FRIDAY, DECEMBER 5, 1924. BUREAU OF YARDS AND DOCKS STATEMENTS OF REAR ADMIRAL L. E. GREGORY, CHIEF; MR. WILLIAM M. SMITH, HEAD OF MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION DIVISION; AND MR. H. D. ROUZER, SENIOR ENGINEER GENERAL STATEMENT Mr. FRENCH. This morning we take up the Bureau of Yards and Docks, and we have with us Admiral Gregory and his assistants who will present to the committee the estimates touching that Bureau. Admiral, probably before going into the details of the estimates you would prefer to make a general statement to the committee. Admiral GREGORY. There has been prepared a booklet descriptive of the estimates of the Bureau of Yards and Docks, which has been furnished to the several members of the committee and which gives in very complete detail the features which should be considered in the handling of the estimates. Mr. FRENCH. Probably that first statement you could present to the committee right now, and then we will reach the others in better shape, probably, as we approach the several items. Admiral GREGORY. Yes, sir; that is my purpose. In regard to the appropriation for maintenance, which is the one provided for the operation, upkeep, and repairs of those naval stations to which the Bureau of Yards and Docks makes its allotments, we have been following the course approved last year of getting reports from the various stations much more accurately compiled than heretofore. We have established in the bureau a section for the purpose of studying the figures which come from the different yards, and, in that way, analyzing the cost of nearly all of our items at the various yards. We have compared those very carefully. When we find, for example, that at a certain yard to produce certain results costs a great deal more or somewhat more than the general average of yards, we take the matter up with that naval station to see why their costs are so great. That has resulted in effecting economies at great many many yards and the elimination of some work which we can not afford to do. It has resulted in better standards and methods in the making of charges and accounts, and we are in a position, therefore, to keep much closer control of yard affairs. The commandants and other officers have been impressed more deeply than ever before with the necessity for eliminating all work that is not absolutely essential, and at the present time we feel that the stations are being hard pressed to keep within the funds allotted for them, not only under our regular allotments, but, also, under the special allotments made for special work. a The estimate of the Budget for this year carries an excess over the current appropriation of $532,500; but that by no means equals the amount of work which we are having to postpone from one year to another-work which is presented to the bureau as absoJutely essential to the proper upkeep of those naval stations. I have during the last 12 months visited practically all of the naval stations in the United States, within the continental limits, and I have been impressed with the fact that at every station we are leaving undone many repairs which should be done, and should be done at once, in order to prevent further deterioration and decay. I feel that the Budget this year has cut the estimate to an extent which will make it necessary for us to continue to postpone needed things, and that it does not make it possible for us to bring the yards up to the condition that they should be in to meet the needs of the fleet. Mr. FRENCH. In a general way, what are some of the outstanding matters to which you refer there? Admiral GREGORY. There are a great many things which will come up, the details of which will appear in the details we will submit a little bit later, but in general they are re items for repairing roofs, painting buildings, repairs of skylights, glass, repairs to caissons at drydocks, repairs to piers, and things of that kind, which have grown to such an extent that it is not possible to do all of them from the regular allotments, or out of the special allotments that we make. I am going to ask Mr. Smith to give the details of them, because he has been working on the details of the records for a number of months. I simply wanted to make a general statement to begin with, and to tell you that while we are impressing upon all of the yards the necessity for keeping their expenses down, we are not able to keep those stations in the condition in which they should be kept in order to properly fulfill their mission for the upkeep of the fleet. With what I have said, I will let the general statement rest, and will ask Mr. Smith to go into the details, of which he has a great volume here. REDUCTION OF ESTIMATE BY BUDGET BUREAL Mr. FRENCH. Mr. Smith, will you make a general statement at this time? Mr. SMITH. I would like to call attention to page 8 of the statement we have submitted. Near the bottom of that page you will find an analysis of the expenditures under the appropriation for maintenance, which will give general idea of the main purposes for which the appropriation is used. Then I would like also to call your atten tion to the method which we follow in securing these estimates from the various navy yards and stations quarterly. a Mr. FRENCH. Is that analysis made upon the basis of what is in the bill this year or upon the basis of the estimates from the Budget Bureau? Mr. SMITH. No, sir; it is upon the basis of what the bureau considers should be expended on these various items, amounting to $10,000,000. Mr. FRENCH. That is, to bring them up to the state that you would like to have them in? