executive training program which is for the top-level people and they run a full range of seminars covering the departmental programs, management styles, and the whole range of industrial relations. We have two contracts that we administer. We train our supervisors. We train our executives so that they know how to administer these contracts, that are an important part of our everyday life. We have EEO training to make sure that employees and supervisors understand the Government's equal employment opportunity program. We have training on self-improvement. We provide some outside university training opportunities for people who want to go at night in order to better enhance their professional opportunities and activity. We have clerical training, a whole range of clerical training, for skill upgrading and provide opportunities for those individuals to improve and move on up. We have a whole range of things from the professional to the technical to the clerical and stenographic.

REGIONAL STAFF

Mr. FLOOD. Back to the regional setup again. What about the regional staff. Is that adequate? Do you have enough people at the regional level? Do you have the right kind of people?

Mr. BURDETSKY. That is always a problem. One of our current concerns is the fact that we have shifted quite radically in the whole manner in which we carry out our business. Years ago we administered the entire MDTA program with 10,000 individual categorical-type programs. Now we have moved to a system where the local elected officials are running the programs and it is a different kind of an oversight, a different kind of monitoring.

Mr. FLOOD. That is one thing we get a lot of criticism on. Do your people at the regional level have an appreciation for the way in which State and local governments operate? That is one of the big criticisms we get.

Mr. BURDETSKY. We have been in the State and local business for 40 years and longer with the Employment Security SystemMr. FLOOD. Why do we get this criticism?

Mr. BURDETSKY. There are new roles being fashioned for the local people in the manpower business for us and I think it will take a time. before we all finally get this total system worked out. I don't think that there are really any serious problems. There are occasional confrontations, occasional differences of opinion, but I think all in all it has started to work out pretty well.

TITLE IX OF THE OLDER AMERICANS ACT

Mr. FLOOD. How do you monitor title IX of the Older Americans Act, the employment program, and again, why don't your regional offices get involved in the title IX program? Why not?

Mr. HEWITT. Essentially because we deal with national contractors who spread that program around. It comes out of the national program's shop and the contract monitoring on those five or six major entities is done out of that organization, here in our national office, rather than by our field establishment who have their own contractual relationships.

Mr. BURDETSKY. They do have people in the national programs office that do monitor these contracts. I think looking at it in perspectivewe are talking about 13,000 as opposed to 1,300,000 that are being trained through just the title I type programs-there is a fantastic. difference in scope and we think we can handle these fairly well from the national level with occasional assistance from the regional offices. They do assist us from time to time on these.

BUREAU OF APPRENTICESHIP AND TRAINING

Mr. FLOOD. By the way, did you fill all of those 75 jobs we gave you last year for the Bureau of Apprenticeship?

Mr. BURDETSKY. I am delighted to say we not only have filled them but we had a wonderful training session last week at which I spoke and lauded them for their fine work.

Mr. FLOOD. Are you making any efforts to get the CETA prime sponsors involved in the apprenticeship system?

Mr. BURDETSKY. Yes, sir. We have just put out a technical assistance guide for a CETA prime sponsor and for our own staff to use in trying to determine ways in which they can utilize the apprenticeship system for training, to help work in support, and there are a number of arrangements that have already been worked out. One of the things we have done with this new group that just came in 2 weeks ago for training is to thoroughly brief them on CETA and the possibilities and potentialities that it offers to the apprenticeship system and this is something we expect them to go back and get busy on.

REORGANIZATION OF EMPLOYMENT SERVICE

Mr. FLOOD. What is the current status of your internal reorganization in the employment service? Is that dead?

Mr. BURDETSKY. No, sir, it is not dead. We are in consultation with our local union right now as prescribed within the context of our contractual arrangement. It is alive, in other words, discussions are underway. The contract discusses consultation on organization. We negotiate on adverse effect on employees in the bargaining unit. That will be part of the process. So it is really going forward.

Mr. FLOOD. You certainly didn't get carried away with that one.

"SERVICES OF OTHER AGENCIES"

Now, you want $1,257,000 for what you call "services of other agencies." What is that for?

Mr. ZUCK. That money, Mr. Chairman, finances the unemployment insurance research and training projects as stipulated under Public Law 91-373.

REDUCTION IN POSITIONS

Mr. FLOOD. On page 4 of your justifications you show a decrease of $1.3 million "to provide for full-year cost of permanent position reductions in 1976." What in the world is that all about?

Mr. Zuck. In the 1976 appropriation, Mr. Chairman, there was a reduction of 170 positions. Your committee restored 100 of the requested reductions. Seventy are still being maintained for a major portion of 1976. They will all be off in 1977 and so this $1.3 million represents that share of the reduction to occur in 1977.

Mr. FLOOD. All right.
Mr. Michel?

Mr. MICHEL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

WITHIN-GRADE PROMOTION COSTS

Among this increase is $511,000 for within-grade promotion costs. How many promotions are involved here?

Mr. BURDETSKY. The within-grade promotions system is an automatic kind of salary increase. The calculations are based on person-byperson analysis of on-board employees.

Mr. MICHEL. Would it touch every type of person in the Depart

ment?

Mr. BURDETSKY. It doesn't touch me.

Mr. MICHEL. That wasn't intended to be a leading question.

Mr. BURDETSKY. About 50 percent, sir.

Mr. MICHEL. What would be the average percentage increase in salary involved in these promotions?

Mr. BURDETSKY. We can average that out.

Mr. MICHEL. Is it the normal within-grade civil service?

Mr. BURDETSKY. Yes, sir, it is.

Mr. MICHEL. Would you spell that out a little bit in your response, please.

