and he used this tobacco to hunt for deer. He lived way up in the northern part of Wisconsin, and he and his family lived off the land.

He made a prayer one morning to go out and get a deer to feed his family, and he went out in the woods on a winter morning, and about the middle of the day the clouds started coming in and it started to snow, and the snow got heavier. During the latter part of the day he shot a deer, and he wasn't able to get that deer out of the woods that evening because of the storm. He had to leave it there. Later on, he found out that it was left there for a reason, but at the time he didn't know what that reason was.

The next day he went back to get that deer, and when he returned he found that there was a large number of eagles that were feasting on this deer, and through his spirituality and through his belief in the Creator he came to understand that this deer that he caught was for the eagles; this deer was food for them because of the harsh winter that they had that particular year. Through that, an eagle gave itself to him; an eagle presented itself to him.

The way that things are today and the way that the laws are written today, I guess it would be an illegal activity, I guess it would be against the law for him to take this eagle. However, he did take this eagle in a spiritual sense, and today they use it in their ceremonies, they pray with it, and they use it in their everyday life.

I would like to thank you for this time to present this testimony to you, and I submit it for the record on behalf of the Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin.

[Prepared statement of Mr. Powless follows:]

TESTIMONY OF THE ONEIDA TRIBE OF INDIANS OF WISCONSIN

I would like to take this opportunity to extend the greetings on behalf of the Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin. I would also like to thank you for the opportunity to offer testimony on behalf of my people on the need for Federal legislation to protect our rights and the free exercise of our religious beliefs as Native American people.

In 1978, the United States Government passed the American Religious Freedom Act for the purpose of protecting and preserving the right of tribal religious freedom. It has become very evident that policies alone are not sufficient in the protection of our rights. We are therefore recommending in the strongest terms possible that the Congress amend the American Indian Religious Freedom Act to help protect and preserve our basic human right to exercise our religious beliefs without fear from the dominant society.

Today, it is ironic that we must convey these words on behalf of our people as the early settlers and immigrants known as colonists came to our country because in Europe they had been persecuted for exercising religious beliefs. In fact, they came here in search of religious freedom. We have suffered many times over at the hands of the Europeans. The ultimate insult is the harm to our spiritual being that we have endured for centuries. we can cite many injustices as I am sure my brothers will. However, we come here today to extend our hand in peace so that we might make a better day for our children. Let it be known that the Oneida Tribe of Indians

of Wisconsin strongly encourages this Subcommittee to swiftly take action to amend the 1973 Act to protect our religious freedom.

We are told as Oneida that we must act on behalf of the next seven generations of people yet to come. It is with that thought that we convey these good words to you. We hope and pray that these words will be received with the utmost sincerity of our hearts and minds.

RELIGIOUS USE OF EAGLE FEATHERS

As you all may know, the eagle is perhaps the most sacred of all animals to Indian people. It is the only animal that is closest to the Creator. Through the generations the eagle has watched over the Iroquois people and has warned us of any danger and has cured us of many ills.

There are three types of eagles which are held to be sacred by Indian people, the Bald, the Golden, and the Spotted. Tail feathers are a frequently used in ceremonial rights including curing the individual spiritually, physically, and mentally.

For example, it is often the case that tribal members seek more traditional ways to help alleviate the pain caused from a loved one passing away. Eagle feathers are rubbed on the grieving persons ears, around the eye lids, the mouth, and over ones head to help the individual overcome their loss.

Eagle feathers are also used during the burial ceremony. Often times feathers are placed in the casket of the deceased helping the spirit of the deceased persons' journey to the creators land.

Often it is the case that Native American vets are honored with presentations of eagle feathers in recognition of their heroic deeds in the service of their country. These feathers have generally passed on from generation to generation.

Now Mr. chairman, you ask "How do the Indians come across such eagle feathers?" In the traditional way a person would fast for four days and nights in a place of solitude-generally out in the wild. At some point during the fasting period the person would be blessed with an eagle. Through the sincerity of the prayer, an eagle would give themselves to the person.

