STEEL CARS IN THE RAILWAY POST-OFFICE SERVICE

TUESDAY, MARCH 27, 1928

UNITED STATES SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON POST OFFICES AND POST ROADS,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment at 10 o'clock a. m., in the room of the Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads, the Capitol, Senator George H. Moses presiding.

Present: Senators Moses (chairman), McMaster, and Frazier. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. The proponents of the measure, S. 2107, who were not present yesterday afternoon due to lack of information regarding the hearing, are in attendance this morning. Mr. Collins, the committee will hear you and any other witnesses you wish to present. Give your name, address, and occupation, if you please, to the shorthand reporter for the record. STATEMENT BY W. M. COLLINS, PRESIDENT RAILWAY MAIL ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. COLLINS. Mr. Chairman, I appear in behalf of bill S. 2107, representing the railway postal clerks that work in these cars. Our association represents better than 95 per cent of the employeesThe CHAIRMAN. You mean the Railway Mail Service employees? Mr. COLLINS. In our service, the Railway Mail Service. This bill is similar to others that have been proposed in the past, and identical with the bill in the last Congress on the House side except the effective date. That bill was reported by the committee at that time but no action was taken.

The CHAIRMAN. What date did that bill carry, Mr. Collins?

Mr. COLLINS. It carried the year 1928, but it was changed before it was called up on the floor of the House, to 1929, and it came up under a suspension of the rules but no consideration was given it on account of not having a sufficient number to second the motion.

This bill represents the views really of the House Committee on Post Office and Post Roads, which gave considerable attention to the matter at that time.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there a similar bill in the House in this Congress? Mr. COLLINS. There is an identical bill in the House, being H. R. 9678.

The CHAIRMAN. Introduced by whom?

Mr. COLLINS. Introduced by Representative Kelly of Pennsylvania. There is only one slight difference, and that is that the House bill is effective January 1, 1930, while the Senate bill has omitted the

date in January. This bill just says January. That is really the only difference.

We believe that this legislation is necessary, or something similar to it, on account of our past experience. Years ago, of course, steel equipment was not in use to any great extent. Our fatalities and injuries were very high. The first law enacted on the subject was in 1911, which provided that full R. P. O. cars were to be either steel or steel underframe. In 1912 there was an amendment enacted providing that at least 25 per cent of the full R. P. O. cars then in use were to be replaced by steel equipment each year, so that at the end of four years all of the full R. P. O. cars would be all steel. For some reason unknown to me that provision was never carried out. In 1917 another amendment to the law was passed by the Congress. Among other provisions was one to the effect that after July 1, 1917, all cars accepted for service must be all steel or steel underframe. There was an interpretation as to what "accepted for service" It developed that that meant the original acceptance of the car, so that if the car had been in service prior to July 1, 1917, then it complied with that provision of the law. As a result we did not get all the steel cars that we were expecting.

Now, during the period that we have any record prior to the inauguration of the steel-car program the fatalities were much greater than since that time. As an illustration, from 1905 to 1911 there were 105 railway postal clerks killed while on duty and 4,157 injured. Beginning with 1912 we had some steel cars, getting more as the years went by, so that from 1912 to 1927, inclusive, the fatalities dropped to 37 during the 12-year period, and the injuries were 3,855, indicating that the better equipment had some relation to the injuries.

We have through these years of course secured more steel cars, it being rather the general policy of the railroads to adopt steel equipment. But even to-day we have just about one-half the mail cars that are steel cars; out of a total 5,085 mail cars we have 2,539 steel cars, the rest being either steel-underframe, wooden reinforced, or wooden cars.

Now, the present law rates the steel-underframe car the same as a steel car as far as operation is concerned. During the hearings on the House side in the Sixty-ninth Congress contentions were submitted by representatives of the railroads that the Postmaster General had authority under the present law to require all steel cars. That is not the view held by the legal division of the Post Office Department, and for that reason the regulations have not been changed to that effect, although they have been modified.

But we have made some progress because the Post Office Department has issued more strict regulations about the construction and operation of these cars, particularly so during the last year. At the present time I want to say for the railroads that there are many of them buying additional steel cars to comply with this program of the Post Office Department. So that we have in the last year, the fiscal year of 1927, I mean, in our service 16 new steel full R. P. O. cars added and 130 steel apartment R. P. O. cars. And in 1926 there were 3 full steel cars and 114 steel apartment cars. So that we have made that gain in the last two years. But even

yet we have only approximately one-half of the cars all-steel construction.

