months. These included homicides, assault to kill, burglaries, flourishing dangerous and deadly weapons, and robberies.

Miscellaneous police actions dealing with firearms such as suicide, accidental shootings, peace disturbance, common assaults, and guns found total 223.

This means that in St. Louis our officers were involved in 1,867 cases dealing with firearms.

Our crime laboratory examined each of these guns during this period. Our laboratory commander tells me that for the past several months .22 caliber German revolvers, which sell for $10 to $15 each, have been received at the rate of 1 per day in our crime laboratory in St. Louis. Obviously these are easily and cheaply accessible.

Senator DODD. These, by the way, are mostly mail order?

Mr. BROSTRON. Yes, sir; I have one here that is an actual case. That was seized on March 8, 1965. It had been used in assault with intent to kill, discharging firearms. It is not new to you because you have the same model on your board here.

In the area of homicide, we have had 66 murders so far this year, 49 of them by pistol or shotgun. In 1964, 80 of the 120 murders were committed by pistol, shotgun, or rifle. Of these, 66 were by revolver.

Last year, 21 youths, 14 to 26 years of age, committed murders while in possession of various types of firearms. One was a double shotgun murder of his parents by a 15-year-old youth. During interrogation of the murder defendants, many stated that they had purchased the murder weapon in a tavern or from some unknown person on the street. Others have said that they have obtained them in other States or that they have obtained them through mail order.

Obviously it is easy for them to get weapons.

Aggravated assaults are classified as index crimes. Out of 2,054 aggravated assaults last year, 432, or 21 percent involved assault with a gun.

I might add that we cleared 68.1 percent of the aggravated assaults involving the use of guns.

In 1964 a St. Louis police officer was shot and killed by a holdup

man.

So far this year we had another police officer who was shot and seriously wounded just last May in a gun battle with holdup men who held up a jewelry store.

In both of these cases, in trying to check the guns back, it was determined that both of these people had not obtained these weapons through legal means.

It is difficult for me to pinpoint the seriousness of availability of firearms by mail order or other sources. But I do know that any individual, whether he be adult or juvenile, who wishes to avail himself of the use of a gun can do so.

There is no question in my mind that the availability of firearms is a contributing cause to crime in St. Louis. I mentioned earlier that we were getting in our crime laboratory at the rate of one a day these .22-caliber German revolvers. There is no doubt that these are from a mail-order house.

The provision in Senate bill No. 1592 stating that no one except a licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer can transport, ship, or receive firearms in interstate commerce, can make it more difficult

to obtain weapons. The license fees will prevent many individuals from opening shop.

The requirement that no firearms can be sold to a business or individual who is not a resident of the State, or without checking to ascertain that he is not a felon or fugitive, or has a criminal record, will help make our job easier in tracing firearms. This requirement will enable us to more easily pinpoint, through dealers and such, the owner of a particular make of weapon. These records would be valuable to us in our work.

As a border city, as St. Louis is, many guns come into Missouri from other States. This of course increases our problem, and many persons under questioning admit they obtained the guns elsewhere.

So, as I mentioned earlier, in this battle against crime, the police officer certainly needs all of the support that he can possibly get, and any restrictions which can be imposed legislatively upon helping to prevent the person with criminal intent from obtaining firearms, especially small handguns, with which to hold up people and assault people, we certainly would appreciate that very much.

Senator DODD. Well, we thank you, Chief, for your testimony.

You are an outstanding law-enforcement officer in this country. You certainly know what is going on in St. Louis.

Obviously, no matter how good your regulations are with respect to firearms, if people can buy them from mail order, your law-enforcement task is much greater. You do not know about the individual who gets a gun through the mail order, do you?

Mr. BROSTRON. That is true.

Senator DODD. So I take it that the mail-order gun business does present a problem in St. Louis, as it appears to do everywhere else in the country.

Mr. BROSTRON. It does, Senator.

Senator DODD. Do you think if this bill were enacted into law you could implement and enforce your own laws more effectively than at the present time?

