The CHAIRMAN. Well, I appreciate your problems that you have, we have got to resolve them some way. I think this bill will go a long way towards the resolution of these problems.

Mr. GARDNER. Very much so, thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Let's go to Mr. Smith. I want to thank you for coming and telling us about the unfair treatment you believe you've received. And I do believe that it is a real problem in the bureaucracy in Washington, and that they back there have completely lost touch with the people and these type of problems. And, you know, instead of being servants of the people, they seem to be the lord and masters.

Well, I just want to make clear that everybody is clear about the injustice that happened to you. You have property which you bought 20 years ago, right?

Mr. SMITH. Yes, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. Which the Corps said-that is the Corps of Engineers said was not a wetland in 1982?

Mr. SMITH. That's correct.

The CHAIRMAN. OK; so you start off, the property you bought in good faith to develop yourself and it was declared not a wetland by the Corps of Engineers itself?

Mr. SMITH. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. OK; then all of a sudden in 1993 they say it is a wetland and they turn around and blame everything on you.

Mr. SMITH. Yes, the representative explained it. Their quote was-is, "no wetland maps," and that situations change.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, given the closed door manner in which the Government has dealt with you, is there any way that you could have protected yourself or even have prepared for this problem?

Mr. SMITH. I have no idea how. I'm simply perplexed. I don't understand the whole process.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I've asked the others and I'd like to ask you as well: Do you think this bill would be of help to you?

Mr. SMITH. Absolutely. My property would be is of such low quality wetland, even if they choose to call it such, that the 11⁄2 acres would be of no value to them.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I think what is important here is that these are three isolated instances in Utah. But there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of these instances, and thousands of potential problems like this with the accompanying fines, or low values, or poor exchanges, or whatever it is, for lands that really have been thought to be worth a lot of money, worth a lot to the families, worth a lot for retirement. People have worked and saved all their lives and built up these assets, then they turn around and find that they are almost valueless because of a government decision, in many cases an unjust and seemingly unwise decision. And you are just three illustrations of how bad it really is.

I just want to thank all three of you for being here, because it really bothers me a great deal. Someone who supports the protection of endangered species, who wants, you know, wants to protect our wilderness areas, who wants to do what is right environmentally. Frankly I do not go along with this type of stuff. I think it's wrong. I think it is wrong for you, it is wrong for our country, it is wrong for our State, it is wrong for our communities.

And I just want to thank each of you for coming because through your testimony here today hopefully we can-we can help others to see how important this type of legislation really is, to help correct these injustices and to prevent them from happening in the future. So thanks for being here, we appreciate it.

The CHAIRMAN. We are now going to turn to our second panel, which is our final panel for today. And on this panel will be Mr. Ken Ashby, Who is president of the Utah Farm Bureau, a very important person to all of us; Mr. Ronald W. Thompson, District Manager of the Washington County Water Conservancy District; and Mr. Richard G. Wilkins, Professor at the Brigham Young University School of Law.

So we will begin with you, Mr. Ashby. You are currently serving your 8th year as president of Utah Farm Bureau Federation. Ĭ have had a lot to do with you, I have a grade deal of respect for you. I found you to always be honest and to act in the best interest of the farmers of Utah and the State as a whole. You are also chairman of the Utah Department of Agriculture Advisory Board. You served on the American Farm Bureau board of directors, that is the National American Farm Bureau, its select committee on farm credit and is a member of the International Trade Issues Committee.

President Ashby is the owner of Ashby's Valley View Farms, a diversified irrigated farm in Delta. So we welcome you and we will take your testimony at this time.

PANEL CONSISTING OF KEN ASHBY, PRESIDENT, UTAH FARM BUREAU; RONALD W. THOMPSON, DISTRICT MANAGER, WASHINGTON COUNTY WATER CONSERVANCE DISTRICT; AND RICHARD G. WILKINS, PROFESSOR, BYU LAW SCHOOL

STATEMENT OF KEN ASHBY

Mr. ASHBY. Thank you, Senator, I appreciate the opportunity to be here with you. We are here to endorse the Omnibus Property Rights Act of 1995. The system for protecting the right to own and use private property has broken down over the last 20 years. We do not seek new rights. We want to reassert the rights that our Forefathers recognized over 200 years ago.

