number we simply cannot do justice to the charge the Congress and the President have given us. BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH

Name: Frederick H. Burkhardt.

Position: Chairman, National Commission on Libraries and Information Science. Birthplace and date: New York, N.Y., September 13, 1912.

Education: Columbia University, 1933, B.A. Oriel College, Oxford University, 1935, B. Litt.; Columbia University, 1940, Ph. D.; University of Michigan, 1968, LL.D.

Experience

1971-present: Chairman, National Commission on Libraries and Information Science.

1957-74: President, American Council of Learned Societies.

1967: Vice chairman, National Advisory Commission on Libraries. 1947-57: President, Bennington College, Bennington, Vt.

1946-47: Associate professor of philosophy, University of Wisconsin. 1945-46: Department of State.

1943-45: Office of Strategic Services.

1937-43: Assistant professor of philosophy, University of Wisconsin.

Association memberships: Phi Beta Kappa, American Philosophical Association, American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and American Antiquarian Society.

GENERAL STATEMENT

Dr. BURKHARDT. May I introduce Mr. Alphonse Trezza, Mr. Douglas Price, and Mrs. Mary Alice Hedge Reszetar. These three people represent the entire professional staff of the National Commission on Libraries and Information Science. They do a wonderful job, but they cannot possibly do all of the job which has to be done and that is one of the points I want to make very strongly in this hearing. What we are asking for is $93,000 more than we had last fiscal year and we want to use most of that in order to hire three research assistants and a secretary. In percentage terms it is large but not when you think of our mission, and the number of people needed to do the kind of job the Commission has been trying to do. We simply cannot do it all with the present number of staff at our disposal.

Another reason for the three new positions is that we want to do more of our own research in-house, under our own control. Up to now, we have let out contracts. Contracts are very difficult. Most of them do not pay off.

The kind of work we want to get done is so related to the objectives of the Commission that the people working on them under the direction of Mr. Trezza and Mr. Price would get far more done, and more efficiently, if they were with us. We have just finished a national program statement, which we have tried out with a large number of professional societies, publishers, and librarians. We think we have a document which, for the first time, sets forth the general rationale. of the kind of library and information services the people of this country ought to have. It is an idealistic document. It shoots for the Moon in some ways, but at least it is there as something to shoot at. It may take us 20 years to get it done, but the people who are the users of this country have told us what their needs are, and we now have a program document which gives us some policy guidance and directions. We need the additional positions that we requested from you

in order to work out the details of this document in a professional way, so we can get it into cost-effective and realistic terms.

That in substance, is what we are asking for. The money we need is basically to carry out the national program document and to work out the very knotty problems we have to deal with in implementing it. Some people think we want to create a new Federal agency. That is not our intention. What we are going to have are some new functions in the existing Federal Government agencies, which have to be worked out very carefully. It will save the Government and the country a great deal of money when we do that. We will also develop standards so that the information networks now growing up can interface and communicate with one another. Otherwise, we will have a chaotic situation in less than 10 years. So it is an urgent problem and one a lot of other countries are doing something about on a much larger scale than we are.

Our Commission and staff are very dedicated people who have put in a lot of time, and we are ready to go when we get this additional help. We have reduced the amount of money we want for outside contracts. We have only asked for $17,000 because the new staff will be doing a good deal of the research we would normally have contracted for.

I think this is a modest and essential budget and it is necessary for us to accomplish our job.

In case we have questions about the White House Conference, I have also asked Mr. Jerry Manolatos to come here. The White House Conference on Library and Information Services will have its own money and staff. But even so, we are going to have to do some planning, and we are already doing some thinking as to how it should be organized. A lot of this will have to be done in-house until we get the White House Conference staff organized. So we have another big job cut out for us and we need your help.

ALTERNATIVES FOR FINANCING PUBLIC LIBRARIES

Mr. PATTEN. What alternatives for the financing of public libraries are you currently examining?

Dr. BURKHARDT. We recently had a study made for us on where the money comes from now. Although there is quite a fantastic array of sources, the basic one at present is the property tax. To make support more equitable the major alternative would be to put public library support on a basis which the State of Washington is now considering, that is, take it out of the general local tax base and fund it at the State level.

Mr. Trezza can probably add to that.

Mr. TREZZA. The difficulty with public library funding is that we do not feel it is possible to support libraries with just local funds. There is need for shared funding at the local, State, and Federal level.

Suggested percentages which might come from the State and Federal Government are 50 percent and 20 percent respectively. The local share would be 30 percent. This would represent a partnership of local, State, and Federal Government funding. If local public libraries are to be part of a national network they must have a basic level of funding. It must be adequate to assure participation in a State network.

They need State and Federal funds so they can participate in a National network. They need these funds to not only help them meet basic local needs and national standards but to develop new services to meet the growing and complex needs of their constituencies. Their clientele includes, but is not limited to, minorities, the elderly, young people,

et cetera.

General revenue sharing has not worked for libraries. Public libraries are just not in a position to compete with the other basic services, such as police, fire, and sanitation.

Mr. PATTEN. You know this is the 41st year I am working on budgetmaking. The first one was in 1934. We went to our political leader, it involved a tremendous increase in the budget. He said, come back and cut it 10 percent or do not ever come back to me again. So we went back, and what do you think was the first thing they cut out? The libraries. I worked for the State for 8 years. I will never forget some years we worked hard but somebody would be running for Governor on the promise of new taxes, and lo and behold, when it came back, at the last minute, library money was out. So you think revenue sharing

Dr. BURKHARDT. It is true in the educational world, too. Libraries are sitting ducks for saving money, apparently. Yet library service is one of the most important functions a university has to perform.

