The CHAIRMAN. Going back to the statements and the colloquy held by Mr. Lennon and Mr. Downing with the witness with respect to extending this to the 12-mile limit, I merely ask the two gentlemen whether or not they would think it advisable in this bill to proceed with that limitation or confine ourselves to the 3-mile limit here and then introduce a different bill over here extending it to the 12-mile limit and bring the State Department and other interested parties here to testify on that proposal?

Mr. LENNON. I think that is the proper way to proceed, Mr. Chairman. It should not be included in this.

The CHAIRMAN. This immediate question needs attention now and extending the 12-mile limit brings in a broader field that we should go into soon since other nations of the world are looking for the 12-mile limit and are passing legislation respecting the 12-mile limit.

Mr. DOWNING. I agree with you, Mr. Chairman. I think this ought to be the subject of a separate hearing but it should be done because it is obviously needed and it is important that we do it. Perhaps it is better now to go ahead with the 3-mile territorial limit and figure on hearings later on extending it to 12 miles.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Goodling.

Mr. GOODLING. Admiral, I am not at all certin, but how are territorial waters determined?

Admiral ROLAND. Traditionally, it is not established by statute. I think the first statement of the 3-mile territorial limit for the United States was made by Thomas Jefferson and it still stands.

Mr. GOODLING. Then the territorial waters of the United States and other countries are not uniform?

Admiral ROLAND. Well, the 3-mile limit is generally recognized in international law but I don't think very many countries have the law in their statutes although I do not say that none of them do. I believe that generally it is established by executive act and I think this is what is to happen in the case of Great Britain.

Mr. GOODLING. I believe Mr. Lennon just said that Canada has a 12-mile limit. Is that correct?

Admiral ROLAND. Yes; Canada has indicated its intention to extend its jurisdiction for fishing to 12 miles.

Mr. PELLY. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. GOODLING. I yield.

Mr. PELLY. I have read that Canada is considering it and has declared her intention but I believe there would be provisions which would allow U.S. fishermen to fish where they historically have fished. Mr. TUPPER. Will the gentleman yield further?

The 12-mile limit in respect to fishing will be put into effect in Canada in May of this year. There are discussions now between the two Governments to grant reciprocal rights for U.S. fishermen in Canadian waters, I believe.

Mr. GOODLING. Admiral, I am not a navigator but does this supposition pose any problems for you? Suppose you find a ship a half mile on one side or the other of our territorial waters, can you always determine exactly where you are?

Admiral ROLAND. We have to determine or we have to be sure of our grounds. In most cases, we can determine the 3-mile limit pretty exactly by the means we have for navigation now. For instance, we

know in the case of the Cuban fishing boats that one of them was 1.9 miles off the shore.

Mr. GOODLING. How about our neighbors to the south? What do they have so far as territorial waters are concerned?

Admiral ROLAND. Well, in some cases, 3 miles, but the Mexicans have 9 miles, and several others have limits ranging from 6 to 200 miles.

The CHAIRMAN. I think, Mr. Goodling, if you will let me interrupt you at this point, I will read this letter from the State Department and then put the letter in the record. The letter is addressed to the Chair:

During the course of hearings on S. 1988 on February 20 you requested certain information concerning the jurisdiction claimed by other countries over territorial waters and fishing. This information is from the survey made by the United Nations Secretariat at the time of the 1960 Law of the Sea Conference and modified by any specific information received since that time (all distances given are from the shore or baselines):

And it goes on to give these countries.

You are speaking about Canada. It lists Canada:

However, Canada has announced plans to extend jurisdiction over fishing to 12 miles in May 1964.

I am going to put this letter in the record, but it goes on to give countries: Albania, 10 miles; Algeria, 12 miles; Cambodia, 5 miles; Cameroon, 6 miles; Costa Rica, 200 miles; Ecuador, 12 miles, 200 miles fishing.

I merely point these out as excerpts or samples taken from this letter.

