others were washed and used for anything handy around there, and in the Warden's honse you will find four or five carpets made of them. I had no money to buy carpets with, and the old carpets were worn

out.

Q. That is in your house? A. Yes sir.

Have you been in the habit of selling any of it? A. I don't think there was very much of it ever sold, possibly a little of it has been sold. There has been more given away of the old rags. More given away-ten times-than was sold.

૨. They were used for scrub rags around? A. Yes sir. Q. Have you any idea of how much has been sold?

I have not.

A. Indeed,

Q. Do you know what was done with the proceeds of the sale? A. No! I don't know, but sometimes I recollect, I think, of getting thirty cents myself. I don't remember, I don't really, of ten dollars worth being sold since I have been there.

Q. None of those, however, that were sold were credited up to the State? A. What?

Q. None of it that was sold was credited up to the State? A. Not to my knowledge. I don't remember. I don't think there was.

Q. Does'nt this cast-off clothing during the year amount to a good deal-quite a large amount?

A. Yes.

Q. There is quite a large pile of it during the year? amounts perhaps to a large pile of old rags-woolen rags.

A. Yes, it

Q. These light summer stripes you speak of, are the same class of stripes that are worn in the winter ? A. Except lighter-yes.

Q. Only they are lighter? A. Yes.

Q. That is, the chain is cotton and the filling wool, I believe?

Yes sir.

Q. The other is intended to be all wool? A. Yes sir.

A.

Q. The undershirts and the shirts they wear in summer are made of check? A. Hickory, generally. I have used a little check, but mostly hickory.

Q. And in the winter time they wore a striped shirt? sir, under the other.

A. Yes

Q. What became of the old shirts and old bed clothing. A. They used a great deal of them about the cook house, for dish rags, and such things as that, and some of the old shirts are taken to patch better ones. When they get so they are of no use any longer, then they are used principally to patch others.

Q. There is quite a large amount of cuttings at the tailor shop, was there not? A. Of striped goods?

Q. Yes. A. Yes, there are some cuttings there.

Q. Do you know what became of them? A. I did'nt pay any attention. I have employed some of the superannuated in cutting and making these carpet rags, that I have used for the Warden's house. The small pieces are taken and given to each shop, with a needle and thread, to patch their clothing with; and the amount of clippings I don't know; I never paid any attention. Each shop is provided with needles and thread, and a man goes out and gets himself a needle and thread, and we allow him to patch his clothing.

Q. These keepers, as you call them, are kept there for safe keeping,

and when they go out do you furnish them with turn out suits? A. Yes, when they need it. I have some who have come here with a suit of clothes that was good, and they have put the stripes on; we would save the suit and give them out. Whenever a suit of clothes was fit

to give out we would give them a suit.

Q. Which do you mean, for safe-keepers that you did this with or United States prisoners; safe-keepers, or State prisoners? A. Both. Q. Then these turn out suits such as you gave United States soldiers-safe keepers, who did you charge that to? A. The United States.

Q. That is, for safe-keepers for the State of Iowa, you charged the State of Iowa? Didn't it very frequently happen that you had a man come in that had a good suit when he arrived and you put on the stripes? A. Yes.

Q. Very frequently the sheriff furnishes a suit when they are brought into trial and they wear that suit here? A. Sometimes, but

it is very seldom that a good suit comes on a prisoner.

Q. And in those cases do you furnish them with another turn out suit? A. Yes; often prisoners come and state that they have borrowed clothes, and asked that they be sent back again. Sometimes they ask to have them sent to their family by the sheriff or by express.

Q. You make it a universal rule to furnish every prisoner that goes to the Penitentiary when he goes out, with a turn out suit? A. As a rule, when a man comes for a short term with a decent suit we box it up and save it until he goes out. If a man has a decent suit and comes for a long time, most generally they are sent back to his people and his family.

Q. By the way, what is done with this old clothing that the prison. ers quit wearing there? A. A great deal of it is burned right there and then in the wash house, all that is filthy or has any vermin on. It don't matter whether it is good, bad or indifferent, a good suit we would burn as quick as a bad one if they have any lice on; we have burned up a great many. The pieces of clothing are saved and given to the prisoners, and the second quality unfit to turn out prisoners with, and not any vermin on, we give away. I have given away a great many suits to the poor; we carried it into the front yard and gave it to the poor.

