Mr. MUMFORD. That would be my concept. The Acting Chairman for a period of time of the Commission is here, Mr. Burkhardt, and can speak to that better than I can. But that would be roughly my concept of the role of the Commission.

Mr. MEEDS. Is there not a Federal Library Committee?

Mr. MUMFORD. Yes, sir; there is such a group.

Mr. MEEDS. What is its function, sir?

Mr. MUMFORD. The purpose of this group, which is made up of representatives of the different departments of the Federal Government, the national libraries, and the independent agencies on a rotating basis, is to study problems common to Federal libraries, to seek ways of improving their services, and to make them more effective in helping their respective agencies more fully to carry out their missions. The Federal Library Committee has no statutory authority. It was established by the Library of Congress in cooperation with the Bureau of the Budget and its members have been designated by the Secretaries of the Departments and the heads of the agencies that are represented on the Committee.

Mr. MEEDS. It would have no effect on private agencies, public libraries outside of the Federal Government?

Mr. MUMFORD. It would affect those libraries only to the extent that Federal libraries do serve the private sector. But the Committee certainly has no jurisdiction or authority to be looking at the problems of libraries from jurisdictions outside the Federal Government.

Mr. MEEDS. Could this function be handled by an advisory committee to the Library of Congress?

Mr. MUMFORD. I don't think it would achieve quite the same purpose.

Mr. MEEDS. Why not, sir?

Mr. MUMFORD. Actually the Library of Congress has no charter or authority to undertake to solve, say, the problems of public or college and university libraries. We do cooperate, of course. We provide many services to libraries throughout the country, but we do not have the responsibility of undertaking to solve all of the big problems of libraries throughout the country.

Mr. MEEDS. Let's assume that the bill were passed, a commission appointed, and it began to function and made some plans with regard to long-range development of public libraries in the United States. How would you envision that it could implement these plans, what power does the Commission have?

Mr. MUMFORD. The Commission would be making recommendations to the President and to the Congress. It is possible that some legislation might result from the recommendations of the Commission. I would not anticipate that the Commission would undertake to impose its will upon other libraries, but I think it would receive the hearty cooperation of other libraries in undertaking a solution to common problems that are national in scope.

Mr. MEEDS. Would you envision in doing this it would cooperate with the people who are administering the Library Services Agency? Mr. MUMFORD. Yes, indeed, I would think the Commission would work very closely with the people in the Office of Education who are responsible for the administration of library and other educational programs.

Mr. MEEDS. And the people who are administering title II of ESCA and other library functions?

Mr. MUMFORD. I would certainly think so, Mr. Meeds.

Mr. MEEDS. Is this how you feel it would largely implement-not entirely-but one way it could implement its plans and suggestions? Mr. MUMFORD. Yes.

Mr. MEEDS. Thank you.

Mr. BRADEMAS. In view of the fact that Mr. Meeds and Mr. Mumford have been discussing the role, during their colloquy, of the Federal Library Committee, I would like to insert at this point in the record the statement of Paul Howard, Executive Secretary of the Federal Library Committee, submitted for the subcommittee.

(The statement referred to follows:)

STATEMENT OF PAUL HOWARD, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, FEDERAL LIBRARY

COMMITTEE

The Federal Library Committee is an inter-agency committee of the Federal Government, established under the auspices of the Bureau of the Budget and the Library of Congress. It consists of representatives of the three national libaries, cabinet agencies, and six representatives of independent agencies of the Government, (the latter being elected for two year terms on a rotating basis.) The functions of the Committee as outlined in the Federal Register for July 3, 1965, are:

(1) Consider policies and problems relating to Federal libraries; (2) Evaluate existing Federal library programs and resources; (3) Determine priorities among library issues requiring attention; (4) Examine the organization and policies for acquiring, preserving, and making information available; (5) Study the need for and potential of technological innovation in library practices; (6) Study Library budgeting and staffing problems, including the recruiting, education, training, and remuneration of librarians.

Within these areas the Committee recommends actions to improve Federal library service through better utilization; more effective planning, development, and operation; and exchange of experience, skill, and resources.