Now, some contend that the steel-underframe car is as strong as the steel car. I am not an engineer and I can not refute that statement, but I do know that the steel-underframe car does not stand up in case of wreck like a steel car does; and, after all, I think that is the best evidence of the strength of a car.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you familiar with wrecks in which both types of cars figured?

Mr. COLLINS. I have been in some myself. I have seen many others, and have photographs of many such wrecks. There is one photograph here that rather illustrates what the steel car will do. Here is a steel car that hit the tender of an engine in a wreck and the mail car withstood the shock.

The CHAIRMAN. When was that?

Mr. COLLINS. About two years ago.

The CHAIRMAN. On what railroad?

Mr. COLLINS. On the Norfolk & Western.

Here is a photograph

of a wreck of the opposite kind, and that is what happens to a partly wood car.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this a wood reinforced car?

Mr. COLLINS. Yes, sir; a wood reinforced car.

The CHAIRMAN. What were the casualties in this wreck?

Mr. COLLINS. There were no clerks killed but some were injured. The steel cars, you must remember

The CHAIRMAN. Just a minute.

are they?

These are all of the same wreck,

Mr. COLLINS. These three are, I believe.

The CHAIRMAN. The date of this is shown as October 20, 1920. Mr. COLLINS. Well, that is an older one.

The CHAIRMAN. It says Norfolk & Western.

Mr. COLLINS. That was in 1920, I had forgotten that, but it just represents the effect on a steel car. Steel cars of course will not eliminate all fatalities, there is no question about that, because we have clerks killed even in steel cars. There was one killed about the first of this month, which I assume was a steel car because it was on one of the main line railroads in the western part of the country. But the steel car does avoid many fatalities and severe injuries.

During the last year the Post Office Department has issued some modified regulations which will result in eliminating the steel-underframe car from steel trains within the next 2-year period if the program is carried out. And apparently it will be carried out, as the railroads are making an effort to secure additional steel cars. But we will still have the steel-underframe cars on the intermediate trains, and while some persons claim that that is not as great a danger as when on the through main line trains, yet you must remember that these intermediate trains so far as speed is concerned travel in many cases at a higher rate of speed than do the through trains. If anything happens, why, of course, the higher speed will be just as serious on these intermediate trains as if on a trunk-line train. The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by "an intermediate train"? Mr. COLLINS. We have the big trunk-line railroads as we call them which have through trains that are classed as high-speed trains. They have not very many stops, and their rate of speed is not as high

as the train which is considered more or less local, making a number of stops, and then between the stops they travel at a higher rate of speed than many of these through trains do.

Now, I want to say that the most of the railroads seem to be fair in making an effort to get this equipment, while others are not.

We have had a recent investigation of one railroad, and I inspected the cars myself last fall, and I asked for an investigation by the department, and we found that those cars, some of them at least, were built 40 years ago, in the seventies and eighties and rebuilt along about 1915 and 1916, and are the old wooden cars reinforced with steel, some of them rated as steel-underframe. Such a car complies with the law that we now have, and is used in the heavy main-line trains. I think we all have a fair idea of what chance a mail clerk has in such a car if anything happens on the train.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that a full R. P. O. car that you are talking about now?

Mr. COLLINS. Yes, sir; a full car. I have the number of it, and of different cars and the railroads over which it has operated.

Mг. THOм. Senator Moses, might we have that?

The CHAIRMAN. I think you better put that in the record.
Mr. COLLINS. I shall be glad to do so.

(The data referred to by the witness is here made a part of the record, as follows:)

MY DEAR MR. COLLINS: This will acknowledge receipt of your letter of November 1, regarding Pere Marquette mail apartment cars.

