on April 30, 1926, showed the following data concerning the Illinois Central system:

All-steel cars, 70; steel underframe, 14; wood, steel reinforced, 71; wood, 18; total, 173.

At the present time the situation is as follows:

All-steel, 78; steel underframe, 17; wood, reinforced, 59; all-wood cars, none; total, 154.

Thus in the comparatively short time since April, 1926, we have entirely eliminated all of the 18 wooden cars and 12 of the steelreinforced cars.

In every instance to-day in which any of the other cars in a train are of steel construction the mail-apartment car is of steel. Likewise every mail apartment car running in main-line trains is a steel

car.

I would like to emphasize the point that Senator McKellar brought up, that on our system in every instance in main-line trains and also in side-line trains where there are any steel cars in the train, the mailapartment car is of steel. That condition exists to-day.

At the present time we are using 17 steel underframe and 33 steel reinforced wooden cars in regular service. The balance of our cars of this type, 26 in number are in reserve. These cars are being operated exclusively in branch-line trains, nearly one-half of which consist of but two cars, the mail-apartment car and a single-wooden coach, and most of the other trains have but three cars. The rapidly diminishing traffic on these branch lines will soon reduce the trains to only two cars where there is any branch train left at all. Every single one of the trains in which steel underframe or steel reinforced wooden cars are run is operated at a loss, and in most cases the situation is being carefully studied with the object of eliminating these trains, either by substitution of motor cars or by motor busses.

Every one of these mail-apartment cars is operated under a 15foot authorization; that is, the department pays for but one-fourth or less of the car, the balance of the car being used for express or baggage or, in a few cases, for passengers.

In every case the mail apartment car is a strong, well-built car, usually much the strongest car in the train.

In many cases, in fact, in most cases, where these cars are used on branch lines, there is only one train on the road, and it runs at a slow speed, making the danger of an accident extremely remote.

As a matter of fact, not a single postal clerk has been seriously injured, much less killed, while serving in any of the trains in which these mail apartment cars are assigned on the entire Illinois Central system for at least 25 years.

Senator McKELLAR. What has been the decrease or increase in deaths on these cars since you put in steel cars on all your through lines; that is, deaths or injuries?

Mr. FAIRFIELD. We have had, as I was going to mention later, only one accident in over 20 years on the entire Illinois Central system, including the Central of Georgia, when a postal clerk was killed, and in that case he was killed in a steel car.

In over 25 years I think it is well over that, but I only went back 25 years-we have not had a single accident which resulted in

the injury, much less the death, of a postal clerk-not a single accident.

Senator MCKELLAR. That is a very fine record.

Mr. FAIRFIELD. Notwithstanding the fact that most of these trains formerly carried two to four times as many cars as they do now, and also in many cases there was double or triple the daily train service that is, where there is only one train a day there were formerly two or three trains a day. Of course that reduction both in the number of cars and especially in the number of trains has tended to further reduce the liability of accident.

I anticipated, in answer to your question, the statement that I am very glad to say that we have had only one accident on the whole system in which a postal clerk was killed, and that occurred in a steel car.

Senator MCKELLAR. Do you remember the facts about that?

Mr. FAIRFIELD. In that case there was a washout caused by a cloudburst and it undermined a bridge and the train when through the bridge. The engine got across, but the steel mail car went down and the other cars piled in. He was killed by being thrown against the racks.

Accordingly, the Illinois Central system feels that this bill is wholly unnecessary from the standpoint of safety to the postal clerks and is certainly not needed from any other standpoint. On the contrary, it would be requiring the expenditure of a very large sum of moneySenator MCKELLAR. What would it cost your system?

Mr. FAIRFIELD. It would cost about $1,750,000-a million and three-quarters, in other words, on our line.

I notice that Mr. Schardt said his improved cars cost $21,000 each, but we just got six which cost us $26,500 each.

(Witness excused.)

Mг. THOм. Before presenting the next witness, Mr. Chairman, I have been requested by the Denver & Rio Grande Western to file a memorandum with you. The original of it, I think, has already been sent you; so I will just file these extra copies for the convenience of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Give one to the stenographer for the record.

(The memorandum referred to and submitted by Mr. Thom on behalf of the Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad Co. is as follows:)

MEMORANDUM OF THE DENVER & RIO GRANDE WESTERN RAILROAD Co., RELATIVE TO SENATE BILL 2107, RELATING TO STEEL EQUIPMENT IN RAILWAY TRAINS

The following bill (S. 2107) has been introduced by Senator Dale in the Senate at the present session of Congress (70th Cong., 1st sess.):

66

A bill to provide for steel cars in the railway post-office service provides that after January, 1930, all cars or parts of cars, except as thereinafter provided, used for railway post-office service shall be of steel construction and of such style, length, and character, and furnished in such manner as shall be required by the Postmaster General; that railroad companies shall place railway post-office cars in stations for use in advance distribution before the departure of trains at such time as may be ordered by the Postmaster General; provided that after January, 1930, no apartment railway post-office car be operated by any independent shortline railroad in trains in which any other steel or steel underframe equipment is operated."