As part of its responsibility, the Committee reviewed the report of the National Advisory Commission on Libraries and in consequence adopted the following resolution:

Whereas the Federal Library Committee is organized for the purpose of considering policies and problems relating to Federal libraries and to recommend actions to improve Federal library service, and

Whereas the National Advisory Commission on Libraries has reported to the President of the United States and recommended actions for the improvement of library service in the United States, and

Whereas these recommendations, if implemented, will result in improvement of library service to the Federal Government and to the Nation generally: Now, therefore be it

Resolved, That the Federal Library Committee does hereby endorse and support the recommendations of the National Advisory Commission on Libraries: That it be declared National Policy, enunciated by the President and enacted into law by the Congress that the American people should be provided with library and information services adequate to their needs, and that the Federal Government, in collaboration with State and local governments and private agencies, should exercise leadership in assuring the provision of such services; and finally, be it

Resolved, That the Federal Library Committee endorses as a first step in implementing this policy the establishment of a National Commission on Libraries and Information Science to report to the President and the Congress as a permanent Federal agency.

The operating agencies of the Federal Government are increasingly dependent upon information and information services. Each program which tends to strengthen and to coordinate such services tends to strengthen the Government itself. For this reason, the Federal Library Committee wishes to support the establishment of a National Commission on Libraries and Information Science

and would expect to work closely with the Commission in securing Federal library cooperation in its programs. In this respect, Federal libraries have much to contribute and much to gain.

The collections of Federal libraries constitute an important resource for providing information needed in daily operation of the Government, and in the conduct of agency research programs. Inter-library lending, inter-agency reference assistance, cooperative cataloging, literature searching, and other forms of cooperation are essential to full and efficient use of this resource. Increasingly, a community of interest has developed among Federal and nonFederal library users. Federal libraries support those missions of their agencies that relate to non-Governmental groups by extending their library services to other libraries, research institutions, and the general public.

A National Commission will, in our opinion, assist the Federal Library Committee in achieving its objectives by including Federal libraries in its studies, surveys and analyses of the library and informational needs of the Nation. The Committee has, over a period of years, learned much about Federal library programs, policies and problems. Yet, there is much more to be done to gather the basic information upon which overall planning must be based. Although the Committee has had considerable success in helping to improve library service to the Government, it needs help in gathering such basic information as locating and listing all Federal libraries, determining the nature and amount of Federal library resources, determining nature of agency needs for library and information services. It also needs help in developing networks and cooperative programs among Federal libraries and between Federal libraries and other segments of the National library community.

It is our belief that the demands for library and information services are so great and so universal that we can no longer afford haphazard uncoordinated growth, but must develop cooperative programs that are national in scope and which include all types of libraries and information services. A National Commission is essential to such development.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Mr. Gaydos?

Mr. GAYDOS. I have no questions.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Mr. Mumford, I just have one other question to put to you, which in part anticipates some subsequent testimony. I think we are going to hear shortly from a witness who will recommend that some of the proposed authority for the National Commission to provide technical assistance and to encourage research and development be removed from the bill to leave the Commission principally as an advisory body, thus significantly limiting the authority that is proposed in the bill. Do you have any comment on that?

Mr. MUMFORD. I would view the primary role of the Commission as a planning and coordinating agency.

I think it should also be authorized to encourage and promote research as outlined in H.R. 8839. The Commission would not necessarily carry on the research itself, although it might well do some studies. As to the matter of technical assistance, I feel hardly qualified to comment on that. I think there might be occasions when it would be desirable for the Commission to have the authority to make a grant for a particular study that needed to be done and that no one else was undertaking.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you very much, indeed, Mr. Mumford. We appreciate your appearing before us today.

Mr. MUMFORD. Thank you.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Our next witness is Mr. Grant Venn, the Associate. Commissioner of Education for Adult, Vocational, and Library Programs in the Office of Education in the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

Mr. Venn, we are very pleased to have you here this morning, and please go ahead.

STATEMENT OF GRANT VENN, ASSOCIATE COMMISSIONER FOR ADULT, VOCATIONAL, AND LIBRARY PROGRAMS, OFFICE OF EDUCATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE

Mr. VENN. I would like to read my statement.

I am pleased to appear today to testify on H.R. 8839, the proposed creation of a National Commission on Libraries and Information Science. This bill affirms the essential role of libraries in serving the Nation's educational needs. It enunciates a national policy of Federal cooperation with State and local governments and with public and private agencies to assure the best use of the Nation's libraries recognized by the National Advisory Commission on Libraries. This Commission subsequently recommended the "establishment of a National Commission on Libraries and Information Science as a continuing Federal planning agency."

