I have received a telephone call at least daily that I have been indicted, or will be indicted, to which I always ask: "What for?" and the reply is, well, it really makes no difference, because an indictment will ruin you. And I think you have to agree that if I had been indicted I would probably not have been asked to be here this morning. It does take away one's credibility, even to be indicted, even though I would not worry about the petty jury, because I have not violated any laws. So, these are some of the types of pressure that I have felt. Mr. KASTENMEIER. Well, notwithstanding the fact that you did not want to come, or you did not ask to come, this committee mandated your appearance here this morning, but nonetheless I want you to know that we appreciate your straightforwardness and what you have communicated to us. I think you have discharged an obligation not only to the people of the city of Houston, but to the entire country by your appearance here this morning. I would like to yield to my friend, the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Railsback. Mr. RAILSBACK. Chief, what have you done with the evidence that you developed? Mr. LYNN. I have turned all of it over to the Office of the U.S. Attorney. Mr. RAILSBACK. Does that include the recorded conversations that you recorded? Mr. LYNN. Yes, sir. Everything. Mr. RAILSBACK. How many interviews have you had with the Justice Department or people representing them? Mr. LYNN. I do not recall exactly. Probably in person, maybe five. I talked with them a few times over the telephone. Mr. RAILSBACK. Has that been recent or over a period of time? Or when? Mr. LYNN. In the beginning, when I first started talking to them, we have more conversations. There have not been too many recently. Mr. RAILSBACK. How did you learn that the logs had been destroyed. You mentioned on page 4 that the logs had been destroyed. How did you find that out? Mr. LYNN. I learned this from two different people. The one said. he was 95 percent sure, and the other said that he could assure me that the logs along with the other equipment, had been burnt and describing the other equipment, said it had been busted up with a sledge hammer, buried, and some of it thrown in the bayou. Mr. RAILSBACK. Have extensive interviews yet been conducted of some of these other people whose names you did divulge to the Department of Justice? Mr. LYNN. It is my understanding that they have had several interviews with a number of people. Mr. RAILSBACK. So there has been an investigation, either begun or is it still going on? Do you know? Mr. LYNN. As far as I know, it still is. Mr. RAILSBACK. Have you actually acted as a complainant or what has been your role? Mr. LYNN. Sir, my role was one that I simply wanted the Houston Police Department to get out of the business of violating the law to make cases. I wanted us to have a clean police department and that was my total interest in this thing. After I turned it over to the Justice Department, I stepped out of it. Mr. RAILSBACK. Did you have names of the telephone company employees involved in it? Mr. LYNN. There may have been some names turned over. I don't recall them at this time. Mr. RAILSBACK. Thank you. Mr. KASTENMEIER. The gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Drinan. Mr. DRINAN. I want to thank you, Chief Lynn, for your appearance here, and I will defer most of my questioning until after we have heard from Mr. Farris, and I think we will be in a better position to understand everything. But I have just two specific questions. Have the nine police officers who have been indicted been suspended from the force? Mr. LYNN. Under the law, the Texas law, which officers operate under, I could not suspend them from the Department. I relieved them of duty with pay. Mr. DRINAN. Which you have done? Mr. LYNN. Yes, sir. Mr. DRINAN. Chief, you say here once or twice in your testimony that you secretly wiretapped conversations, one of which was with the Chief of Security of the Bell System. Was that illegal? Mr. LYNN. No, sir. That is totally legal. Before I entered into this investigation, I consulted with my attorney on what was the best way to preserve any type of information, and we researched or, well, he researched the entire laws on it and suggested that I do it in this manner. Mr. DRINAN. Well, just one more point on that. How many times did you secretly tape conversations that you had with other individuals unbeknownst to them? Mr. LYNN. I believe it was only six times. Mr. DRINAN. All right. I would yield back now, and I want to thank you. And we will have further questioning at a later time. Mr. KASTENMEIER. The gentleman from New York, Mr. Badillo. Mr. BADILLO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chief, are you satisfied that there is no wiretapping going on now by the police department