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that would be involved if the Hart bill would be superimposed on top of existing law?

Is there any unification planned under the Hart bill that would, with full agreement of the Federal Government and the 50 States, standardize Federal and State laws to facilitate commerce between States?

I have studied your bill carefully as introduced by you in January (some of which I must ask for further interpretation later to gain proper understanding), but my immediate question is-Have you and your committee revised the bill's language to bring it up to date with revisions changes and additions that now appear proper from your viewpoint from testimony advanced thus far in these hearings?

If such revision is thus far merely annotated for later change before the bill is reviewed further, will the proposed rewrite be made available for review and when? Are you in a position now to discuss the changes that will be rewritten into the Hart bill?

I do now want to hand the committee for visual aid in your study, and after study, for your benefit in discussions with the full committee, three samples of tin cans. Each of these samples is rigidly accurate for the purpose produced-it shows the different heights of three cans of the same circumferential size that would be required to pack, under Government standards of fill, an exact 1 pound of food of three different canned foods. The labels on the cans show the specific products and the specific gravity of each. May we agree that any legislation which aims at an exact size of a can of food in exact ounces and even pounds would completely demoralize the canned food business and increase costs to the serious disadvantage of the consumer's pocketbook.

In other respects concerning your bill, and with pure reference to the canned foods business, do you not find an already existing-and voluntary on the part of the canners-system with all phases of your proposed bill generally met by the food canners as to labeling-of net contents as to labeling of the definition of the canned food-as to the label vignette depicting the actual food in the can-as to labeling of the number of servings, or count-as to labeling of the ingredients.

Closing: In our company-as well as in the food canning business generally-we have expanded our production and sales of canned vegetables very substantially in the past 10 years-and look forward, with the continued assistance of a friendly Government, to continued

progress.

We as a company are strong exponents for the free enterprise system-and trust that no legislation will be enacted which will remove individual and honest incentive programs, nor legislation be passed that will react to retard free and ethical competition in the market places.

Let it not be said-and God forbid that we get an image of-that we as food canners are against the purposes of your bill. We support as canners the very purposes your bill aims at-protection of the consumer--and depart from you only in that we feel existing law already well protects the consumer's interest.

In closing, we are proud of the business we are in-food canners. We accept our full responsibility to our consumers and with the helping hand of a friendly Government we will, with God's help, con

tinue to serve our growing consumer population well and be a strong influence on our country's need for an expanded economy.

Thank you, Senator Hart, and your committee for your attention. Senator HART. Thank you very much, Mr. Clarkson. I can understand now why our committee staff member was struck by your presentation in Chicago.

Mr. CLARKSON. I want to show you these cans because the others have described them in inches but never the visual, actual can itself, and I believe these cans will be very helpful to show and, if I may, I will bring them right to you, and I will bring these letters.

That are all three cans are a 1-pound can. In order to hold three different vegetables of a pound each-in other words, we would depart from the standard can size nomenclature of today.

Senator HART. Are these the letters which you furnished to be made a part of the file?

Mr. CLARKSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. CHUMBRIS. Mr. Clarkson, as a manufacturer, you are familiar with the costs in retooling. As I understand it, in retooling, where would the greater cost be, in the circumference or the raising of the height?

Mr. CLARKSON. Being no expert, I can speak freely. I would say this: You have to start further back than that. First, a closing machine is automatic to a specific design. In other words, it has to do its job effectively to an exact closing measurement or there would be no canned food business. Therefore, the impact on the canner would be in additional plant space, ground, more equipment, and there are your real costs--because new can sizes means more production linesmore land-more investment.

Then you get into this, your can manufacturer, there I just do not know, but the can manufacturer would probably have much the same need as the canner, he would have to start adding additional equipment. He would have the same thing as the canner.

As far as tin goes, tin is the same per pound. Now you would be getting a lot of other things, different cartons, different pallet sizes, etc.

Labels would have to be redesigned, cartons would have to be redesigned, price sheets would have to show differences. I hope that is helpful.

