Mr. MACY. That is what called our attention to the fact that the House Appropriations Committee desired to have this entire program in one place in the Civil Service Commission. Senator MAGNUSON. The House committee wanted it the way you are suggesting in Senate Document No. 36. Mr. MACY. Correct. Senator MAGNUSON. Where they can catch it, as the appropriation bills come along, they will do so but where they don't catch it, Bureau of the Budget will freeze the amount. Mr. MACY. Correct. Senator MAGNUSON. Would that be a fair analysis? NO COST REDUCTION Senator YOUNG. I have just one question. I can see where this makes for more central budgeting. Would is mean any savings? Mr. MACY. This is exactly the same amount of money. All we are doing here is changing the method by which the funds are appropriated. Instead of having each agency defend this as part of their appropriation, we would come before you and defend the entire amount. Mr. WILLIAMS. The idea being you could see the whole program in perspective. Senator ALLOTT. I am glad you used the word "defend" instead of justified. Mr. MACY. I am a realist. Senator ALLOTT. I am sorry I was delayed. There are two agencies. They are? Mr. MACY. Interior and Treasury. Senator MAGNUSON. They have already passed. IMPOUNDING OF APPROPRIATED AGENCY FUNDS Senator ALLOTT. All right, now. Would it not be better, Mr. Chairman, for us not to include those two in our appropriation for this year? Otherwise we are just simply building up the appropriations by that amount. Mr. WILLIAMS. Those bills have already passed the Congress and have been signed by the President. Mr. MACY. Treasury is $851,300. Interior is $405,500. Senator MAGNUSON. That is $1,256,800. Senator ALLOTT. A million-two or a million-three of NOA funds have already been passed. I am not arguing about this method of doing it. Mr. MACY. I appreciate it. Senator ALLOTT. But we can talk about this and decide it, but I am thinking of leaving those as they are and simply deducting these, saying what we have done. Senator MAGNUSON. You see, the Bureau of the Budget will freeze those. Mr. MACY. That is right. They won't be expended in any event because the Bureau of the Budget makes the commitment to freeze them. Senator ALLOTT. But they make our appropriations larger. Senator MAGNUSON. Milt, are you on the Defense appropriations? Senator MAGNUSON. I am, too. Mr. MACY. Mr. Chairman, the House has already put a restriction on the use of $8.9 million by Defense for this purpose. Mr. WILLIAMS. That restriction is in the Defense appropriation. Senator MAGNUSON. We have not marked it up yet. Mr. MACY. The restriction is already in the House bill. Senator MAGNUSON. The full committee is going to mark it up soon. We will bring this up and discuss it then. Senator YOUNG. Which agency? Mr. WILLIAMS. All you need do is agree with the House position. Senator MAGNUSON. That will take care of it. We are going to mark up sometime next week. I think we understand this. Where we can, we will catch the amount ourselves. it Mr. MACY. You will have a number of these agencies appearing before your committee hearings. Senator MAGNUSON. Mr. Cooper, you ought to tell the other Appropriations Committee staff to watch these as they come along. It will save a lot of trouble. Mr. COOPER. It has been discussed with Defense.. Senator MAGNUSON. But we have others coming along. Mr. MACY. Labor and HEW have specific reductions. Senator MAGNUSON. Agriculture has gone through the Senate, has it not? It is in conference. Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; it is in conference. Senator MAGNUSON. Well anyway, I think we understand this. Mr. MACY. In other words, the reason for the amendment is to conform to the desires of the House Appropriations Committee. BUDGET REQUEST INCREASE Senator MAGNUSON. But we would have to add, regardless of this matter, to your salaries and expenses, $13,950,000? Is that correct? Mr. MACY. That is correct. That is the net figure. If we were asking for total restoration of the House cut, the amount added would be $14,614,000. Senator MAGNUSON. But you have taken out $664,000. Mr. MACY. Correct. Senator MAGNUSON. So we would have to add $13,950,000? Mr. MACY. Right. Senator ALLOTT. If we handled it the other way, less, approximately $1 million two or three. Mr. MACY. Yes, if you follow your approach on Treasury and Interior. Senator MAGNUSON. Yes. Senator ALLOTT. Treasury and Interior-▬▬▬▬▬ Senator MAGNUSON. All right. FUTURE BUDGETS Mr. MACY. In the future years, we will come up with this entire amount as a part of the Commission's salary and expenses budget, and defend it. Senator MAGNUSON. And list the agencies and what the cost is. Senator MAGNUSON. For you to do the job. Mr. MACY. For us to do the job for them; and again, I point out that this is work that the agencies have been performing in the past through the 661 boards they had. Senator MAGNUSON. I think this is a better way to approach it. I think we all agree with the purpose on Senate Document No. 36. Mr. MACY. We feel very strongly that this represents a decided increase, both in efficiency