This memorandum is filed by the Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad Co. (herein called the Denver company) in order to present its peculiar situation before the Senate committee in charge of this bill.

There is attached hereto a small map showing the lines of railroad of the Denver company, the legend thereon indicating whether the lines are standard gauge or narrow gauge. In the States of Colorado and New Mexico the Denver company operates about 800 miles of narrow gauge (3 feet) railroad. In addition thereto, the Rio Grande Southern Railroad Co. (a majority of whose stock is owned by the Denver company) owns and operates about 170 miles of narrowgauge track which connects with the narrow-gauge lines of the Denver company. This Rio Grande Southern track is indicated in red on the attached map. This memorandum is filed in behalf of the Rio Grande Southern as well as of the Denver company.

NARROW-GAUGE LINES

These narrow-gauge lines are, generally speaking, located in a mountainous section of the country and were largely constructed to serve mining districts which have fallen into decay. In 1927 the narrow-gauge lines of the Denver company were operated at a deficit of $928,811, and the entire Rio Grande Southern was operated at a deficit of $89,756. Neither of these figures make any allowance for return on investment. The gross earnings per passenger train-mile are regularly diminishing, and we are now receiving a very low revenue per train-mile. The furnishing of steel equipment would not in any way increase our revenues. These narrow-gauge lines furnish the only railroad transportation facilities for a considerable part of the State of Colorado and operation thereof must be maintained if possible. The imposition upon them of the heavy expense incident to provision of specially constructed narrow-gauge steel or steel underframe equipment would be, we submit, totally unjustified.

All narrow-gauge equipment in active service has been completely overhauled within the past three years. The cars have been lowered an average of 6 inches and equipped with extended side roller bearings, and are being maintained in first-class condition. Track has been materially improved through the laying of heavier rail and placing of additional ballast, strengthening of bridges, etc., all of which has reduced to a minimum possibility of accident. We have no record

of a serious accident involving a passenger train on our narrow-gauge lines during the past three years, and considering the ruling 4 per cent grades and 24-degree curvature, we believe that wooden equipment well maintained is safer, moving at a slow speed, than the heavier steel equipment; likewise as safe as, or safer than, steel equipment operated on the standard-gauge lines under high speed. This is especially true because the heavy steel equipment would have a higher center of gravity than wooden equipment, which would increase the tendency of these cars to turn over or leave the track on the sharp curves and 3-foot gauge track. The recent lowering of cars was to reduce this very danger, and we do not believe it advisable to restore a hazard just removed. Trains on the so-called main line of the narrow-gauge territory between Alamosa and Durango, and Salida and Montrose, seldom carry more than six cars, usually less. The average speed of our narrow-gauge trains does not exceed 20 miles per hour compared with a speed up to 40 miles per hour on standard-gauge lines. Our wage contracts with our employees recognize this situation by compensating passenger-train crews on the narrow-gauge lines on the basis of a lower rate of speed than is used on broadgauge lines. In the remaining narrow-gauge territory mixed trains are operated consisting of but few freight cars with a combination car on the rear end, the small amount of business not requiring regular passenger service.

STANDARD GAUGE BRANCH LINES

On its standard gauge main line (Denver through Pueblo to Salt Lake City and Ogden) the Denver Company operates only all steel equipment, but on its standard gauge branch lines it operates certain steel underframe equipment, and on one short branch line (about 73 miles) all wooden equipment. Therefore, so far as its standard gauge main line is concerned, the proposed legislation would not affect it. But Senate bill 2107 seems to require all steel cars after January, 1930. These branch lines have light traffic, trains are short (often containing not more than two or three cars) and operate at comparatively slow speed. It is submitted that steel underframe cars are as adequate and safe for such service as are all steel cars and they are probably more so, inasmuch as the passenger cars (not covered by the bill) operated on these branch lines are not all steel. These standard gauge branch lines are not operated at a profit.

CONCLUSION

It is respectfully submitted that if any legislation on the subject is enacted, it should:

(a) Expressly except all narrow-gauge lines of railroad; and

(b) Expressly permit steel-underframe cars upon branch lines of railroad. To this end the following is proposed as an amendment of the proviso at the end of S. B. 2107, as introduced, the changes in language being underscored:

“Provided, That after January, 1930, no apartment railway post-office car of other than steel or steel underframe construction may be operated by any independent short-line railroad, or on any branch line of any railroad, in trains in which any other steel or steel underframe equipment is operated; and provided further, that nothing herein shall apply to narrow-gauge lines of railroad." Dated February 21, 1928.

