Captain HOUGH. Yes; Capt. C. L. Hussey. He is available in my office now. A returning naval attaché comes to the Office of Naval - Intelligence for just such purposes as this to give the latest information and he will probably be a most excellent witness for this committee, if I might suggest his name to you.

I might also say that the data submitted has all been compared with Captain Hussey, who has just come back from England. Commander Stapler has prepared all this information and he has taken the opportunity to check it up with Captain Hussey. So as far as Great Britain is considered, this represents the best and the most recent information that it is possible for us to get for you.

NAVAL AVIATION SERVICE OF GREAT BRITAIN, FRANCE, AND ITALY

- Mr. FRENCH. You referred a minute ago to the aircraft program; first as to the desire of the Admiralty to break away from the present combined system. Do you know to what extent that idea has gained? In other words, is it probable that that will be accomplished?

Captain HOUGH. I feel absolutely sure that it will be, sir. The attitude of the Admiralty and the naval officers serving on board ship is that a service which is merely detailed to them for the occasion, trained by somebody else, is not imbued with the same spirit and will not work as well as a force which is a part of the navy itself. In other words, it is a question of a difference in discipline and of looking to some other head than your own; and the force as they have had it under recent rules and laws has not worked out satisfactorily so far as the Admiralty is concerned, and they are body and soul opposed to it.

Mr. FRENCH. What is the policy of France in that regard? Is it a combined service?

Captain HOUGH. No, sir. Commander Stapler can answer that better than I can.

Commander STAPLER. They have a separate naval aviation service. Mr. FRENCH. How about Italy?

Commander STAPLER. Italy is taking up a combined service. Mr. FRENCH. How about Japan?

Commander STAPLER. Japan has a separate naval aviation service. Great Britain and Italy are the two countries that have a combined service.

Mr. FRENCH. Is there any tendency in France and Japan to combine?

Commander STAPLER. We have not seen any signs of it.
Mr. FRENCH. Is there any tendency in Italy to separate?

Commander STAPLER. Not as yet, sir.

Mr. FRENCH. Only in Great Britain?

Commander STAPLER. Only in Great Britain.

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Captain HOUGH. But that is really a very strong position that the British have taken. Recently they have issued new regulations, dated, I think, last April, under which they now recruit great deal of their personnel from the navy. They must be volunteers first. They go into the air service for a certain number of years; I think it is four; then they go back to the navy, and 50 per cent of them return to aviation and 50 per cent stay in the navy, or something like that. But the idea is that, as the Admiralty looks at it, they want their naval air service trained by their own people and under the naval discipline, so that aviators in the navy have the navy at heart entirely; and they also say that people trained by the other service do not bring back all the information that can be obtained. For example, an illustration came to me the other day. During our recent maneuvers off the Caribbean an Army officer was up in an observation plane. He came back and reported "large ships and "small ships," but he could not tell the difference between them. It was so many large ships and so many small ships, and that was all. It did not mean anything, really, to the commander in chief who got this report.

Mr. FRENCH. Could he tell whether they were ships of the Navy or cargoes of lumber?

Captain HOUGH. My history does not go quite that far, sir. But the point was that it needs an officer who is trained in the naval work to bring back all the information that can be obtained by this observation. In other words, it is just like looking into a shop window. If you are an expert in jewelry and you look at the window of a jewelry store, you would recognize a large number of items. I might be an expert in some other line of business and I would only recognize possibly half the number of items that you would recognize. In other words, the man has got to be trained in the line in which he works.

Commander STAPLER. In regard to Italy, Mr. Chairman, I might add that Italy is backward in aviation and has been greatly handicapped by lack of funds. She has been in a bad financial condition. and her aviation development, both military and commercial, has been lagging behind those of other European countries.

JAPANESE NAVAL POLICY AND FUTURE CONSTRUCTION

Captain HOUGH. Japan is proceeding with vigor to build up her fleet in types not limited by the treaties of Washington in accordance with her standing plans. Recent circumstances have caused some delay in her building program for fleet auxiliaries. such as tenders, etc. Japan is active in improving the naval air service.

Japan is making every effort to provide adequate fuel oil reserves and to develop new sources of supply. There has been general comment on the increasing amount of war material and chemical shipments that have been going forward from Europe, especially Germany, to Japan.

It is considered that the underlying element in Japan's naval policy is her determination to dominate the East. As Table C shows, Japan has a very large tonnage of light cruisers, first line, and fleet submarines, first line, under construction. The types now building are characterized by size, speed, and radius of action A study of recent types reveals that wherever possible additional speed and weight of broadside fire is aimed at over corresponding types abroad, even though in gaining these elements a certain sacrifice may have to be made in weights or protection.

In regard to future programs of construction, it is impossibl to give detailed information. Provision for the Navy is made in such a manner as to make it extremely difficult to determine just what is in progress. It is understood that the following amounts are contemplated for new noncapital-ship construction in the years as set

forth:

1924-25

925-26

926-27.

927-28-.

928-29

Mr. FRENCH. A yen is about 50 cents?

Yen

88,000,000

88,000,000

80,000,000

49,000,000

96,000.000

Captain HOUGH. A yen is approximately 50 cents, but in regards o wages in Japan, including both civilian employees and officers and nlisted men, it may be stated that the expenditure of a yen produces bout the equivalent of that of a dollar in the United States. In ther words, in the matter of pay in the navy Japan has an advanage, due to the lower standard of living.