and in service. Then, Mr. Chairman, returning to my statement. (The document follows:) [S. Doc. 36, 90th Cong., first sess.] COMMUNICATION FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TRANSMITTING AN AMENDMENT TO THE REQUEST FOR APPROPRIATIONS TRANSMITTED IN THE BUDGET FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 1968 IN THE AMOUNT OF $13,950,000 FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION The PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE. THE WHITE HOUSE, Washington, D.C., June 19, 1967. SIR: I have the honor to transmit herewith for the consideration of the Congress an amendment to the request for appropriations transmitted in the budget for the fiscal year 1968 in the amount of $13,950,000 for the Civil Service Commission. The details of this amendment, the necessity therefor, and the reasons for its submission at this time are set forth in the attached letter from the Director of the Bureau of the Budget, with whose comments and observations thereon I SIR: I have the honor to submit herewith for your consideration an amendment to the request for appropriations transmitted in the budget for the fiscal year 1968 in the amount of $13,950,000 for the Civil Service Commission as follows: This amendment will provide for the centralized funding of Interagency Boards of Examiners which conducts recruitment and examination of applicants for Federal employment. The 1968 budget transmitted in January included all of these funds, but provided them in the numerous appropriations of several other agencies. The amounts that were in the January budget for each agency are shown in the attachment to this letter. This amendment therefore does not add a penny to your 1968 budget recommendations. It is being transmitted in accordance with my understanding of the desire of the House Committee on Appropriations to review and examine in one place all the funds for this activity. Any funds for this activity in other appropriation requests not specifically denied by the Congress will be placed in reserve by the Bureau of the Budget. Such actions will assure that no increase to the total 1968 budget will result from this amendment. I recommend that the foregoing amendment to the budget for the fiscal year 1968 be transmitted to the Congress. Respectfully yours, CHARLES L. SCHULTZE, Director of the Bureau of the Budget. Pro rata established fiscal year 1968 costs by agencies for operating Interagency Boards of Examiners Pro rata share of fiscal year 1968 costs Agency Army Navy Air Force_. $3,355, 400 2,673, 600 2,368, 200 Revision of pending estimate-Investigation for character and fitness for employment--- Proposed amendment___. 73, 100 54, 100 51, 200 32.900 30,000 29, 200 27, 800 23, 400 21, 200 16, 100 14, 600 12, 400 12, 400 11,700 10, 200 7,300 7.300 7,300 7.300 7,300 5,800 5, 100 4, 400 14, 614, 000 -664, 000 13, 950,000 ESTABLISHMENT OF FEDERAL INFORMATION CENTERS Senator MAGNUSON. Now, while we are on the subject of boards, you and I talked some time ago about this. You may have talked with Senator Allott also. He knows about it. We would also establish certain central units in areas, run by the Civil Service Commission called Federal information centers. Mr. MACY. That is right. Senator MAGNUSON. Sort of information centers. Mr. MACY. Information centers, as a part of these new consolidated interagency boards. GSA BUDGET REQUEST FOR PILOT PROGRAM Senator MAGNUSON. Yes. In the GSA budget request we have a request for $23,000. Mr. MACY. Well, it is related to it—— Senator MAGNUSON. It is related to it because as the first step, somebody might go to the information center. Mr. MACY. Right. Senator MAGNUSON. GSA has $23,000 for a Federal information center, in Atlanta. Mr. MACY. Right. Senator MAGNUSON. To be kind of a pilot project? Mr. MACY. Right. Senator MAGNUSON. Now, you want that to remain in GSA. Senator MAGNUSON. Why is that? Mr. MACY. We feel that those information centers which are concerned with information related to all Federal programs, not just civil service or Federal employment, represent a general service to the public, and are appropriately a part of the mission of GSA with support from all of the agencies that are being served by this particular operation. CONTEMPLATED ADDITIONAL CENTERS The pilot center in Atlanta is our test run. It has been operating now for 12 months, and we feel that it has been such a success that we would like to see it extended into other major cities. Senator MAGNUSON. But GSA would have to come up and justify them. Mr. MACY. That is true. Senator MAGNUSON. All right. It is a small amount but if it works, it should be extended. I think at one time you figured we ought to have at least 15 of them. Mr. MACY. That is right; 15 was the ultimate objective. RELATED GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICES FOR SALE OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS Mr. WILLIAMS. There is a third dimension added to this now, Mr. Chairman. That is the Superintendent of Documents in the Government Printing Office is also opening up offices related to these centers, |