in your city? Mr. LYNN. Well, I am satisfied that there is not any going on for criminal purposes. Mr. BADILLO. I mean illegal wiretapping, of course. Mr. LYNN. In the police department I am satisfied that there is no wiretapping, yes, sir. Mr. BADILLO. Are you satisfied that there is no Federal agency that is conducting illegal wiretapping in Houston? Mr. LYNN. On that, I would not really know. I could really only speak for my department there, as I really have not gone that deep into investigation of any Federal agency. Mr. BADILLO. Aside from the visit you had by the special agent of the FBI, have you discussed this or been in communication with the FBI to determine whether they have been participating in any wiretapping? Mr. LYNN. I have not asked them that specific question, no, sir. It really was out of my realm of jurisdiction, so I didn't ask them this question. Mr. BADILLO. Aside from the statements that were made in your testimony, is there any evidence that you know of before you became the chief of any Federal involvement, particularly by the FBI in illegal wiretapping? Mr. LYNN. To my own personal knowledge, I don't recall of it. Mr. BADILLO. Well, when you found that the logs were destroyed, did you try to determine who destroyed them and on what authority? Mr. LYNN. Yes, sir, I did. Mr. BADILLO. And what did you find? Mr. LYNN. I found that the person who was then the head of the criminal intelligence had supervised the destruction of all of the equipment. Mr. BADILLO. Is that person still in the department? Mr. LYNN. Yes, sir, he is. Mr. BADILLO. Did you find out why this was done? Did you ask that person to come in and explain why this was done? Mr. LYNN. I believe his statement was that when a new mayor came in that it was obvious that the heat was on, they would never be able to use the equipment again, and that they destroyed many things. Mr. BADILLO. Well, have you taken any disciplinary action against that individual? Mr. LYNN. Unfortunately, under State law, I cannot. Mr. BADILLO. Why is that? Mr. LYNN. If you do not take action within a period of 6 months, according to State law, you cannot take any action at all against a Houston police officer, unless he is indicted or found guilty. Mr. BADILLO. One of the articles that appeared in the newspaper quotes you as saying wiretapping was so widespread that I would suggest that anyone in political life has probably been listened to. Could you describe more in detail what you mean by that? Mr. LYNN. I am not totally sure I made that statement, but there has been a lot of statements that have been attributed to me that I didn't make. But, I would say that that is probably true. Mr. BADILLO. Well, what you mean that almost anyone in political life has been listened to? Does that mean the mayor, the Congressman from the area? Mr. LYNN. Oh, I think that the-that any person in a controversial position, which probably includes anyone in political life, I believe that they have been, in many instances, wiretapped on a fairly regular basis. Mr. BADILLO. And who would be doing this wiretapping? Mr. LYNN. Sometimes it would be people who would have a private interest. There are many people in the field of wiretapping who are not police officers. There are many private people who do this. Mr. BADILLO. Well, do you think it was the police department that was doing the wiretapping of the mayor or the Congressman? Or was it the wiretapping where it was done, but the police with the FBI sitting and listening in, as you stated? Mr. LYNN. On that particular statement, as I said, I don't recall making that particular statement, but I think that it really would depend upon the Congressman, upon who the mayor was, upon who had the control, upon what was happening at the time. I would believe that if you had knowledge that you were transmitting over your telephone, that someone wanted bad enough, that it would not be too hard to obtain it. Mr. BADILLO. Well, when this fellow came into your office and discussed wiretapping where he said it damn sure was controlled, and you have a long recorded discussion, did you ask him whether the wiretapping included wiretapping of political figures? Mr. LYNN. On that particular man, I am—I don't recall if I asked him that question or not. I haven't reviewed those transcripts since I turned them over to the U.S. attorney's office. I don't recall. Mr. BADILLO. Well, who has told you, and I don't mean the name, but who has told you that there was wiretapping of political figures? Mr. LYNN. I have had people in the police department tell me, in their opinion, there was. I have had people on the outside, people who were themselves wiretappers, tell me that this was a fairly common practice. Mr. BADILLO. And who did they say was doing it? Did they say it was being done by the police department? Mr. LYNN. Sometimes; but