Q. You have never sold that for old clothing? A. No sir.

Q. In speaking of these rags, Doctor, are those carpets in your house all that were made or manufactured of this old clothing and stuff? A. No sir; I gave my niece rags enough to make her a carpet, and I think I have given rags to one or two widow women-yes, a half a dozen of them. I recollect a widow lady whose son comes up there as a Sunday school teacher, she asked to buy some; I said no, your son earns enough coming here to teach Sunday school; I have given away here to the women a good many.

Q. These suits of clothes Doctor, that you issue, are always new suits; you have never issued those suits that are worn; they are always new suits, none partly worn excepting once in a while a short time man you save his old suit? A. Except I save those.

Q. Now, doctor, you kept a book which shows the date of every discharged prisoner-the time every prisoner is discharged. A. I think

So.

We have our register in the yard; I think that shows. Now we enter them up with the diminution of time that he is going to save it and enter up the full time. Men have sometimes been kept over. I have men come in together who desired to go out together, and I thought best, in such cases, that I would separate them. I have let one go out and held the other a week, owing to his deportment while in there, may be two weeks, and may be a month, and I have furnished suits-I have furnished suits of clothes which went on to prisoners used as witnesses, and they traded their suits off while they were gone. Here is a United States man that I sent to Keokuk at the last term of court and I gave him a new suit, and when he came back he had the most filthy and ragged suit you ever saw.

Q. That is charged to the United States? A. Yes, when a prisoner goes as a witness, he may come back with a filthy suit of clothes. Q. Who takes these witnesses out when they go out? A. The Sheriff, under order of the Court.

Q. And you send nobody along-nobody has charge of the pris oner except the Sheriff? A. No, sir, that's all.

Q. This prisoner that went to Keokuk, was a United States prisoner? A. Yes.

Q. In whose charge was he? A. The Marshals.

Q. What was the name of the Marshal? A. Root, is the Deputy here. I don't remember whether Root was the man or not. We sometimes delivered them to a special Marshal, sent with special authority. Q. What was the prisoner's name? A. Pietro. He is here now, a prisoner.

Q. Did you ever charge up to the Sheriff the suit, or give any instructions to look out for that suit? A. No, sir; I never charged the Sheriff with anything.

Q. These suits that these prisoners wear out with them are charged up to turn-out suits, I suppose? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And are a part of the account of turn out suits? A. Yes, sir. Q. You took a receipt from the prisoner when he goes out as a witness? A. No, sir.

Q.

Did you ever get a receipt for turn-out suits-for that suit? A. No, sir; I have never taken a receipt of that kind.

Q. You don't buy them when they are called out as a witness? You make it a rule to buy them new suits of clothes? A. Yes, sir; unless I have sent some out with a second hand suit, when I had them that would fit. But when I have none of the kind, I bought a new suit. Q. When these suits are returned, what do you do with them? A. Boxed them up. I don't know, but may be there is thirty or forty suits boxed up now, of short time men.

Q. Suits they have worn out?

A. I think some of them.

Q. You kept that suit for a turn out suit? A. For the first man that it will fit.

Q. Now when you furnished these prisoners with a suit, going away, you charged the State with that suit? A. Yes, it is charged on the bill.

Q. To the clothing account? When the person returned with the suit did you credit the State with the suit returned. A. No, it was just boxed up, and I used it.

on,

Q. Then you kept no memoranda of the suit that was furnished to each man when he goes out, whether it is one of those charged up to the State for the purpose of allowing the prisoner to go out to testify, or whether it is a new suit that you purchased for the man. A. No sir.

Q. What I want to arrive at is, how did you settle with the State for your turn out suits-with the Executive Council for your turn out suits-by your vouchers, or by just rendering up a bill against the State? A. On these monthly statements.

Q Then, in your monthly statements to the Executive Council a portion of the bill you have vouchers for, and for a portion that were allowed there will be no vouchers? A. If I bought a suit I took a voucher.