NEEDS OF ELDERLY

Mr. PATTEN. When you are making all these analyses and studies, are you keeping in mind the need of the elderly citizens? Dr. BURKHARDT. Yes, indeed.

NEED FOR NEW POSITIONS

Mr. PATTEN. You are back again this year asking for four more permanent positions in addition to the five you currently have. This committee turned down that request last year.

Give us some good reasons in more detail why we should not cut you aoin this vear.

Dr. BURKHARDT. Mr. Chairman, as I tried to indicate, if you would sit for a day or two at the National Commission offices, you would see the amount of work, the number of demands that are made on these five people. They have a large constituency to deal with, in addition to the other Federal agencies. They have all these other library and information science professional associations to deal with. They all want to know what the Commission is doing. The library and information science people have great hopes built up because now, at last, there is an agency that is supposed to tend to their needs. The Commission also wants to get on with planning, and the staff has to prepare the agenda for that. It is just not possible for such a small staff to do the kind of job that has been given us. When you read the public law that created the Commission and you take it literally and honestlv. Mr. Chairman. vou cannot expect the job to be done with three professional people. It just isn't humanly possible. That is all that I

can say.

We have specific jobs to get done which we have spelled out on page 2 of the document labeled "Justification of salaries and expenses." There are six different things we want to get to right away, such as working out the components that are going to be needed for bibliographic control. By that we mean we have got to get a standard form for entering a book or a document. The way librarians now catalog books and periodicals varies from library to library, and if we are going to have a system that works effectively, we are going to have to get down to a standard form so that we will know how to find a book or document, and how to get the right information in time. All of this involves a very complicated technical job of arriving at one system for registering, locating, and controlling the books and documents.

RESEARCH ASSISTANT SALARIES

Mr. PATTEN. You are asking for three additional research assistants. Why is it necessary to pay a research assistant $18,463 a year? Can't you get them for less?

Mr. BURKHARDT. The kind of people we want are people who will be doing responsible work, that we can trust. They are going to have to be professionals with degrees and experience. If you look at the competition we have now: in business, industry, and so forth, I think we must be prepared to pay something like that if you are to get three competent people.

Mr. TREZZA. The beginning salary which the Library of Congress pays is just under $13,000. We are going to obtain staff with limited experience even for $18,000. We need staff with sufficient experience to do research in library and information science. They must also monitor and evaluate studies. We felt we couldn't start any higher than $18,453. We are trying to be as responsible as we can on classification and salaries.

COMPENSATION OF COMMISSION MEMBERS

Mr. PATTEN. How are the members of the Commission compensated? Dr. BURKHARDT. An expense per diem basis; $138 a day when they work and $25 per diem in travel.

Mr. PATTEN. Place in the record the amount each member received in fiscal year 1974.

Note: During fiscal year 1974, the following members served without compensation: Andrew A. Aines, William O. Baker, Martin Goland, John G. Lorenz and Catherine Scott.

COORDINATION WITH OFFICE OF EDUCATION

Mr. PATTEN. How do you work on a day-to-day basis with the library people in the Office of Education or do you?

Mr. TREZZA. That is my job. I try to do that. For example, just a month and a half ago I met with Dick W. Hays, who is the Acting Director, Office of Library and Learning Resources at the Office of Education and his staff. We discussed mutual problems, current legislation, the proposed White House Conference, et cetera. One of the services we have offered to provide for them is to act in an advisory capacity. They no longer have an advisory committee and the hope is that the Commission can act in this capacity.

We will work with them in trying to implement our program in the areas of their responsibility. We hope to develop a close working relationship.

One of the themes we stress in our discussions with OMB as well as with the Office of Libraries and Learning Resources at HEW is our legal mission. Public Law 91-345 states that the Commission has a responsibility for developing a national program and for advising the Congress and the President on matters of National library policy. So we have offered both agencies our help in reconsidering the administration's current policy on library programs. The current philosophy and program have been rejected by Congress and the library profession for 5 years.

We don't know if they will accept our offer of help but we will continue to make the effort to get them to use our good offices to develop a new initiative for the administration.

STANDARD LEVEL USER CHARGES

Mr. PATTEN. The amount of money in this request for payment of standard level user charges to GSA, how does that compare with fiscal year 1975?

Mr. TREZZA. It is the same until we enlarge our staff.

EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS SALARY

Mr. PATTEN. Your justification shows a so-called built-in increase of $7,926 that will provide for the Executive Director's salary to be increased to the GS-18 level when the $36,000 limit is lifted.

Do you know something that I don't know?

Dr. BURKHARDT. I wish we did.

Mr. Chairman, I think that may have to be amended.

Mr. TREZZA. At the time we were developing our budget there was discussion by the administration and the Congress of making an adjustment for salaries in the super grades. Since that time, of course, there has been a change in the economy and there seems to be little hope of any salary increase for fiscal year 1976. We felt we had to include the amount on the possibility that a change might be made. An adjustment would now seem in order.

WHITE HOUSE CONFERENCE

Mr. PATTEN. How are you coming with your 1978 White House Conference?