The operation of cars by this company was recently made the subject of correspondence, and the superintendent ninth division, Railway Mail Service, reports that the matter was taken up promptly by the chief clerk, and the railway company's division superintendent now advises that the matter of improper operation has been corrected and will be watched very carefully in the future. Other subjects mentioned in your letter will be investigated. Car 422 was built in 1888, rebuilt and reinforced in 1916. Car 423 was built in 1888, rebuilt and reinforced in 1915. Car 424 was built in 1888, rebuilt and reinforced in 1915. Car 427 was built in 1873, rebuilt and reinforced in 1917. Car 429 was built in 1873, rebuilt and reinforced in 1915. Car 431 was built in 1873, rebuilt and reinforced in 1915. Car 436 was built in 1901, rebuilt and reinforced in 1916. Car 437 was built in 1901, rebuilt and reinforced in 1915. Sincerely yours,

E. W. SATTERWHITE, Acting General Superintendent.

DECEMBER 8, 1927.

GENERAL SUPERINTENDENT, RAILWAY MAIL SERVICE,

Washington, D. C.

MY DEAR SIR: Reference is made to your letter of November 2 last quoting a letter received from Mr. W. M. Collins, president of Railway Mail Association regarding the condition of certain Pere Marquette Railroad Co. mail cars. In accordance with instructions in the last paragraph of your letter, above date, an investigation has been made by the assistant division superintendent as to the safety and sanitation of Pere Marquette mail cars, also whether paragraph B,

section 1585, Postal Laws and Regulations is being violated. In making this survey the assistant superintendent rode the mail cars in Grand Rapids and Chicago, Petoskey and Grand Rapids, Saginaw and Grand Rapids, Saginaw and Manistee, Detroit and Grand Rapids, and the Bay City and Detroit lines, also inspected cars in service on Bad Axe and Saginaw, Port Huron and Saginaw, and the Big Rapids and Grand Ledge R. P. O.'s. This extensive investigation was deemed advisable from the fact that clerks on the Grand Rapids and Chicago and Petoskey and Grand Rapids have petitioned the Second Assistant Postmaster General that the company be required to furnish steel mail compartment cars on their lines.

In this connection attention is called to the letter of the acting general superintendent under date of October 29 last, addressed to Mr. Frank H. Alfred, president and general manager of Pere Marquette Railroad Co., in which it was pointed out that the steel underframe mail apartment cars of this company do not meet department specifications as revised December 24, 1925. This office will endeavor in this report to present a complete picture of the Pere Marquette postal car situation in order that you may have all the facts before you to make reply to the letter of Mr. Collins, and take such action as may be deemed advisable with the railroad company. It should be stated here that the question of cleaning cars thoroughly has been taken taken up vigorously with the railroad company as well as needed minor repairs to the cars inspected. I am quoting, in part, letter from Mr. L. E. Mueller manager of mail, baggage, and express traffic for the Pere Marquette Co. on this subject.

"I may assure you that the minor defects complained of in your letter will immediately be corrected, and that a car-cleaning program has been inaugurated so as to clean mail cars at the end of every trip with the exception of a few cars which make an immediate return, such as those operated in trains 3 and 6 between Chicago and Grand Rapids and trains 2 and 7 between Grand Rapids and Chicago, and these cars will be cleaned thoroughly at least once during a round trip. "I believe I have interested our mechanical department to an extent where we will get a good deal better service in the cleaning and maintenance of our cars in the future than we have in the past, and I will consider it a personal favor if any deviation from the policy as established at our conference will be reported to me promptly."

Car 221, mentioned in the letter of Mr. Collins, was inspected en route from Holland to Grand Rapids, November 10, and found to be in need of a thorough cleaning. The deck sash were very dirty, ceiling dingy, a large amount of dust around steam pipes, windows, and over letter cases. Some of the windows loose, also new weather strips needed at doors and windows. Hopper dirty, leaky water pipes in hopper section. As to the safety of this car it can only be stated that the car rides well and appears to be in good repair except for minor matters that have been taken up with the railroad company for correction. Records here show the car built in 1910, later fitted with steel underframe, and ends strengthened. On November 10, the consist of Grand Rapids and Chicago train 3 was

You will please note that while there was only one steel car, No. 221 was outclassed in total weight by three cars. This car returns to Chicago in train 6, and report of consist of that train for November 30 shows 9 cars, 4 steel, 5 steel underframe. Car 221 was the second car from the engine; the combined weight of the cars behind 221 was 801,000 pounds. Records for November 28 and 29 show the mail car fifth from the rear with approximately 450,000 pounds of equipment following. The average speed of these trains between termini is: Train 3, 37 miles; train 6, 38 miles per hour. Train 3 is usually made up of seven cars and train 6 of nine.