The total naval expenditures for the fiscal years 1924-25 amount 0 238,000,000 yen.

According to recent Japanese press, the navy department has tanded its budget for 1925-26 to the finance department. It calls or an expenditure of 260,500,000 yen, which is an increase of 4,000,000 yen over the revised present year's budget.

Mr. FRENCH. Do you know, Captain, how they propose to expend hat additional 24,000,000 yen? Is it for new construction work? Captain HOUGH. That is the difficult thing about these estimates, ir. We know that they have certain ships under way, and we know hat their appropriation is so much, but we have nothing by which ve can tell just how much is going for this purpose or that.

Mr. TABER. Captain, there is no data here whatever with reference aircraft. Have you that data?

Captain HOUGH. We can prepare some data for you on aircraft. You would want that prepared on the same general lines as this; he programs of the various countries?

Mr. TABER. Yes.

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Captain HOUGH. And, in so far as we can give them to you, the stimates for budgets, and so on?

Mr. TABER. Yes.

Captain HOUGH. We can get something of that kind for you. I now we have information on that subject.

Commander STAPLER. We have letters of inquiry out now which re expect to be answered shortly.

Captain HOUGH. We received only a few days ago a reply from France covering information that we had requested on that very ubject. We felt that it might be asked for, and we took steps to sk these naval attachés to send in information on that subject. It is ot yet all at hand, but as it comes in we can prepare it in a form milar to this for the use of the committee, if that will be satisfacDry to you. As I say, we have it from France, but it has not come rom the outlying places.

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FRENCH NAVAL POLICY AND FUTURE CONSTRUCTION

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Captain HOUGH. The next country to be taken up is France. French naval policy appears to be based on the determination to maintain such forces as will counter Italy in the Mediterranean, and at the same time will be capable of maintaining open lines of communication to Africa for the purpose of the transfer of troops. To this end, French programs of development include able number of light cruisers, first line, destroyer leaders, destroyers, first line, and submarines. Light, fast forces with submarines of increased radius of action and power, backed by battleships, combined with the command of the air, are the elements on which France is relying to carry out her objectives in the Mediterranean, which again has become the focus of political activities in Europe. France's future building program contemplates the laying down of the following units in the years as stated:

French ships to be laid down from July, 1925 to July, 1928

The total money provision for the French Navy from January 1, 1924, to January 1, 1925, is 1,534,361,654 francs.

Mr. TABER. What is a franc to-day?

Captain HOUGH. A franc is approximately 5 cents, sir. Twenty francs to the dollar is a fair approximation for quick transfer from one currency to the other.

Mr. FRENCH 'RENCH. Does it, in that country, though, on account of lower wages and prices for commodities, purchase more for the navy than 5 per cent on the dollar?

Captain HOUGH. In the matter of wages; yes. In the matter of commodities. I do not believe there is a very great difference.

Mr. FRENCH. Then we could regard that as approximately what? Captain HOUGH. I think if you divide that by 20 you will get your corresponding value in approximate dollars. Of course, the exchange is changing from time to time.

Mr. FRENCH. Yes.

Mr. TABER. It would be approximately $75,000,000?

Captain HOUGH. I should call that $75,000,000, sir.

In connection with an estimate of the situation in the matter of foreign naval policies, attention is called to the fact that, to date, France has not confirmed by legislative action certain of the Washington treaties, and that therefore these treaties are not as yet binding on any of the nations concerned.

The treaties in question are:

No. 2. The treaty in relation to the use of submarines and noxious gases in warfare.

No. 6. A treaty between all nine powers relating to principles and policies to be followed in matters concerning China.

That covers the information I have for you as to France.

ITALIAN NAVAL POLICY AND FUTURE CONSTRUCTION

Italian naval policy is apparently dictated by the necessity of countering France in the Mediterranean and the need of upholding Italian colonial interests in Africa. The conclusion of the treaty with Yugoslavia has changed the political strategy of Italy which was formerly based on the Adriatic. The western Mediterranean has now become the focus of defensive interest. A strong naval base will be established at Cagliari in southern Sardinia with a supporting base in southern Sicily near the trade routes by which Italy is provisioned.

The sum of 20,000,000 lire has been allocated to initiate the construction at Cagliari. The defenses of western Italy, Sardinia and Sicily are to be strengthened. In February, 1924, Signor Mussolini made the following statement before the Board of Admirals:

From the land point of view Italy is adequately protected, as she possesses the impregnable Nevosd and Brenner ridges. From the sea point of view the situation is quite different. Hence I am resolved to increase slowly but steadily the efficiency of the navy. I pledge myself before you to do my utmost so that the navy will get what it needs to be ready for any emergency. The following is considered to be the probable future construction program:

Italian Ships to be laid down from July, 1925 to July, 1928

The Italians have developed a new torpedo of about 23" diameter and increased range and speed. As the result of their war experience in the Adriatic, they continue to maintain a large number of high-speed motor boats for torpedo attack purposes. They are also experimenting in design of this general type of vessel.

The Italian naval budget for 1924-25, as of July 1, 1924, amounts to 924,046,000 lire.

FLEET MANEUVERS OF FLEETS OF GREAT BRITAIN AND JAPAN, 1924

Mr. FRENCH. Captain Hough, the committee has considered heretofore the possible maneuvers of the fleet of the United States during the current fiscal year and during the fiscal year 1926. I wonder if you could furnish the committee a short statement of the plan of fleet maneuvers carried on last by both the Governments of Great Britain and Japan. Could you do that?