Mr. BROSTRON. I think any restriction would be helpful, Senator. We, of course, as I mentioned, in arresting suspects who are carrying arms on their person-if the search is not legal, of course the case will not stand in court. And it is true that we bring many of these people in, and their weapons go into our crime laboratory for testing with bullets in fatal cases. But the person is free to go right back on the streets, and if he is able to obtain another firearm-he cannot get his weapon back from us unless he replevins it, and they cannot replevin it if they cannot show legal ownership or proper registration. Senator DODD. Naturally, the figures show that rifles and shotguns account for about 30 percent of the murders by firearms.

Do you have any figures with respect to St. Louis?

Mr. BROSTRON. I think our figure runs a little less than that. It would run about 17.5 percent.

Senator DODD. They vary somewhat across the country. But it is about 30 percent nationwide.

This is why I have been insisting that the shotguns and rifles are a problem, whereas some people who oppose the bill say it is no problem at all that they only account for 30 percent of the murders. I ask

them how high you want to go-what do we have to do to demonstrate this is a real problem.

Thirty percent of all the murders in this country is a substantial figure, it seems to me.

Mr. BROSTRON. It is certainly something to be reckoned with.

Senator DODD. Maybe they would be satisfied with 31 percent, I do not know.

Senator DODD. Mr. Perian.

Mr. PERIAN. Mr. Jacobsmeyer, could you briefly describe to the committee

Senator BURDICK. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?

Senator DODD. Yes, I am sorry.

Senator BURDICK. Do you have an ordinance or any kind of a regulation in St. Louis covering the sale of firearms?

Mr. BROSTRON. Yes, sir, Senator; we do have. We have a State statue requiring the registration of firearms, especially handguns, and a person, a law-abiding citizen, must go to the sheriff of the city of St. Louis, and get a certificate of good citizenship. He applies for this. He receives a letter from business people to take with him. The sheriff does a check of the police records at the police department. If the man has a clear record, he is issued the authorization to purchase a firearm. And this is from a regular licensed dealer.

He makes his purchase. The dealer places the number of the firearm on the certificate. The purchaser takes it back to the circuit clerk where it is registered. He has conformed with the law.

Now then, of course we have statutes covering not only assault, but flourishing a dangerous and deadly weapon, and all that sort of thing. We also have city ordinances covering the same subject matter.

But people carrying about the streets weapons in their pockets and committing crimes with them-the law regulating that is carrying a concealed weapon. And on that we only make can only carry through a successful prosecution if our search is legal, and in most of the cases if you stop someone on the street whose description might answer the description of someone who has just committed a robbery, this would hardly be sufficient to deem this as a legal search.

So in many of those cases, there is no prosecution.

Senator BURDICK. I understand then the city of St. Louis has a statute that requires you to go through a certain process before you can buy at least a handgun.

Mr. BROSTRON. Right, sir.

Senator BURDICK. Is that required to buy a .22 or 16-gage shotgun-something like that?

Mr. BROSTRON. I am not certain on that. I do not think so. I think for the responsible people in the sporting field, or in gun clubs, or things like that I am not certain on that. I am concerned with the small gun.

Senator BURDICK. I have heard other witnesses testify that these ordinances apply only to the handgun.

Mr. BROSTRON. In the main, they do.

Senator BURDICK. I also noticed here out of 658 prosecutions for having concealed weapons, 12 of them included .22 rifles.

Mr. BROSTRON. Yes, sir.

Senator BURDICK. That is a pretty small percentage of all weapons.

Mr. BROSTRON. Yes, sir.

Senator BURDICK. Í am sort of curious how you can conceal a .22 rifle.

Mr. BROSTRON. I do not have the data connected with each of those 12 cases, Senator. But I would surmise that in those cases they were this was in connection with the commission of another crime.

In other words, it may have been that one of these individuals was shooting at someone, a report went in, a search went on, and we have had holdup men arrested who had concealed under their clothing, or under a coat, a .22 or a sawed-off shotgun.

Senator BURDICK. You cannot give me any specifics on these cases today?

Mr. BROSTRON. No, sir; I do not have the data.

Senator BURDICK. Now, the chairman asked you about the amount of crime committed by the long gun, hunting gun, shotgun, .30-30, whatever it is. Based upon your experience as a law enforcement officer, is it not-is there any case you know where there was premeditation to rob a bank, rob a filling station, or rob any other institutions, where the weapon employed was a long gun?