It is this ceremony which has most often been misunderstood by the general public. To some people this act would be considered contrary to the preservation of the eagle, and therefore, against the law. However, in our religious practices such ceremony is considered to be the highest form of sacrifice. These are not illegal actions, but the continuation of our spiritual way of life. These are the actions which you in Congress are obligated to uphold on behalf of the Native American people.

CONCLUSION

As you may know the Senate has introduced legislation amending the 1978 Act. The Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin has reviewed the amendment and fully supports its passage. We would strongly encourage this Subcommittee to follow a similar path.

We as Native American people have understood that we are related to the animals. As far back as we can remember we have always held the animal world with the highest regard, as the animals are our helpers and relatives. It is within this regard that we

have come here today to speak in behalf of our right to exercise our religious beliefs. We have been given original instructions on how we are to live while here on Mother Earth. These instructions come from our creator and have been handed down from generation to generation. we have always worshipped our creator with the utmost respect and sincerity. Additionally, the animal world has always been a part of our spiritual way of life. We hope and pray that this way of worship may continue for generations to come. Mr. RICHARDSON. Thank you very much.

Chairman Masayesva, let me ask you a delicate question. I know that with your tribe and the large concentration of Native American tribes in Arizona, you are aware many tribes have sacred sites which are on the reservation of a different tribe. Do you have any suggestions for us as to how this subcommittee and the Congress should address this delicate issue, or should we stay out of it?

Chairman MASAYESVA. I believe the way to handle that-and this is the way we are handling it with the president of the Navajo Nation-is, we feel that rather than writing rules and regulations that protect the rights of religious leaders' access to their sacred sites, that it is critical that the leaders of both nations bring the elders of both nations together, educate each other, to remind each other of the importance of the religious pilgrimages that Hopis undertake annually to their sites. Through this type of dialogue, respect would be established, and that, to us, is a better approach than through a legislative resolution.

But wherever there are flagrant incidents of interference with the religious rights of the elders, there ought to be some type of penalty, and I think this would be acceptable to both Hopis and Navajos.

But we are planning to hold a meeting of the elders very shortly because we will be starting our eagle pilgrimages in about another couple of months. We have done this for a couple of years, and last year for the first time there was no incident reported anywhere where Hopis went out on pilgrimage, and we hope that the dialogue between the two nations will put to permanent rest any kind of interruptions with the pilgrimages.

So I feel that, let's sit down face to face and talk and understand each other, and then tell our people, educate our kids, so they can carry on that respect. To me, that is the best way.

Mr. RICHARDSON. That is a very good suggestion, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Powless, do you have any views on that issue?

Mr. POWLESs. Mr. Chairman, I believe that the tribes that have these sacred sites within their lands ought to have the freedom to exercise utilization of these sites.

I was related a story a while back about one of these sacred sites. A university wanted to put a telescope on top of this mountain where the sacred site was.

Mr. RICHARDSON. Was that Mount Graham?

Mr. POWLESS. Yes.

In the course of putting this telescope on, they had to put a huge cement foundation down, and apparently through the efforts of the construction people there they bulldozed over the sacred site to lay down this concrete block to set this telescope on. I think that is a travesty, and I think it is a dereliction of the United States' respon

sibility to protect our sacred sites, and I think we need legislation to protect that.

Mr. RICHARDSON. A very good point.

Let me ask Ms. Atkinson: How do we resolve the current access problem to bald eagles? Do you think we should do it through legisÎation, or should we do it through regulations and agency policy changes? What would be your view on how we resolve the access issue?

Ms. ATKINSON. Probably the most effective way would be through legislation directing the current administration or the current Fish and Wildlife Service to review its policies and looking at ways that it can streamline the current process. I fear that if we leave it just to regulation that it may not get done without some sort of directive that this sort of review and modification of policy needs to

occur.

Mr. RICHARDSON. Mr. Powless, is that your view also? You touched on the eagles issue.

Mr. POWLESS. Yes. I would like to add that I also feel that there should be a provision that would allow the tribe also to regulate an activity, and I believe that they should have the authority also through their governmental authorities to provide access to eagles within their jurisdiction through, I believe, legislation that would be compatible with that.