Iceland, 4 miles territorial sea, 12 miles fishing; India, 6 miles territorial sea, 100 miles fishing; Korea, 20 to 200 miles fishing; Lebanon, 6 miles fishing; Libya, 12 miles; Norway, 4 miles territorial sea, 12 miles fishing.

It seems that a lot of these countries have the territorial limitation one thing and the fishing another.

South Africa, 6 miles territorial sea, 12 miles fishing; Tunisia, 6 miles territorial sea, 12 miles fishing zone for a portion of the coast. I will put this in the record because there is no uniformity in the territorial sea nor the fishing claim by various countries of the world. (The letter referred to follows:)

Hon. HERBERT C. BONNER,

DEPARTMENT OF STATE, Washington, February 24, 1964.

Chairman, Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee,
House of Representatives.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: During the course of hearings on S. 1988 on February 20, you requested certain information concerning the jurisdiction claimed by other countries over territorial waters and fishing. This information is from the survey made by the United Nations Secretariat at the time of the 1960 Law of the Sea Conference and modified by any specific information received since that time (all distances given are from the shore or baselines):

1. Countries claiming a territorial sea of 3 miles with no further jurisdiction over fishing:

Australia.

Belgium.

Canada (however, Canada has announced plans to extend jurisdiction over fishing to 12 miles in May 1964).

China (Communist China claims 12 miles).

Cuba.

Malaysia.

France.

Ireland.

Japan.

Jordan.

Liberia.

Netherlands.

Poland.

United Kingdom.

2. Countries claiming a territorial sea of 3 miles with additional jurisdiction over fishing (set forth in parentheses):

Argentina (10 miles).

Brazil (12 miles).

Denmark (12 miles for Greenland and Faroe Islands).

Dominican Republic (15 miles).

Pakistan (1 marine league).

3. Other claims to extended jurisdiction:

Albania (10-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing).

Algeria (12-mile territorial sea).

Bulgaria (12-mile territorial sea).

Cambodia (5-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing).

Cameroon (6-mile territorial sea).

Ceylon (6-mile territorial sea).

Chile (50-kilometer territorial sea, 200 miles fishing).
Colombia (6-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing).
Costa Rica (200 miles fishing).

Ecuador (12-mile territorial sea, 200 miles fishing).
El Salvador (200-mile territorial sea).

Ethiopia (12-mile territorial sea).

Finland (4-mile territorial sea).

Greece (6-mile territorial sea).

Guatemala (12-mile territorial sea).

Iceland (4-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing).

India (6-mile territorial sea, 100 miles fishing).
Indonesia (12-mile territorial sea).

Iran (12-mile territorial sea).
Israel (6-mile territorial sea).

Italy (6-mile territorial sea).

Korea (20 to 200 miles fishing).

Lebanon (6 miles fishing).

Libya (12-mile territorial sea).

Malagasy Republic (12-mile territorial sea).

Mexico (9-mile territorial sea).

Moroco (12 miles fishing).

Norway (4-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing).

Panama 12-mile territorial sea).

Peru (200-mile territorial sea).

Rumania (12-mile territorial sea).

Saudi Arabia (12-mile territorial sea).

Senegal (6-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing).

South Africa (6-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing).

Spain (6-mile territorial sea).

Sudan (12-mile territorial sea).

Sweden (4-mile territorial sea).

Syria (12-mile territorial sea).

Tanganyika (12-mile territorial sea).

Thailand (6-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing).

Tunisia (6-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing, plus a much extended fishing

zone for a portion of the coast).

U.S.S.R. (12-mile territorial sea).

United Arab Republic (12-mile territorial sea).

Uruguay (6-mile territorial sea, 12 miles fishing).

Venezuela (12-mile territorial sea).

Vietnam (20 kilometer fishing).

Yugoslavia (6-mile territorial sea, 10 miles fishing).