Current needs of the American library community are many and diverse. From the postwar period to the present, a variety of legistive programs have been endorsed by the Congress to support libraries of all kinds: school, public, college, and research libraries. This recognition in recent decades that libraries represent a national education resource and, therefore, are appropriate recipients of Federal support follows a long tradition, dating back to 1800, of Federal support for the libraries of the Federal Establishment; a tradition reflected in the creation of some of the finest libraries in the worldthe Library of Congress, the National Library of Medicine, and others.

This record of Federal support for the Nation's libraries has been particularly crucial in a time of a dramatic increase in knowledge and materials: books, monographs, journals, and multimedia materials. Together with the expansion of library programs, many of them geared to newly identified clienteles such as the disadvantaged, the tremendous increase in recorded knowledge has led to serious administrative problems for libraries everywhere.

We feel that the proposed National Commission would serve a number of useful purposes directed toward alleviating the difficulties of libraries across the country. As it now stands, the bill would establish a National Commission carrying out a broad scope of functions: advisory, planning and evaluation, and operational. For reasons which I shall delineate, we would hope that, in operation, the Commission would strongly emphasize its advisory functions, as these appear to use to be most crucially needed.

First of all, I think it should be noted that a number of the Commission's functions proposed in H.R. 8839 are already being carried out by a range of Federal programs related to library needs. For example, the Commission would be directed to "promote research and development activities."

It is not clear precisely how the Commission would be expected to promote such activities without the resources to make contracts in support of research and development. However, even if the Commission had the resources, we wonder if it wouldn't merely represent another layer on top of existing research and development activities undertaken by the Office of Education, the National Library of

Medicine, the National Science Foundation, and other Federal agencies.

Research and development is also supported by State governments and by private foundations, such as the Council on Library Resources. Perhaps a more effective role for the Commission would be to coordinate ongoing research programs at the Federal, State, and local levels. The difficulty in expecting this Commission to carry out research activities can be dramatized by an example of the cost of research studies. Recently, the Office of Education contributed to a research project designed to evaluate the utility of book and media examination centers for school librarians and school faculties. The first phase of a multiphase project is costing a total of $291,637, of which the Office of Education is providing $227,767-slightly less than one-half of the appropriation authorized for the Commission's operations. Therefore, promoting research, if that is to mean giving grants and contracts, would be far beyond the Commission's scope. At any rate, it would appear to mean a duplication of authority already in existence.

It should be noted, too, that the Commission's planning function may be a duplication of those now being carried out in the operation of various Federal library programs. Congress has already given the mandate to the Office of Education for its basic mission of promoting "the cause of education," which assuredly includes libraries. The conduct of studies and surveys, evaluation of programs, development of planning units, and provision of technical assistance are presently a part of the responsibilities of programs administered by the Office of Education and of the administration of major libraries supported entirely by the Federal Government, such as the Library of Congress and the National Library of Medicine. Limited funds have sometimes seriously restricted our ability to carry out these functions fully. Most executive agencies with major responsibilities for the support of libraries or information science have provided for planning components. I might add we have not been funded to do the kind of planning that I think is needed and envisioned by the existing legislation.

In view of this, we question the advisability of vesting in the proposed Commission major planning responsibilities, divorced as they would be from any power to execute the overall plans it might design. We feel that the Commission's involvement in planning, both in the area of program development and research, would best be oriented toward coordinating the planning now going on at Federal, State, and local levels, leaving to the Federal agencies and to the State and local levels specific authority to plan their own programs.

As it now stands, it appears that the Commission could find itself in the awkward position of evolving broad plans which would not only never be implemented, but would be totally divorced from the operating programs.

We are concerned, then, that some of the responsibilities proposed for the Commission might prove to be beyond its powers to implement, and would duplicate responsibilities presently vested in existing Federal and other programs. We feel that the Commission would be most usefully seen as a coordinating and advisory body, particularly as it would relate to operating Federal programs of library support. Of all the categories of responsibilities assigned by this bill to the proposed Commission, only the advisory and coordinating responsibilities