Mr. RICHARDSON. Chairman Masayesva, does the tribe currently have any major access problems relating to the eagle issue right now?

Chairman MASAYESVA. Not in public lands like national forests. The Bureau of Land Management, we have an agreement with them where they cooperate with the Hopi religious leaders in gathering eaglets, and we have an arrangement where we are allowed to take only a certain number every year. So we have close cooperative relations with the United States Government.

The area where we had problems was primarily on Hopi partitioned lands, Navajo partitioned lands, and in the Navajo 1934 reservation where several of our people were arrested by the Navajo police about 3 years ago, but those, hopefully, are incidents that have now been put to rest through a dialogue between the two tribes.

Mr. RICHARDSON. Let me again thank you for appearing. It has been a very good, strong panel, and again, my apologies to the Hopi chairman. My thanks to all of you, and please extend our best to Chairman Hill. I think, Mr. Powless, you represented him very well.

Mr. POWLESs. Thank you.

Mr. RICHARDSON. Ms. Atkinson, thank you very much panel number three.

Now, panel number four. We would like to call Mr. Ben Carnes from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma; and Mr. Bud Johnston of the Pipestone Indian Community in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, I understand a constituent of Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson has recognized you. I want to thank both of you for coming.

As you know, the subcommittee will insert your full statements in the record, and we ask that you summarize, observing the fiveminute rule.

Mr. Carnes, please proceed.

PANEL CONSISTING OF BEN CARNES, CHAHTA NATION, DIRECTOR, SPIRITUAL ALLIANCE FOR NATIVE PRISONERS, OKLAHOMA CITY, OK; AND BUD JOHNSTON, ENROLLED MEMBER, BAD RIVER, NORTHERN WISCONSIN, CHIPPEWA, ON BEHALF OF THE PIPESTONE NATIVE AMERICAN COMMU NITY, SIOUX FALLS, SD

STATEMENT OF BEN CARNES

Mr. CARNES. My name is Ben Carnes. I am of the Chahta Nation, from a place that we call the Native Territories and other people call Oklahoma.

On August 11, 1978, we thought we had time and reason to celebrate because they had passed a law guaranteeing us our right to practice and pray in our traditional ways. It seems like within the last few years we have an attack upon our religious beliefs. So we thank you for this opportunity to fix an Act that has not worked for us.

Myself, I am a convicted felon, and also as a juvenile I spent almost two-thirds of my past life in juvenile and adult detention facilities. Throughout those times in these places, I began to discover my identity as a Native person and also began to discover the history of my people and all my relatives from across this country here, about the abuses that went on early in the 1800s with the land thefts. Everything that went on there was terrible, and it had such a very devastating effect upon me, discovering who I am, that I began to indulge in several years of drug abuse and alcoholism and also justified my criminal activities by stating that it was because the white man stole my land from my and I've got a right to take whatever I want. That was my rationalization for whatever I did during that time.

In 1978, I entered the Oklahoma Department of Corrections for a 2-year sentence for second-degree burglary, and it was there that I met more of my relatives from the western parts of the United States, or Oklahoma, our Native Territories, and these were the people who were of the Kiowa Nation, Cheyenne Nation, Apaches, Comanches, and from them I learned about our ceremonies, about the Native American Church, and I learned about the beauty of the traditional pow-wows or dances there, where people come to socialize and celebrate the birth of somebody's family or the passing of somebody's family. These were things that were not taught to me because I was raised in a non-Indian atmosphere with their values, and I was baptized as a Presbyterian when I was two years old.

At that time, when I began to discover all my religious identity as a Native person, Christianity meant nothing to me then, but I was very angry that I had no identity. I was on this path of selfdestruction for a number of years until I entered the prison system in 1981 with a 12-year sentence for second-degree burglary and a 10-year sentence for knowingly selling stolen property, which were concurrent.

I was sent to Younger Prison in Oklahoma until I was involved in a barricade riot in the east cell house of the state reformatory, and I was sent to the state penitentiary in McAlester and put in