I am kind of proud of this stool. Let me just show you this. It won't stand on one leg, it won't stand on two legs no matter which legs they are. It can be the fine, friendly Government and the greatest distribution system in the world. If you have no cannery the stool is going to fall. No matter what your two legs are, the stool will not function without three legs.

But when you put all three legs together you have a wonderful business or a wonderful stool. It will do its job.

Senator HART. Thank you very much. Mr. Cohen, do you have any questions?

Mr. COHEN. No questions.

Senator HART. Do you have any other questions, Mr. Chumbris? Mr. CHUMBRIS. No, I have no further questions.

Mr. RAITT. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. CHUMBRIS. I think you put a lot of time into this statement.

Senator HART. Very clearly. We are very appreciative of your interest and your willingness to come.

Mr. CLARKSON. I would like to say in any way my company or myself as an individual can be of any help to your committee that we are ready to devote the necessary time and thought to that help. Thank you.

Senator HART. The time and effort you have already put in confirm that, I am sure, sir.

Mr. CLARKSON. Thank you, sir.

Senator HART. Before closing, may I add also to the files of the committee a number of letters that were delivered to the subcommittee this morning by the Senator from Connecticut, Senator Ribicoff.

Each of these letters was received following his testimony the opening day of this series of hearings, and I think may reflect the interest and concern of consumers across the country in the discussions we are having here.

(The letters referred to may be found in the files of the subcommittee.)

Senator HART. As I indicated, this concludes the testimony for today. The additional days for hearings in April will be announced. We stand adjourned.

(Whereupon, at 4:20 p.m., the hearing was adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.)

EXHIBITS AND APPENDIX

[From the Washington (D.C.) Evening Star, Mar. 5, 1963]

THE ORIGINAL COMPUTER

Somewhere in that head, among the bobbypins, the hairdo, the perfume, and the problems, there is a thing that makes calculations and decisions. This tricky little thinking center is the oldest instrument of progress in the human race; it is never satisfied with today's cut of meat or cut of skirt. Day in and day out, moment by moment over the years, this feminine computer is concerned with one thing above all others: Value.

And the value of many brands is often hard to find in today's supermarket. Watch our heroine, the American housewife, as she enters.

The modern grocery outlet is a thing of modernistic splendor. Broad aisles invite her, departmentalized shelves beckon. In the surgery-white glare of fluorescents, thousands of items seek her attention. Order seems to prevail. But the goddess of the marketplace knows differently. She's a veteran propeller of a shopping cart and, therefore, a realist.

She is at once suspicious and vulnerable; coldly calculating and yet ready to be enchanted. Above all, she knows that order does not always prevail, and that price and value of some manufacturers' products at times are hard to determine.

OFF WHAT?

Our girl is in the Wonderful World of Off. Two Cents Off, Three Cents Off, Six Cents Off, Send in The Label With One Dollar and Get, Enter This Contest and Win A, The Greatest Prizes of All, 50 Extra Stamps, Complete This Jingle ***.

This is why a strange change comes over a woman in a store. The soft glow in the eye is replaced by a steely financial glint; the graceful walk becomes a panther's stride among the bargains.

A woman in a store is a mechanism, a prowling computer. Mentally she is a memory bank, calculating the variables, thousands of little lights flicking over the great question of her life-last week that package was 43 cents, now it's only 39; and right beside it is this new brand-slightly larger-for 41 cents.

This is why she pinches and prods and shakes things, listens to cans and boxes. She is mentally X-raying the interior of the package. The American housewife is her own final bureau of standards.

THE WIZARDS OF OFF

At first the whole epic struggle seems no contest. On one side we have this frail creature. On the other side we have her surrounded by some 20,000 square feet of branded canned goods, branded dry groceries, nonfoods, dairy products, and hosts of other items. In the background are the unseen masses of manufacturers trying to bewitch and bedazzle her into buying.

But when our girl starts down the aisle, her defenses are massive. Jungletrained, her bargain-hunter's senses razor-sharp for the sound of a dropping price, our girl is the easy winner almost every time. She is accustomed to the merchandising circus.

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