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. However, the bureau is not now advocating anything beyond the Budget figures. Mr. FRENCH. Suppose at this point you insert in the record the table appearing on pages 8 and 9 containing the items amounting to $10,000,000. Mr. SMITH. We will do so. Repairs to public works, 1 per cent on $300,000,000 value.... $3,000,000 depreciation, 1 per cent on $300,000,000 value... 3,000,000 Clerical, technical, and classified forces limited by law to--------- 950,000 175,000 Care grounds, street cleaning, refuse and garbage removal, snow ⚫ removal, lawns, parks, and grounds around quarters, etc__-------Lighting grounds, water, heating military buildings, etc..... 680,000 320,000 Watchmen, police, janitors, and cleaning attendants_ 190,000 Fire protection forces and apparatus__ 190,000 Auto trucks, vehicles, crane operation and inspection, livestock, stable attendants, hostlers, forage, etc____ 210,000 Furniture: Office, personnel buildings, and quarters____ 50,000 Maintenance of tracks, trackmen, crossing and switch attendants, etc 85,000 Distributing systems, communication systems, elevator and bridge attendants, supervisory and routine employees, etc--- 220,000 Construction equipment, tools, appliances, operation weight-handling Supplies, office and miscellaneous. Leave and holiday, workmen, not charged to indeterminate__. Indeterminate charges at industrial yards__. Power, refrigerating and boiler attendance and inspection_. Mr. FRENCH. As against that amount of $10,000,000, you have brought in estimates amounting to what figure? Mr. SMITH. $6,750,000. Mr. FRENCH. Will you indicate to the committee the plan by which you arrived at that figure last mentioned, or $6,750,000? I mean by that, the plan you followed in assorting the items out from the total that would aggregate $10,000,000. Mr. SMITH. The method followed in arriving at that figure was simply to make a flat reduction to the amount that could be allowed. It was necessary, of course, in making up the final budget, that certain reductions be made. The amount was reached without consideration of details to any great extent, but we simply cut the items down to $6,750,000. In other words, it was just an arbitrary cut, without much reference to the details. The average of the present cut would apply to all the items more or less uniformly. Mr. FRENCH. Have you made your allocation definitely at this time, or have you made it in a general way, with the purpose of making it more definite later on? Mr. SMITH. The allocations have not yet been made, except up to the present time. Mr. FRENCH. That is, for 1925? Mr. SMITH. For the first half of 1925; and for 1926 the allocations would follow very closely the allocations for 1925-that is to say, if we should get an increase of $500,000 under this appropriation, the various navy yards and stations, according to their needs, would benefit correspondingly. That amount would be distributed among the various navy yards and stations according to their most urgent needs at the time the allocations were decided upon. It is difficult to decide those things very much in advance because the conditions are constantly changing. Mr. FRENCH. I realize that you can not in advance tell what roofs may need repairs most urgently a year from now. METHOD OF SECURING AND ALLOCATING ESTIMATES Mr. SMITH. I will call attention to the form used for securing these estimates. I just want to show the detailed form in which we get them. We have corresponding forms with exactly the same headings, on which we get reports as to expenditures, so that we can compare the estimates of the various navy yards and stations, as submitted, with the actual expenditures after the fact. Mr. FRENCH. What are the facts that the forms that you use indicate to your office from the several yards? Mr. SMITH. They indicate the amount of money expected to be expended, or the amount desired, for operation and upkeep charges. for repairs, and for improvements, under approximately 55 different items, which I will ask you to look at. That will give you an idea of the detail to which we go. Mr. FRENCH. To begin with, you have a sort of replacement value on all of these properties. Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. Mr. FRENCH. The total replacement would probably be what. $300,000,000? Mr. SMITH. About $300,000,000 is the value of the property with which Yards and Docks has to do. Mr. FRENCH. Then you have the property value as divided among the different establishments, so that you know what is the replace ment value of the property at each of the establishments? