Mr. KELLEY. Mr. Obenchain had immediate charge of these things and I took my instructions from him. Senator WALSH of Montana. Of course, you were not superior to the commisisoner. Mr. KELLEY. I did not take any instructions from the commissioner. I never consulted with him. I consulted with Mr. Obenchain, who is the man who has these matters in charge at the Land Office, and all officials in the Land Office, all clerks and law clerks, go to Obenchain for instructions. Senator WALSH of Montana. Of course, all clerks and law clerks, but all clerks and law clerks were not told by the Secretary to come there and take charge of oil-shale matters, were they? Mr. KELLEY. No. Senator WALSH of Montana. What I want to know is why you did not assume the authority which the Secretary apparently invested you with. Mr. KELLEY. The commissioner, Senator, I beg your pardon. I did what work, Senator, there was to do. Senator WALSH of Montana. Well, I have just been handed this statement of the status of unpatented oil-shale claims pending November 1, 1930, 63 cases, embracing 453 claims, covering 68,168.22 acres; five of these embracing 21 claims, covering 5,156.76 acres were favorably reported on in Kelley's initial report. His recommendations were sustained and in these five cases there are no issues between the Government and the claimant or field reports. It appears then that on November 1, at least, there were 63 cases pending before the General Land Office involving 453 claims, covering an area of over 68,000 acres. Now, was there nothing to do on those claims? Mr. KELLEY. No; practically nothing, Senator. The Land Office had acted on those cases. Senator WALSH of Montana. Well, Mr. Kelley, what do you mean by saying the Land Office had acted? Mr. KELLEY. They had acted on the applications and had either cleared them or had directed adverse proceedings against them, and those proceedings were pending. There was nothing that I could do or anyone else could do while those cases were pending. Senator WALSH of Montana. Well now, maybe I have a wrong idea about pending. My idea about a case pending is a case that has not been determined. Mr. KELLEY. That has not been patented. That is the proper term, Senator, that is used in the department, any case which has not been patented is pending. Senator WALSH of Montana. And, the question is, "Shall it be patented"? Pending cases are those which have not been patented. Mr. KELLEY. Practically all of those, as I have stated, Senator, were acted upon. Senator WALSH of Montana. That is, either the commissioner's office had decided to issue patents, or had decided not to issue patents? Mr. KELLEY. They were held up. There were some 35,000 acres, Senator, that were under charges, pending hearing, in a large number of applications while I was in the Land Office here in Washington. Those charges were preferred by me. Senator WALSH of Montana. And, they were out in your office then, in Denver, for hearing? Mr. KELLEY. They were pending there but they would not permit me to go to hearing on them. Senator WALSH of Montana. That is another matter that is outside from this that we are trying to find out about now. You came here and you just assumed the position of a clerk in the office, apparently. Mr. KELLEY. All letters that were written by other law clerks on oil shale, came to me for examination and initialing, and to that extent, Senator, I had supervision over those. If I did not approve the letter, why I took it up with Mr. Obenchain. Senator WALSH of Montana. We have that much now, at least. Mr. KELLEY. That was all there was to it. Senator WALSH of Montana. That you had charge of oil-shale matters to this extent, that whatever any of the other clerks did came under your supervision and had to be initialed by you. Mr. KELLEY. That is correct. I stated that at the beginning, I think, of my testimony. Senator WALSH of Montana. Yes. Well, you took no initiative whatever then; the staff distributed the work around to the clerks and the clerks took whatever action they thought was the proper action in the matter and wrote, and their work then came on your desk. Mr. KELLEY. When I arrived in Washington, Senator, nearly all of the work had been assigned. Those assignments were not changed. Senator WALSH of Montana. Exactly. Mr. KELLEY. But, as new matters came in, which were exceedingly scarce, they were referred to me for action by myself or I could refer them to some other clerk if I wished. Senator WALSH of Montana. That is to say, the mail would come in and whenever mail came in relating to oil-shale matters it was put upon your desk and you either dispatched them or referred them to some of the subordinate clerks. Mr. KELLEY. That is correct. Senator WALSH of Montana. Well, then, apparently, you were in charge then of oil-shale matters, Mr. Kelley? Mr. KELLEY. Well, I don't understand just what that means, Senator. I had to act under the supervision of Mr. Obenchain and I did what he requested me to do. We Senator WALSH of Montana. Supervision to what extent? have it right now when the mail came in containing any matter in relation to oil-shale claims, that matter was put upon your desk and you disposed of it. Either you took care of it yourself or assigned it to somebody else to take charge of it. What did Mr. Obenchain have to do with it? Mr. KELLEY. Most of those matters required consultation with him. Senator WALSH of Montana. Well, now, if it was first laid upon