[The information follows:]

WITHIN-GRADES

Within-grades are periodic increases in salary based on satisfactory performance at the employee's present grade level. The rates of pay for the Department are fixed in accordance with the salary schedule of the Classification Act which are controlled and regulated by the U.S. Civil Service Commission. The increases are granted to employees in grades below GS-18.

Approximately 1.6-percent increase in salary is involved for within-grade promotions costs for fiscal year 1977.

TRAVEL COST INCREASE

Mr. MICHEL. The increase in travel cost, the $1.2 million, represents an increase of 25 percent the way we have it calculated here. Is that all due to increased allowances per mileage and per diem, or are there some actual increases in travel included as well?

Mr. BURDETSK. These are increases in travel costs and per diem costs. Last year when travel costs increased, the 1976 budget had already been submitted. We had to absorb the increased costs in 1976. In 1977, we are asking to go back up to the original level that we planned for 1976.

CONFERENCES AND CONVENTIONS

Mr. MICHEL. How about for conferences and conventions, any big increase here?

Mr. BURDETSKY. No, sir. I am very tough on conferences and con

ventions.

Mr. PUGH. That number remains the same in both years, sir.
Mr. MICHEL. OK.

PERSONNEL LEVELS

Now, last year you budgeted a reduction in personnel which was later or subsequently restored in the appropriation bill, and then for fiscal 1977 I guess you are really budgeting a continuation of the current level, are you not?

Mr. WALKER. That is correct, with a minor change of four positions coming to us from the central Department of Labor for data processing.

Mr. Zuck. The reduction in 1976 was for 170 positions; the Congress restored 100 of those. But there will be a total reduction this year of 70 positions from the 1975 level.

Mr. MICHEL. And where will those be, mainly?

Mr. WALKER. The 100?

Mr. MICHEL. Right.

Mr. HEWITT. They are in the national and regional office.

Mr. WALKER. Largely in connection with CETA, I believe, that a reduction was requested and made, with the decentralization of facilities.

Mr. MICHEL. Are you projecting a reduction in unemployment benefit claims toward the end of fiscal 1977?

Mr. Zuck. Yes, sir.

Mr. MICHEL. Does that, then, mean that you can reduce personnel further?

Mr. BURDETSKY. That is discussed in the grants to States appropriation, sir.

Mr. MICHEL. All right.

QUALITY CONTROL IN UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION

Now, reference was made in your statement to improving the quality control of unemployment compensation. Last fall Mr. Kolberg stated that in 1973 about $50 million was lost in overpayments and fraudulent claims. Do you have any updated figures in 1975, when there was a large increase in the amount paid out?

Mr. BURDETSKY. No, sir; I do not have that with me at this time. Mr. WALKER. The budget presentation on that will be tomorrow. I can certainly get that for you tomorrow, sir.

Mr. MICHEL. Fine.

EMPLOYMENT EFFECTS OF BOTTLE DEPOSITS

Mr. MICHEL. One final one. You know we are reading more and more about the States passing legislation with respect to return of bottles, in the whole environmental area. Are there any figures available as to how many additional jobs that might create by moving in that direction, as distinguished from just junking all bottles?

Would there be just as many people involved in the other side getting rid of the garbage, refuse, and solid waste disposal?

Mr. BURDETSKY. I am sure that can be calculated. We have not done it, but it could be done.

Mr. MICHEL. I was just curious. It came up in discussion the other day.

Thank you, Mr. Burdetsky.

TRAVEL COSTS

Mr. CONTE. At page 7 of your justification under "Program administration" you are requesting an additional $1.2 million for travel costs, yet you advise there is no increase in the amount of actual travel. I realize that Public Law 94-22 does provide modest increases in travel but it is hard to see how it would cause a $1.2 million void for the next fiscal year.

Mr. ANGEBRANNDT. When Public Law 94-22 was passed, the 1976 budget had already been submitted. The increased costs from the new bill had to be absorbed, thus reducing the planned level of travel during fiscal year 1976. The $1.2 million increase is based on fiscal year 1976 travel needs and requirements and covers only additional costs as stipulated in the new bill. Travel in fiscal year 1977 will be conducted at the level planned in 1976, had we received the additional funds for the costs associated with Public Law 94-22.

Mr. CONTE. Do you have a breakdown of how Public Law 94-22 will cause this increase?

Mr. ANGEBRAN NDT. Yes, sir.

[The information follows:]

A 26-percent increase to cover additional costs for maximum per diem rate. A two percent increase to cover additional costs for maximum actual expenses for travel to designated high-cost geographical areas, including locality rates as predetermined by GSA. Included in the areas designed by GSA are four regional offices and the Washington, D.C. office;

A 2-percent increase to cover additional cost in mileage allowance.

ADDITIONAL APPRENTICESHIP COSTS

Mr. CONTE. You are requesting an additional $285,000 for "Apprenticeship." Do the increases occur because of additional apprenticeships, or administrative expenses?

Mr. BURDETSKY. The $285,000 increase requested is to cover mandatory administrative costs such as within-grade promotions, administrative program support, and full-year costs of the pay increase approved in fiscal year 1976.

APPRENTICESHIP

Mr. ConTe. How many apprenticeships will be provided in fiscal year 1977 as compared to past years?

Mr. BURDETSKY. We anticipate approximately 400,000 apprentices will be in training in registered programs during fiscal year 1977 including more than 68,000 minorities and women. Nearly 45 percent of all registered apprentices will be veterans. This is a modest increase over previous years.

For example, during the last 6 years the average has been 375,600 apprentices.

INMATE APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM

Mr. CONTE. I understand there will be an extension of prison inmate apprenticeship programs. I would be interested in seeing materials you have regarding the success or failure of these programs.

Mr. BURDETSKY. Apprenticeship opportunities for qualified inmates of correctional institutions continues to be one of the most

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