STATE OF COLORADO,

DENVER & RIO GRANDE WESTERN RAILROAD Co., By J. S. PYEATT, President.

City and County of Denver, 88:

J. S. Pyeatt, being first duly sworn, on his oath deposes and says that he is the president of the Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad Company; that he has read the foregoing statement and knows the contents thereof and that the facts therein stated are true to the best of his knowledge and belief.

J. S. PYEATT. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 21st day of February, 1928. [SEAL.] MARIE E. TILLEY, Notary Public.

My commission expires May 21, 1929. Senator MCMASTER. Is some one going to explain the different types of cars?

Mr. THOм. Yes, Senator.

Senator McMASTER. I think the sooner we hear that witness the better. You might put that witness on now.

Mг. THOм. Except that I have a witness, first, for the Denver & Rio Grande Western, Mr. C. W. Weigel, manager of mail traffic.

STATEMENT OF C. W. WEIGEL, MANAGER, MAIL TRAFFIC, DenVER & RIO GRANDE WESTERN RAILWAY

Mr. WEIGEL. Mr. Chairman and Senators, commenting on Senate bill 2107, a bill appertaining to all steel railway postal cars, and so forth, the adoption of this legislative act would, in several respects, materially affect the Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad, particularly on two branch lines, and vitally so on all narrowgauge lines, some 900 miles, operated by this company.

On our standard gauge lines Denver, Colo., to Ogden, Utah, also Denver to Alamosa, which we term main lines we operate all steel trains exclusively, hence would not bring about any changes.

On two standard-gauge branch lines where curvatures is not excessive, grade practically negligible, train speed of about 25 miles per hour we are required to operate three railway postal cars, two of which are of steel underframe construction, the other being what is known as a reinforced car. The passenger trains, there being only one operated in each direction daily, consist of but three cars, 1 R. P. O. apartment, 1 baggage car, and 1 coach, in each train. Both of these branch line trains are operated at a material loss and should we be required to substitute, in the allotted time, all steel cars for the class of cars now being operated, at an approximate expenditure

of $100,000 it would, in all probability, have a material bearing as to our future operating such passenger trains. This in view of continual decrease in train revenue: We have during past several months already withdrawn one branch line train where in a postal was part of consist.

I might say we have also withdrawn six other branch line passenger trains.

As to our narrow-gauge lines, this brings about an entire different situation from an operating standpoint.

Located in a rough, mountainous district with the necessarily maximum curvature, in many instances reaching as high as 24°, and 4 per cent grades being quite common: Narrow-gauge tracks being but 3 feet in width, this as compared to 4 feet 9 inches in use on standard-gauge lines, a different condition exists and special equipment suitable for such operation is obvious.

Senator MCKELLAR. How many miles of such narrow-gauge lines have you?

Mr. WEIGEL. Something over 900.

These narrow-gauge lines serve a considerable portion of the mountainous district of Colorado, as well as New Mexico. Its construction naturally required the following in contour of many mountain ranges, this, in order to permit passing from lower to higher levels and vice versa in crossing from one side of a mountain to similar districts on the opposite side: At times we are required to ascend to altitudes of ten and eleven thousand feet, obviously it causes these lines to wind in and out, around and around precipitous cliffs and mountain sides before reaching what is termed "The Pass." As an illustration I might cite instances where the line of track passes a given point several times, each time at a greater elevation in its journey up and down the mountain.

Our experience has been, in order to operate a railroad as described, specially built light engines; and with low center of gravity, light weight, narrow and short length cars, respectively, become quite necessary. The sharp curves restrict the use of cars to not exceed 42 to 45 feet in length (this as compared to 70 and 80 foot lengths in use on standard gauge trains). With very light trains and a speed of about 20 miles per hour, slowing down on maximum curves we are satisfied the height of efficiency and practical operation has resulted.

Our narrow-gauge trains are of necessity wooden construction and of the seven railway postal cars required in this class of service, five are standardized as it were, reinforced as per requirement and are what we term "reinforced cars," the other two being all wood construction.

For the year ending December 31, 1927, the narrow-gauge lines of the Denver & Rio Grande system were operated at a loss of approximately $1,000,000, and if required to provide all steel, specially built railway postal cars at an approximate cost of $200,000, I am frank to say it would seriously jeopardize the future operation of passenger trains in several districts now served.

In conclusion I will say that during the past 10 years to my personal knowledge we have not had a passenger train accident, either on standard-gauge branch lines or narrow-gauge lines, wherein a postal employee was injured fatally or otherwise.