Q. That is if you buy a suit for a prisoner, of whom did you take this voucher? A. The man I bought it of.

Q. You took no voucher from the prisoner? A. No sir, I was ordered to bring two prisoners down, and the Judge would not allow them to appear in prisoners dress; he said they must have citizens dress. I had no way but to buy a couple of suits. These suits were returned and given out.

Q. Then you kept no acount of your suits with the State, excepting of your purchases. A. Yes, that is all.

Q. I believe I have understood you to say that the State sends quite a number of prisoners here from the different counties for safe keeping -dangerous men from counties where they have poor jails. A. Yes

sir.

Q. Did you keep a separate account of those prisoners sent here; have you any book in which you keep a separate account of those prisoners sent here for safe keeping? A. You will find on the books for what amount the counties were held responsible. It is charged, one county so much, and another so much.

Q. Then you rendered that bill to the county for their keeping here? A. Yes sir.

Q. And the counties pay you that bill? A. Yes, I have some bills that are due now.

Q. And then when you furnished these men with a suit when they went out; that is, those safe keepers--those sent here by the counties for safe keeping-to whom did you charge that suit? A. I think to the county; that is my impression. The clerk charges it to the county. Q. Did you pay these safe keepers this gift of five or three dollars? A. No sir.

Q. You did'nt give them that money? Did you to United States prisoners? A. On discharge.

Q. When discharged? A. Yes sir, the law requires me to.

Q. You furnished all five dollars? A. My rule has been-the law says not less than three or more than five-my general rule is, where a man has no money at all I gave him five dollars, and very few of them have money, so most of them get five dollars.

Q. To whom did you charge that gift? A. The State, out of the general support fund.

Q. These United States prisoners, who did you charge that to.

I suppose that my book keeper could answer that. My impression is that it goes in as a part of the bill.

Q. To the United States? A. Yes, sir.

These turn-out suits, which you turned out for the United States for safe keepers, were charged to the United States; and the safe keepers for the State, you say you think you charged those up to the coun ties? A. I think so.

Q. Did you render a bill directly to the county yourself, or did you have the State render a bill? A. I rendered the bill directly to the county.

Q. And then you make no account on your books here at all of those suits, one way or the other? A. Not to my recollection.

Q. You first charged the State so much for the suits; you kept a debit and credit account with the State that is not kept with you individually? A. No, sir; it is with the State.

Q. When a prisoner comes here as a safe keeper from a county he is fed out of the prison fare, as I understand? A. Yes.

Q. With everybody else? A. Yes.

Q. Did you generally put stripes on them? A. That depended altogether on their election. If they decide to remain in the cell they can do so and wear their citizens dress. If they prefer to go out into the shops they must put stripes on, and must shave. That is the rule.

Q. Then as far as being among the prisoners is concerned, their expense and everything else comes out of the State? A. Yes; out of the general support fund, out of the general supplies, and when they are there you render an account against the county in the name of the State.

Q. That is, you as the Warden of the penitentiary? A. Yes, sir. Q. And when you bought clothing for these fellows, you said you charged the State with them, did you not? A. That goes in with my bill of purchases, and when I settled with the man I bought of I took

his voucher.

Q. In other words, it is first charged up to the State? A. Yes; goes in, but I take a voucher for it.

Q. The same as you do for any other purchase, in the name of the State? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then afterward you charged the county with them, and when you collected the bill you credited the State with the amount of that bill? A. So much received from that county. That is my understanding; that is the way it is done. The expenses of the safe keepers charged to the county, and we make out the account or bill quarterly, owing to how long they are here. Sometimes they are here a month; sometimes six months. We have had them here longer. We make out the bill to the county. When that bill is collected it is credited to the State; so much received from whatever county it is.

Q. You kept, as between the State and the county, no debit and credit account. All you did was when you received that amount from the county you simply gave the State credit for that amount? A. Yes,

sir.

Q. You don't know how the book-keeper originally charged or kept this account with the county, whether in the name of the State originally, as I understand? A. When a safe keeper was sent away? Q. Yes, sir.

૨. Yes, sir. A. No; he is entered as a safe keeper, and whatever expense we were to we charged the county with the same as the United States, a half a dollar a day.