The "property rights movement" of the 1990's is simply a reaffirmation of what was started 200 years ago. The current regulatory climate at all government levels, the right to own and use private property has become an afterthought. Look before you leap and takings compensation legislation are simply attempts to move the rights of property owners up the policy ladder away from this afterthought status.

S.605 is an important step in rebalancing of power between property owners and government. You've listened to some examples of private property owners, let me give you just two other quick examples.

A northern Utah land owner has been locked in a 5-year struggle with the Army Corps of Engineers over the construction of the building on land designated as wetland, despite the fact that a city street goes right past the privately owned property. The Corps' de

cision has reduced the value of the farm by 65 percent with absolutely no compensation. We think that this is wrong.

Another Utah landowner recently tried to grade and fill a 1⁄2 acre of low line land immediately adjacent to his new home on 12 acres private lot. Because he was denied permission to do that, he tried to sell the property. The home and the land, the value dropped $30,000 below an earlier appraisal due to this restriction.

Senate bill 605 requires the Federal Government to do three simple things. First, consider the impact on private property when government actions are planned. That is the concept of look before you leap. We are mystified by the negative reactions to such a simple idea.

Second, the legislation requires that when actions are taken and owners of private property believe that they have lost constitutionally protected rights, a process be in place to provide for administrative appeal of decisions. Few property owners have the money or the time to struggle with the bureaucracy and the courts. There has to be a way to sort out the facts and arrive at decisions.

Third, when property has been taken in violation of the Constitution, there has to be compensation. The fifth amendment recognizes that there would be times when the rights of property owners would have to give way to the wider needs of government policy. It provides for just compensation as a solution.

We must remember that private that property taken to provide endangered species protection or other environmental desires for society has the same impact for the property owner as property takings provide say, for instance, a public road. If public policy requires something for the good of all, a few individual property owners should not be required to soldier the-shoulder the entire cost, notwithstanding the recent Supreme Court decision. That decision makes this legislation more important than ever.

The right to own and use private property as a way to order society to achieve economic abundance and social harmony is the antithesis of current public policy. It starts with individuals and their relationships to each other. What they do with their property is constrained by their responsibility to not harm the property and physical bodies of other people. Governments, as the courts and police, are the enforcers of the rights that the people naturally have as human beings.

Last, Mr. Chairman, we want to say the farmers and ranchers care deeply about their land and the environment. It is a tragedy that the current regulatory process in this Nation has come to the point that this legislation is necessary. Enactment of Senate Bill 605 is one of several steps needed to turn the tide of regulatory overkill.

Unidentified SPEAKER. Hear, hear.

Mr. ASHBY. The Omnibus Property Rights Act will provide the underpinning needed to restructure environmental protection.

Farmers and ranchers can and will provide the widest spectrum of environmental protection if their right of property is secure and they are freed from the disincentives under which they currently operate. Senate bill 605 is not about doing away with environmental protections. It is about protection of constitutional rights.

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And with the passage of this bill, we in agriculture will do all we can to help you fashion a new environmentalism, one that taps into the ethic of the farmer and rancher, safe in our property and doing what we do best, caring for land, our crops, our herds, our children, our communities and our country.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. That's a very good statement and I appreciate it.

We will turn next to Ronald W. Thompson who is District Manager for the Washington County Water Conservancy District, the Regional Water Supply Agency responsible to develop water sources and resources for Washington County. He also practices law with the firm of Thompson & Hjelle and owns and operates a small livestock and farming operation.

Mr. Thompson is very active in various water resources organizations holding many leadership positions. He is also a recognized legal authority and lecturer on the Endangered Species Act and water law. We are really happy to have you here, Ron, and we look forward to taking your testimony at this time.

