Mr. SMITH. The property also includes dry docks, piers, other waterfront improvements, and all public works with which the bureau has to do.

Mr. FRENCH. It does not have to do with roads, highways, and things like that?

Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; all kinds of repairs. The value of streets, roads, pavements, communication systems, and distributing systems is taken in to make up that $300,000,000. It excludes land values.

MAJOR REPLACEMENTS, ALTERATIONS, AND EXTRAORDINARY REPAIRS

Mr. FRENCH. The next item is for major replacements, alterations, and extraordinary repairs to offset depreciation, $3,000,000, Could you break that item up for the committee in a rough way! Mr. ŠMITH. That can be done; yes, sir.

Mr. FRENCH. You have two items that total $6,000,000 of the $10,000,000. The first item is under the heading "Repairs to public works," $3,000,000. The second item is under "Major replacements. alterations, etc.," totaling another $3,000,000. In a rough way, how do you differentiate between the two?

Mr. SMITH. The first item, "Repairs to public works," refers particularly to what you would call routine repairs; for instance, repairs to roofs which develop leaks, replacement of glass in windows. paintings, and things of that kind.

Mr. FRENCH. To analyze that amount, then, would be to provide us with a volume indicating a multitude of details, would it? Mr. SMITH. Oh, thousands of items.

Mr. FRENCH. While the other one has to do with large matters! Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; the extension of a building, for instance, putting an additional bay on a building, or something which will probably run up in cost to three or four or five thousand dollars for one item.

Mr. FRENCH. Developing the last thought, touching major replacements, how large would the individual items for replacements be, would you say; $10,000, $50,00, or what?

Mr. SMITH. They do not usually run over $15,000 or $20,000, and there are very few of those. Occasionally we might have a job that would run higher. For instance, if it became necessary to replace entirely the roof of a building, it might run up as high as $40,000 or $50,000, but owing to the shortage of funds we have not been able to

authorize any jobs of that size, although there have been a good many requests.

I might say right in that connection, Mr. Chairman, that in the public works estimates which were submitted by the yards and stations for specific appropriations in the 1926 estimates there were 163 different items which were estimated to cost $20,000 or less; a large number of those items being jobs which could legally be done under Appropriation Maintenance if we had sufficient funds.

COMPARISON OF COST OF MATERIAL AND LABOR

Mr. FRENCH. Another question that touches the general situation: What of the cost of doing the job now in comparison with a year ago, labor and materials that you must buy being taken into consideration?

Mr. SMITH. During the current year the labor is approximately 10 per cent more than it was during 1924. The schedule which went into effect, as I recollect, the 1st of last January allowed an average increase of something like 10 per cent. The costs of material I do not think have varied much in the last year.

Mr. FRENCH. Then how do these two items break; that is, what would be the relative proportion of material and of labor?...

Mr. SMITH. That would depend entirely on the character of the job.

Mr. FRENCH. Of course; but I mean, generally speaking, would it be one-third material and two-thirds labor, or 50 per cent of each? Mr. SMITH. I should say the average runs about 60 per cent labor and 40 per cent material. I think that is about right.

Mr. FRENCH. Your work is so general that some classes of work would be almost entirely labor, as, for instance, the dredging or docking of caissons; on the other hand, there are probably some into which the costs of material would enter largely?

Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; the installation of electric cables, for instance. Cable is very expensive, and in that case 90 per cent would probably go to material and 10 per cent for labor.

Mr. FRENCH. Your bureau does not draw much in a supplemental way from appropriation purchases account?

Mr. SMITH. No, sir; not now.

- Mr. FRENCH. You never did draw much, but, on the other hand, it is practically wiped out so far as your bureau is concerned?

Mr. SMITH. Well, right after the war, of course, there was a great deal of surplus material which we secured without appropriation charge; but that surplus stock, as far as Yards and Docks is concerned, is now practically exhausted-building materials and things of that kind.

Mr. FRENCH. So we have gotten to the point where, for your bureau, we have got to think of everything you do as being done with moneys that we appropriate?

Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

Mr. OLIVER. Mr. French has asked that you supply a more detailed statement than you have submitted in reference to the major appropriation. As I understand, these estimates are based on an actual survey of your needs, are they not?

22231-241-46

Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

Mr. OLIVER. And the fact that you have not submitted a more detailed statement is due to their covering such a sundry bill of items?

Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

Mr. OLIVER. May I ask, in that connection, what amount included in your estimates could be classed under the head of contingent expenses, such as you could not now necessarily anticipate, but which. from your past experience, you feel may be reasonable necessary during the next fiscal year?