sometimes it was being done by people in private industry and private life. Mr. BADILLO. And sometimes it was done by the police? Mr. LYNN. That was my information. That is what I was told. Mr. BADILLO. Now, when you say that people have followed your friends in the last few days before you came before this committee, have you started an investigation to ascertain who is doing this? Mr. LYNN. Well, it is a very difficult job to start an investigation on this, although we have Mr. BADILLO. Well, isn't that the normal thing for the police? I mean, I am worried that a chief of police suffers all of this. We, as individuals, might not be concerned, but when it happens to the chief of police and no action is taken, then the feeling of helplessness, I think, is a matter of major concern. Mr. LYNN. I think when you are in any top office, as I am and you are, you are probably, in some areas, in a very weakened position. Any action I take that would appear to protect me would be probably blown clear out of proportion by some of the people that are in the media and some of the things you just have to, I think, learn to take and accept. Although, very quietly, in some people's spare time, we have been looking into some of this. Mr. BADILLO. Have you asked the U.S. attorney to investigate the efforts that have been made to try to keep you from testifying? Mr. LYNN. No, sir. I have not. Mr. BADILLO. No further questions, at this time, Mr. Chairman. Mr. KASTENMEIER. In which case, the committee thanks you for your testimony, Chief Lynn. And there may be further questions for you. But at this particular point, we will ask to come forward Mr. Anthony Farris, former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Texas from the year 1969 to 1975. 57-282-76-pt. 1--27 Mr. Farris, may I ask you to raise your hand, sir. Do you swear that that which you are about to tell the committee is the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Mr. FARRIS. I do. Mr. KASTENMEIER. Thank you, sir. You may sit down, and you have a statement, Mr. Farris. Mr. FARRIS. Yes, I do. Mr. KASTENMEIER. And you may begin, Mr. Farris. TESTIMONY OF ANTHONY J. P. FARRIS, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS Mr. FARRIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Anthony J. P. Farris, and I am an attorney with Farris, Pain and Horne in Houston. From February 14, 1969, to December 30, 1974, I served as U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Texas, with the principal office in Houston. The district is the eighth largest of the 94, and Houston is the fifth largest city in the country. During my tenure, my office had the following successful prosecutorial record: 1969 through 1974, a 98.63 successful percentage for the 6 years; brought more successful civil and criminal pollution litigation (principally under the Refuse Act of 1899) than all my predecessors put together; increased the collection efforts of the office from a low of $455,303 to a high of $2,036,865 for a 6-year total of $7,944,427; remained in the top five in total narcotics prosecutions for 6 years and was first 1 year; more active civil rights cases than all my predecessors; and handled diverse and complicated civil cases successfully. All this in spite of a higher caseload per lawyer than all the seven U.S. attorneys offices, larger in size, than Houston. I also hired more minorities. than all my predecessors put together. I give you the above facts and figures, all being of record and all easy to check, because of the importance of your committee-also, I may not have another such opportunity. The above very successful record was put together with a staff that reached a peak of 32 lawyers, with at least 20 having no previous experience when they joined the office. Mr. Chairman, I long have resented hearing and reading remarks attributed to Federal judges from the district court to the Supreme Court level, to corporation lawyers in the ABA, and to Members of both Houses of Congress, questioning the ability of these fine young men and women. Many of these fine young lawyers, in every judicial district, consistently take the measure of some of the best criminal defense lawyers and some of the best big firm lawyers in the country. I might also add that most of the critics have never-repeat never tried a criminal case on either side of the docket. Thank you for allowing me the time to get that off my chest. I understand I am here to testify about allegations of illegal wiretapping by law enforcement authorities in Houston, Tex., about allegations of illegal wiretapping by Federal authorities in Houston, and about the degree of aggressiveness in investigating and prosecuting these alleged violations. First, tax evasion investigations in these matters were commenced by the IRS in 1971 and culminated in the conviction of Sebastian |