STATEMENT OF RONALD W. THOMPSON

Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you, Senator, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before the committee and I want to speak in favor of Senate bill 605.

Our Government was formed and founded on the principles of consent of the Government as well as the right to own and secure property without the fear of intrusion. Under the current practice of Federal agencies of taking without compensation, these fundamental rights are slowly eroding away. In a recent poll, two out of three Americans stated they had an eminent fear that the Federal Government would somehow take over one or more aspects of their lives. Loss of their private property is one of these fears. This clearly shows that the Federal Government is losing the consent of the governed.

I support the bill as a bill that has long been necessary and will serve to rectify these problems as well as greatly improve the relations of the Federal Government with private citizens and State and local governments. This bill restores the balance that is needed between the rights of individual citizens and the role of government in their lives.

The bill successfully protects property rights not only because it preserves principle, but also because it promotes responsible practice by Federal agencies. There are several ways the bill does this. First of all, the definition of property includes "easements" and "leaseholds," "the right to use water or the right to receive water” and "any interest defined as property under State law." It is important these rights as well as the actual land be protected equally since their use is equally necessary for the livelihood of the property owner. Some good examples of rights such as these that have not been protected in the past are the RS 2477 rights-of-way, Federal land leases, utility easements, and water rights.

Many problems exist in Utah with Federal agencies not recognizing RS 2477 rights-of-way. A prime example is the Cougar Pass Road in Washington County. This new road is important to the

Water District because it provides access to the Beaver Dam area, and its important ongoing studies monitoring water quality and quantity along with work we're doing with the USGS in stream gauge operation. Several years ago, the road was badly in need of repair. The county_attempted to do some maintenance, but was prohibited by the BLM. An attempt was made to obtain authorization from the area office, but the local manager simply wrote a letter citing FLPMA saying the authorization would have to be obtained from the Washington DC office; an EA would have to be completed, among other things, because the road bordered a wilderness study area, any maintenance might be too disturbing, even though the road itself was not in the wilderness study area.

Another recent problem we have had relates to water right protection and easement rights illustrated-which also illustrates the importance of the bill. The Quail Creek Project was built by the Water District in 1983. It consists of a diversion damn, 4.7 miles of 66 inch pipeline, 1.2 miles of 54 inch pipeline, 3.1 miles of 48 inch pipeline, two hydropower plants, and à 40,000 acres off stream reservoir.

The portion of the pipeline from the reservoir and part of the reservoir itself are located upon BLM lands, the use of which were authorized by BLM right-of-way. Prior to issuing the right-of-way the BLM entered into a section 7 consultation with Fish and Wildlife Service. The result of this consultation was a nonjeopardy opinion. This opinion was based upon a water simulation model submitted to the district by the District to the BLM and Fish and Wildlife. The model simulate exactly how the reservoir and pipeline would be operated and how they would affect the flows in various segments of the river. The District has consistently operated the reservoir in accordance with these simulations submitted to the BLM and the Fish and Wildlife Service.

Nevertheless, in response to a perceived, but unverified, longterm decline in the populations of the proposed listed Spinedace minnow and the Virgin River Chub, both of which have been listed or proposed to be listed after the building of the Quail Creek Reservoir, the Fish and Wildlife has asked reconsultation on the project. They are now stating that they need a release to bypass our diversion damn 86 CFS.

If such conditions were to be imposed upon the project, it would destroy the entire basis upon which it was constructed. The release of 86 CFS would prohibit the district from meeting the long established (prior to 1900) water rights or the commitments from water delivery to St. George city and other municipalities. It would also prohibit the efficient operation of hydroplants along with destroying the economic justifications of this project, and ultimately result in default of obligation bonds incurred by local people to build this project.

The second important feature of the bill is that it gives more leverage to States in terms of the way they treat private property owners. It requires the Federal Government not only compensate owners for its action, but also for the deprivation of property rights that result from State agencies' enforcement of Federally mandated programs. States are also guaranteed by the bill it will not "inter