The significance of this itinerant-type dealer in our area has been the ruse by which these paramilitary groups move their armaments from place to place. For example, it is our information that these two truckloads from Delaware were not sold at any location, that they were merely transported to a group on their way to be transported to a group in California before we seized them.

Mr. PERIAN. In other words, a major implication of this case is that this is the way the so-called paramilitary groups transport their arsenals, is that correct?

Mr. Howe. That is true. They take out a Federal dealer's license, and, therefore, under the present laws, they can go about the country carrying any except the few restricted weapons such as machineguns to any location they desire.

Mr. PERIAN. Were you able to determine the percentage of imported firearms which were seized by your department as compared to domestic weapons?

Mr. Howe. Yes. We have made tallies of that. In 1963, all of the guns destroyed by our department under section 12028 of the California Penal Code which allows us to destroy or demand that we destroy guns under certain cases, of all the hand guns destroyed under this law, 46.7 percent of these were foreign-made guns.

And I might add that nearly everyone of these was of the type that is normally sold in the mail order traffic.

In 1964, we did not have statistics until just before I was able to leave. So, I had a survey made in which about one-fourth of all the guns that came into our custody during the year 1964 were checked. And this spot check showed that it was running 47 percent of all the guns that came into our custody were foreign made.

Mr. PERIAN. In your statement, you cited statistics on the misuse of firearms by juveniles and adults with regard to the crime of robbery and aggravated assault. Do you have any information or opinion based on your work in Los Angeles that a major source of these firearms were either mail order or from out-of-State purchases? Mr. HowE. We have no actual statistics, of course, because in a majority of cases we cannot trace the source of the gun, and we have to be guided by the type of weapons involved. And the numbers run approximately the same as the percentages I gave you here approximately 45 to 50 percent of all the guns taken from robbery suspects both juvenile and adult are of the foreign mail-order type. And because an individual cannot receive a gun by mail order without going through the routine of having the gun checked and the individual checked with the police department in our city, it is only logical that nearly all of this type of gun does come from out-of-State or mailorder purchases.

Mr. PERIAN. Thank you.

Senator DODD. Thank you very much, Captain.

Your testimony is helpful.

Sergeant Gonzalez.

Sergeant, you are welcome.

Like Captain Howe, you have had extensive experience in law enforcement work, particularly work in the field of firearms control. We are anxious to hear you.

STATEMENT OF SGT. J. C. GONZALEZ, LOS ANGELES POLICE

DEPARTMENT

Mr. GONZALEZ. In considering the need for the proposed legislation, the committee may wish to review what has taken place in the field of correspondence school training.

Within the past year, one of Los Angeles' most successful and wellestablished correspondence schools has added to its $56.50 sales training course the importing and mail-order merchandising of guns.

Through national advertising, prospective students of the course are advised that they can learn through the correspondence school training how to purchase derringer pistols on the foreign market for as low as $5.99 and build a "big profit home import business." I have here one of the weapons that this company is furnishing as a sample for the prospective gun dealers.

I would like to introduce this, Senator. I would like you to look at it. It is a cheap import. It can be purchased overseas in West Germany for $5.99.

The product recommended is a West German-made .22 caliber long rifle Burgo derringer with over-and-under barrels. It is manufactured by Roehm Gesellschaft.

For a period of 5 months the firm, which is the Mellinger Co. of 1554 South Sepulveda Boulevard, Los Angeles, was offering a der

ringer pistol as one of eight imported items given free to enrollees of the schools. One thousand of the West German derringers were purchased by the school as premiums.

For a 5-month period, between June 23 and November 17, 1964, the school distributed 640 guns to purchasers of the course. This gives some indication of the interest exhibited in becoming a mail-order gun dealer. My inspection of the firm's records indicated that these guns had been mailed into virtually every State of our Union and Canada. The firm, I am happy to report, has voluntarily dropped the guns from their list of import premiums. But the correspondence course continues to offer detailed information to interested students on the guns-their availability in the foreign market, import procedures, and how to merchandise them by mail from one's home. I have here, Senator, and I believe Mr. Perian has a copy of it, the type of advertising that Mellinger Corp. puts out-this is as late as May 1965, taken out of Master Detective magazine the second one is taken out of the True magazine of April 1965-and the literature that is sent to the prospective student reads something like this:

How low-cost attractive imported products are sold in mail orders.

How a husband or wife or even a family can operate a mail-order business. How to conduct profitable installment sales by mail.

What laws to consider when operating a mail-order business.

How to write mail-order ads that pull the most orders.