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. Mr. FRENCH. You also know the different kinds of buildings and property that you have at the yards and stations, and you are able to compare the upkeep and replacement figures at one yard with the upkeep and replacement figures on buildings and equipment at another yard? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. Mr. FRENCH. The buildings and equipment are much the same at the different yards? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir, at places of the same class. Mr. FRENCH. And in that way you can work out the percentage! Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. Mr. FRENCH. I also notice that in this form you have required an analysis with regard to a multitude of items, such as grounds. streets, storehouses, general administration buildings, sewer distributing systems, fire protection, and various others. Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. Mr. FRENCH. Then, upon receiving reports from the several stations, what plan do you follow touching the allocations? Mr. SMITH. The reports from the various stations are all collected together. For instance, this book contains all of them for the second quarter, or the current quarter, of this fiscal year. They are all arranged in alphabetical order, studied by the engineers of the bureau and by myself, and a conclusion is reached as to the amount of money each place shoud be allowed. Mr. FRENCH. In addition, do you have some one person, or a few persons, making personal investigations so that you can better appraise the estimates of the several officers in charge of the different stations? Mr. SMITH. Do you mean personal investigations at the sites? Mr. SMITH. No one from the bureau does that regularly. The public works officer at the yard is supposed to make up the figures quarterly. Mr. FRENCH. Then, how do you check up so as to attain a common, fair appraisement of the several estimates that come in, having in mind that one officer in charge of one plant might estimate generously while another one might estimate more stringently, so that if the estimates alone of the respective officers were to be followed a plant that might not be as deserving as another might have on paper an apparent request for greater sums? Admiral GREGORY. In regard to that, I might say, in the first place, that through very carefully prepared instructions that have been given to each of those stations by the bureau, a great deal is accomplished in the way of placing these estimates on a common standard; but, to go further, it so happens that there are at the bureau at all times, at least one officer, and sometimes several officers, who are personally familiar with almost every station concerning which we have to pass upon estimates. They are familiar with them by reason of the fact that they have had duty at those stations. Then, as a final check, the chief of the bureau and the assistant chief of the bureau have at times, during the year, visited practically all of the stations within the continental limits of the United States, and have familiarized themselves in person with the needs of those stations, and impressed upon those stations the need for a common standard of upkeep. myself, it is my plan, in inspecting each station, to spend in some places as much as a week at a time in order to become perfectly familiar with the details, and to go with the commandant and heads of departments and inspect every portion of the station. In that way the bureau does keep very well informed as to the needs of the different places, so that the amount allotted for the work to be done is equalized, or the allotments are made upon as nearly an equal basis as it is possible to make them... As Mr. SMITH. I was going to say with reference to the matter presented by the officers who prepare the reports that, of course, the chief of the bureau and others in the bureau are very familiar with the personalities, you might say, of the different officers. They know those who are inclined to be extravagant, and those who are inclined to be otherwise, and, of course, that is taken into consideration in considering the estimates as submitted by each particular officer. Mr. FRENCH. So that you can say, as to the estimates coming before the committee, that there has been a process of adjustment followed by which there is a common appraisement applied to all, an appraisement that reduces them to one general standard touching improvement, touching upkeep, replacements, etc.? Admiral GREGORY. Yes, sir; touching all of the various things for which we make allotments. Mr. FRENCH. Taking the first general estimate of $10,000,000 as the amount which would be necessary to bring the different establishments to the state in which you would like to have them, you have indicated in a rough way $3,000,000 for repairs. That is the repair item on an investment of $300,000,000 or 1 per cent. Those are buildings, are they not? |