your desk, it came under your notice first, and you felt obliged under certain circumstances to confer with Mr. Obenchain in relation to the matter? Mr. KELLEY. Exactly. Senator WALSH of Montana. So, you called Mr. Obenchain into consultation with you on the matter? Mr. KELLEY. Exactly. Senator WALSH of Montana. Apparently you were in charge of things, then, Mr. Kelley? Mr. KELLEY. To what extent, Senator? Senator WALSH of Montana. To what extent? That is what I am trying to find out. I am trying to find out if there was anyone else in the office to whom whatever oil-shale business there was was entrusted, superior to you or even coordinate with you. Mr. KELLEY. Not any clerk. There was only one other clerk, Senator, I believe, handling oil-shale work besides myself. Senator WALSH of Montana. I am not speaking about clerks now. I am not speaking about clerks. I don't care how you designate— I thought we had one thing established, that whatever oil-shale matters came in, the mail was distributed to those who were charged with the duty of looking after different matters, and all oil-shale matters came on your desk. Mr. KELLEY. That is correct. Senator WALSH of Montana. And, in that connection you either disposed of it yourself or you assigned it to other clerks, if that is the proper term, to look after in the first place, and whatever work they did came then from them upon your desk for check, and in the meantime, if you found any occasion to do so, you consulted with Mr. Obenchain concerning the matters before you. Mr. KELLEY. Exactly. Senator WALSH of Montana. Have I stated it correctly? Senator WALSH of Montana. Very good. Now, was there any time when you were there that you found fault with that course of procedure? Mr. KELLEY. There was nothing to find fault with, Senator. Senator WALSH of Montana. And, you did not find fault with it? Mr. KELLEY. With nothing. Senator WALSH of Montana. Now, if I get you right now, then, Mr. Kelley, what you feel about this matter, and what you contend it, that there was really nothing of consequence to do in the office at Washington, and you were called here as kind of an excuse for getting you out of the Denver office? Mr. KELLEY. Exactly. Senator WALSH of Montana. That is the way you feel about it? Mr. KELLEY. That is the case; yes. Senator GLENN. Of course, everything in the Denver office finally came to Washington to be acted on under your supervision, isn't that right? Mr. KELLEY. That is true. 46780-31-20 Senator WALSH of Montana. So that whatever came in in the way of applications for patents to these oil-shale claims, would, if you remained in Washington, come under your supervision and your recommendation? Mr. KELLEY. That is true. I would like to very much to make a statement. Senator WALSH of Montana. Not at this point, Mr. Kelley. I want to clear up the matter we are pursuing. The CHAIRMAN. Let that come in its order after this particular matter has been completed. The committee will recess until 10 o'clock to-morrow morning. (Whereupon, at 11 o'clock a. m., the committee recessed until Friday, February 27, 1931, at 10 o'clock a. m.) OIL SHALE LANDS FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 1931 UNITED STATES SENATE, COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS AND SURVEYS, Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to the recess, at 10 o'clock a. m., in the committee room of the Committee on Interstate Commerce, Capitol, Senator Gerald P. Nye presiding. Present: Senators Nye (chairman), Glenn, and Walsh of Montana. Present also: Hon. Edward C. Finney, solicitor, Department of the Interior; Northcutt Ely, executive assistant to the Secretary of the Interior; U. E. Goerner, Esq., assistant law examiner, General Land Office. Senator GLENN. I have here some statements from officers and employees of the New York World, and photostatic copies of statements by various officers and employees of the New York World, and photostatic copies of telegrams and letters concerning their negotiations with Mr. Kelley. Senator WALSH of Montana. I haven't the slightest objection to putting those in the record, but I was going to suggest to you that the probabilities are there will be no controversy about that at all. Senator GLENN. I think it will be best to have them incorporated in the record. These are photostatic copies furnished by the New York World in response to a letter from the Secretary, and the originals were brought to me by Mr. Thurston of the New York World that I might go over them and see whether or not the subpoeaning of the witnesses from New York might be avoided. Senator WALSH of Montana. Very well. Senator GLENN. These editorials from the World, I do not think they are in the record, are they? Senator WALSH of Montana. No. Senator GLENN. I would like to have these photostatic copies of the New York World, concerning this oil-shale situation, incorporated in the record, and photostatic copies of certain placards used to advertise the stories, and here are some copies of documents and excerpts from diaries of the commissioner of the General Land Office, and some sick leave cards, photostatic copies of sick leave applications and permits, and things of that character, that I would like to have incorporated in the record. I think that is perhaps all except there is one sheet that does not explain what it was, and I would like to have these documents incorporated in the record in their chronological order. 303 |