And the back portion of this exhibit that I have has a full page ad that states:

Join me in this exciting new venture. This derringer is just one of the many smashing new imports that will be sent to you to build profits on.

And then it goes on to explain in this catalog also "I will also give you the results of our survey which show the steps to take to become a dealer in firearms in your State."

I would like to submit this.

Senator DODD. Very well. It will be received.

(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibits Nos. 44, 45, and 46" and will be found in the files of the subcommittee.)

Mr. GONZALEZ. During the period the guns were offered as a gift, those students residing in California were advised to obtain for the sum of $1 a Federal firearms dealers license in order to avoid State and local firearms regulations. To avoid State regulations on dealers, it is contended by the school and the student-dealers that they were importers whose only transactions would be international or interstate. I have checked some of these out personally, Senator, and one of the locations is a second-rate motel in which many arrests for narcotics have been made, and one of the locations is a beaten down combination hotel-apartment in which they are advertising a big handwritten sign, "Rooms $6.50 a week." And these are the types of individuals that are going to go into the mail-order business, supposedly becoming mail-order gun dealers.

The strict California State and local regulations on handguns have discouraged most of the Los Angeles-based mail-order weapon businesses from selling handguns to our residents. However, it should be pointed out that a very few mail-order houses tried to consummate sales with California by setting up mail drops in neighboring States.

In these sales, the order and money were accepted in Los Angeles, but the merchandise was mailed from the neighboring States. We believe we have curbed these operations, but unscrupulous operators could resume the practice at any time. This is one of the inherent dangers in the mail-order gun business; local laws can easily be evaded through the abuse of normal sales practices.

We have been troubled, however, with another aspect of the interstate sale of handguns. Los Angeles criminals have been known to go to Nevada and Arizona to purchase weapons and then return to their hometown to practice crime. I believe Captain Howe cited one of the cases in which two of our Los Angeles officers were murdered. In one instance, an individual flew to Las Vegas, purchased two guns, and returned to Los Angeles all within the space of 8 hours. He sold one of the two weapons in order to help defray the expenses of his trip. The purchase of a handgun, of course, under this legislation would be possible only in one's State of residence.

Attorney General Lynch has discussed the availability by mail of heavy armaments and destructive devices and parts for machineguns. In this regard I would like to call to your attention some recent issues of the Shotgun News, published and distributed from Columbus, Nebr.

In the May 1, 1965, edition, there are at least eight display type ads for destructive devices and no less than 20 ads for automatic weapon parts. The danger of machinegun parts is the ease with which they can be utilized to convert an unserviceable DEWAT weapon.

A good example of the capability is to be seen in the case of one Roger Alan Dier, who is now serving time in the State prison for possession of machineguns.

This 25-year-old laborer, who incidentally furnished his apartment as a hideout for one of the kidnapers of Frank Sinatra, Jr., at the time of his apprehension, had converted three guns to full automatic with parts purchased through the mail.

The converted weapons were a Russian Dektyarov 7.62-millimeter light machinegun, a 9-millimeter Austrian-made machinegun with a 9-inch barrel, and a U.S. .30-caliber carbine. That had been converted into a fully automatic with the M-2 conversion unit. The Russian weapon was purchased by mail from Potomac Arms in Alexandria, Va.; and the other two guns were purchased over the counter from gun shops in southern California.

The evidence seized indicated that Dier had utilized at least two other mail-order weapon firms to obtain parts for the guns. In addition, he had advertised in the Shotgun News an offer to trade handguns for automatic weapons. California records, incidentally, show that he purchased 31 handguns in a 4-year period. At least 16 were imports. I have a copy which I would like to introduce, the ad that Roger Dier placed in the Shotgun News dated October 15, 1963, and also a copy of the evidence report indicating the weapons that were seized at the time of his arrest.

Senator DODD. Very well.

(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibits Nos. 47 and 48" and are as follows:)

EXHIBIT No. 47

THE SHOTGUN NEWS, COLUMBUS, NEBRASKA

49-588 O-65-12

$585.; 1900/06 Brazilian, exc., never reworked so $150.; 1904/08 Naval, VG plus to exc., $260.; Krieghoff late "S" date, VG plus, $400.; 42 Code 41 date, VG plus, scarce, $135.; Mauser Banner Portuguese "GNR," VG plus, one of the best available, $250.; Mauser military 9mm Luger, VG plus, nice bore, $90.; Might consider trade for machine weapons, especially MP40, Beretta 38-42, Sten, Ingram submachine gun, Thompson, BAR or LMG; 5 Day return priv.; R. Dier, 730% Machado Dr., Venice, Calif.