Mr. SMITH. In preparing those estimates the contingent element is not calculated. That is to say, in addition to this appropriation we have an appropriation "Contingent," which is not very large. but is intended to take care of casualties; that is storms, fires, etc. Mr. OLIVER. But you have not included any of the contingent estimates in this particular item?

Mr. SMITH. No, sir. This estimate for maintenance is based upon actual experience of routine expenditures which can be anticipated. We know, for instance, that during a year there are certain roofs that are bound to spring leaks. From long experience we can calculate pretty closely what that is going to amount to. We know that certain buildings have to be painted at certain times.

Mr. OLIVER. Well, that is supplemented, as I understand, by these surveys that you are making from time to time, and on which re ports are submitted by the Bureau.

Mr. SMITH. Oh, yes; that is where we obtain our information.
Mr. OLIVER. As to the present condition of your plant?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

Mr. FRENCH. Another general thought is this: How about expenditures on the Atlantic in contrast with the Pacific, since the major part of the fleet at this time is on the Pacific? Is the work on the Atlantic of a character that admits of postponement for s while, on account of the major fleet establishment being in the Pacific in stead of the Atlantic? That is, can you thereby pass over or postpone, more reasonably, work in Atlantic establishments?

Admiral GREGORY. When it comes to repairs and the restoration to good condition, the presence of the fleet has no bearing whatsoever upon it. For example, if we know that a roof is leaking, no matter whether it is on the east coast or the west coast, we have to s that that roof is made tight. If it is a case of extensions and alterations, we give preference, of course, to those stations which are in greatest demand by the presence of the fleet. For example, we would favor extensions on the west coast much more than we would on any station on the east coast.

Mr. FRENCH. Then, in a general way, that principle runs through the recommendations that come to the committee?

Admiral GREGORY. Yes, sir.

EXPENDITURES FOR MAINTENANCE FOR 1924

Mr. FRENCH. Then at this point would you insert the table or list indicating the allocation of the moneys that you have expended for maintenance, Bureau of Yards and Docks, for the several years that you have indicated to the committee?

Admiral GREGORY. Yes, sir.

Comparison of allotments 1916, 1921, 1923, and 1924. (Includes R. and P. for

2, 484, 360. 19

Mr. FRENCH. Among the larger items that you have indicated to the committee are, first, Boston, $70,000. In a rough way, what is covered by that item? That is the first-quarter allotment only.

Mr. SMITH. That is entirely operating and upkeep charges and repairs. There are no improvements involved in that at all. Mr. FRENCH. Will that be, then, approximately the share which throughout the other quarters of the year will go to that yard? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

Mr. FRENCH. The next large item is for Hampton Roads, $100,000 for the quarter. Does that contemplate large replacement wors or large alterations, or is that essentially an upkeep proposition?

Mr. SMITH. That also, as in the case of Boston, pertains to operating and upkeep charges. For the second quarter Hampton Roads estimated $6,700 for improvements out of a total of $117,499.

Mr. FRENCH. The next item is $100,000 for Mare Island. Mr. SMITH. At Mare Island they have included a number of major repairs amounting to $139,000 out of a total of $261,000. Mr. FRENCH. For the year?

Mr. SMITH. No, sir; for the quarter.

Mr. FRENCH. But you have cut it so as to allow them $100,000? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

Mr. FRENCH. And within the $100,000 are you including certain major items?

Mr. SMITH. No, sir; nothing; because the amount they estimate for operating and upkeep charges and repairs exceeds $100,000. It exceeds what we gave them, so that they have no margin for improvements whatever.

Admiral GREGORY. I may say that practically all of the allotments made, or at least the great percentage of the allotments made, in these quarterly allotments, is for operation and the most minor upkeep charges. There is very little for special repairs.

Mr. FRENCH. Contrasting the two that we have just referred to. Hampton Roads and Mare Island, is the establishment at Hampton Roads of a character that requires as much as that at Mare Island for those ordinary upkeep expenditures with the fleet on the Pacific! Admiral GREGORY. Yes, sir. At Hampton Roads there are a number of different activities, all of which receive the benefits of this allotment. There are, for example, the supply station, submarine base, destroyer base, air station, training station, and all of those together get the benefit of allotments that we make. We handle, for example, all the transportation, and we have to keep up all the transportation appliances. So there are a number of different stations which get the benefit of this money. At Mare Island, although that is a large yard and covers a lot of territory, the activities do not extend over as great an area as they do at Hampton Roads. Hampton Roads is very extensive.

Mr. FRENCH. How about the structures at the two places? Admiral GREGORY. The structures at Hampton Roads are generally of a more temporary nature. The majority of the structures at Hampton Roads, in number, at least, are of wooden construction. There are not very many buildings that are of what we would term permanent construction.

Mr. FRENCH. There are not very many at Mare Island that are not permanent, are there?