Mr. BROSTRON. I have seen some cases where they used sawed-off shotguns.

Senator BURDICK. Just a minute. That is a sawed-off shotgun. But I mean a long hunting weapon.

Mr. BROSTRON. Very, very seldom.

Senator BURDICK. It is in these crimes of passion, these crimes of violence, where they use shotguns or rifles or anything they can get their hands on.

I notice in your case here there was a son that killed his parents. And we had a case here the other day where a wife killed a husband. It is these crimes of violence where they take the closest weapon at hand-where any weapon is involved. Is that too much of a generalization?

Mr. BROSTRON. I would say that what you have just stated, Senator, would hold true in many cases.

Senator BURDICK. Yes. In other words, if a man embarked upon a trail of crime, he is going to be using a concealed weapon-and that is really the culprit involved in most of the cases?

Mr. BROSTRON. Those are the people who as a professional police officer I am concerned about-the people who move about the streets with weapons concealed on them.

Senator BURDICK. That is right.

Well, then, there is some distinction, even in your mind-there certainly is in my mind-to get a balance here in this legislation, so that we do not unduly penalize the substantial people who use hunting guns-hunting rifles and things of that nature in an orderly and legal manner. Some of us feel there should be some difference in treatment between the gun users in a legitimate fashion and the others. And based upon your testimony, in the premeditated crimes in your area, the long gun plays a very minor role.

Mr. BROSTRON. Certainly the cases where firearms are used more frequently are the small guns-in the robberies and the assaults on people on the street. And that is what we of course are trying to control. Senator BURDICK. Thank you very much.

Mr. BROSTRON. You are very welcome, Senator.

Senator DODD. Sawed-off shotguns are not for sale, are they?
Mr. BROSTRON. No, sir, Senator.

Senator DODD. You buy a regular one and saw it off?

Mr. BROSTRON. Well, that is ordinarily done. There may be some who may purchase one already sawed off from somebody in the underworld.

Senator DODD. I know. But they are not made that way?

Mr. BROSTRON. No, not that I know of.

Senator BURDICK. Have you ever seen a brandnew shotgun sawed off in the last few years in your experience?

Mr. BROSTRON. No, sir.

Senator DODD. I have not either-but that does not mean they are not being sawed off.

Well, you are an excellent witness, I will say that.

Senator Burdick and I have both been notified that we must be at the Judiciary Committee. We have a meeting going on. So we will have to recess this hearing.

I feel very badly about Major Jacobsmeyer, who I know is one of the outstanding authorities in this country. And I say this with full knowledge of what I am saying. He is one of the outstanding authorities in this country on the subject of juvenile crime.

I particularly wanted to hear your testimony publicly. There is not anything I can do about it. It is the rules of the Senate. We have to be at the meeting if the committee insists.

I would suggest-do you have a prepared statement, Major?

Mr. JACOBSMEYER. I have a little prepared statement that is not written down.

Senator DODD. Well, I would like to get it on the record.

Perhaps the way to do it is if you can stay over. I would like to hear you.

I am very earnest about this. You are, in my judgment anyway, one of the best in the country.

If you could stay over, we could hear you tomorrow morning; otherwise, would you submit a statement that we could put in the record? You make your choice about it.

Mr. JACOBSMEYER. I will do that. Thank you for the kind words. Senator DODD. They may be kind, but they are truthful. I think what I said is well known to everyone in the law enforcement business. Mr. JACOBSMEYER. We think highly of you and of the committee and that is the reason we were so happy to be present here today.

We are hopeful that other legislators may be more cognizant in these times of the restrictions that are being placed against police officers by court opinions and by the use of what you have in mind here, to increase our effectiveness.

Senator DODD. I hope so, too.

Thank you both very much.

(The statement referred to is as follows:)

STATEMENT OF COMDR. ADOLPH C. JACOBSMEYER, OF THE ST. LOUIS POLICE

DEPARTMENT

It gives me a great deal of pleasure to be here this morning to testify before this important committee in behalf of Senate bill 1592. I reiterate the grave concern as expressed by Chief Brostron in regard to the importance it has for all