of Spanish-speaking people, particularly in the areas of Atlanta, Dallas, Denver, San Francisco, Chicago, and New York. This regional effort was to localize the opportunities within the Federal Government, both in employment and in funding possibilities. Although our resources were limited, we feel that this effort was very successful and very effective. For the first time, the Spanishspeaking groups in those areas have become very aware and knowledgeable of opportunities that are present in those Federal regional offices. These are examples of activities that we have designed. There are other programs that have not been as productive, but since it is difficult for me to remember them, I will supply them for the record. [The information follows:] The Cabinet Committee has attempted to have each Government department and agency appoint a liaison representative to coordinate activities with our staff. Through joint efforts, the liaison representative and the Cabinet Committee staff would establish realistic goals and timetables to insure equitable Spanishspeaking participation and representation in employment, program deliveries, procurement and contract compliance. The Cabinet Committee accomplished only slight success in persuading agencies to submit quarterly reports evaluating their progress in seeing to it that the Spanish speaking receive a fair share of the jobs and program funding. But the degree of success has not been the type that would enable the Cabinet Committee to properly gage the progress of the Spanish-speaking in Government. In addition, liaison Government representatives were assigned to advise CCOSSP staff members, and task force committees were activated to develop monitoring and reporting systems. However, the process of collecting data pertinent to the problems and needs of the Spanish-speaking still must be accelerated if viable results are to be realized. Dr. RAMIREZ. Basically, we have not up to this time designed programs for other agencies. As I indicated before, we have played the role of adviser, the role of coordinator. We have a task force that drew up a migrant position paper. We intend to share this paper with the relevant agencies. It is our hope that it will be productive. I indicated in my testimony last year that we planned to develop this paper. We have done so now. We feel that our paper supports recommendations which could bring about a national coordination of migrant programs at a very high level to maximize the effectiveness of the dollars expended in this area. Mr. NATCHER. Do you want to amplify that, Doctor, when you get the transcript back? Dr. RAMIREZ. Certainly, Mr. Chairman. [The information follows:] Originally, our intention was to conduct a comprehensive examination of programs affecting migrants and other seasonal farmworks. However, we soon learned of the study undertaken by the General Accounting Office (GAO). We recognized that GAO had greater resources available to support their review of migrant programs and were satisfied with the proposed scope of their project. However, we did go ahead with our separate study. Our findings are based on research within a more narrow framework than the GAO report. In essence, our paper is a summary statement which reaffirms the conclusions and recommendations of GAO's report to Congress. We, too, support the need to develop an overall plan and a common direction of effort among Federal agencies operating migrant programs. Our recommendations for interagency coordination extend through the Federal, State, and local levels. We use Michigan's interagency effort as an example of successful coodination for providing services to a highly mobile population. Mr. NATCHER. Mr. Michel. Mr. MICHEL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Doctor, how long have you been Chairman of the Cabinet Committee? Dr. RAMIREZ. I was appointed on August 5, 1971, which is almost 21 months ago, and I was confirmed by the Senate about 15 months ago. COMMUNICATION WITH CABINET MEMBERS Mr. MICHEL. You said in answer to the chairman's question that the committee had only met three times since you have been chairman, and I am not sure whether that is good or bad. It certainly isn't many times. Does that mean there is no need for the committee to get together, that when they get together there is really not too much to talk about, or that you are in communication with them in other ways in the absence of a meeting? I wonder whether or not it is really effective or whether it is worth being over that period of time. Tell me where I am wrong. Dr. RAMIREZ. Sir, I believe that every meeting we have had has been effective. In addition, I might point out that it is very difficult to gather the Secretaries together for Cabinet meetings in this area. However, let me point out that I am in constant communication with the Secretaries and the Under Secretaries by telephone, through correspondence, through meetings of a smaller nature at the White House, and other places. We have developed a relationship that has placed us in a position to effectuate changes. We also offer advice in a solid, responsible, mature way to these very busy and responsible individuals at the highest levels of Government. If we were a committee that met in the style of an interagency committee with GS-15's and GS-16's, we certainly could not influence policies, directions, and programs which bring a full range of opportunities to the Spanish-speaking people in this country, as well as we can by meeting with the Secretaries, the Assistant Secretaries, and the agency heads, as is now the case. So the meetings we have had have been productive in that they have promoted better working relationships and better understanding in the program areas that benefit Spanish-speaking people. Let me give you an example. We helped to convene a meeting of a subcommittee of this Cabinet Committee in San Francisco, on February 5 of last year. The purpose was to discuss employment opportunities with the leaders of major Spanish-speaking organizations and the directors of the Federal regional offices in the State of California. That was an example of a productive relationship. I believe that, with the participation and the relationship we have had with these gentlemen, we have arrived at some very effective changes in our country and in our Government, to the point that with this progress I foresee what I said last year, consistent with these changes, in several years the Spanish speaking will be able to take care of themselves. 95-751 - 73 - pt. 6 - 6 16-POINT PROGRAM Mr. MICHEL. You mention several times the 16-point program and I don't think we have had that displayed here in the record, so would you fill it out and let us have those 16 points enumerated here? [The information follows:] PRESIDENT NIXON'S 16-POINT PROGRAM On November 5, 1970, President Richard M. Nixon announced a 16-Point Program to assist Spanish-speaking Americans who are interested in joining Federal civilian service. The steps being undertaken are as follows: (1) Appoint full-time official in the Civil Service Commission to provide advice and assistance on matters relating to the Spanish-surnamed population and to assure full application of the EEO program in all Federal agencies to this group. (2) An intensified drive to recruit Spanish-surnamed persons, particularly for identified public contact positions, in areas of heavy Spanish-speaking population, including the Southwestern States and Chicago, Detroit, and New York, as well as certain other major metropolitan areas. (3) Use specialized recruitment teams, to include Spanish-speaking persons, for college recruitment, particularly at colleges with heavy Spanish-speaking enrollments. (4) Begin work immediately with OEO, HEW, HUD, and Labor Department to find ways to enhance opportunities at all levels for Spanish-surnamed Americans in programs dealing with the Spanish-speaking population as well as in other programs, and in key occupations. (5) Step up recruitment for the cooperative education program at colleges with significant numbers of Spanish-speaking students to permit entry from FSEE registers without necessity of written examination. (6) Emphasize to Federal agencies availability of selective placement on bilingual basis so Spanish-speaking persons may be reached for appointment to positions dealing with the Spanish-surnamed population. (7) Hold an EEO conference of Federal managers and equal opportunity officials in the Southwest designed to assure equal opportunity for Spanish-speaking persons in employment and upward mobility in Federal agencies. (8) Develop plans for Federal agencies under CSC area office leadership to work with high schools in Spanish-speaking areas to make known job opportunities in the Federal Government and to counsel and to encourage students to stay in school. (9) Hire for summer employment in Federal agencies high school and college teachers from schools serving Spanish-speaking students to give them understanding of the Federal Government which they can relate to students. (10) Make a special effort to inform Spanish-surnamed veterans of availability of noncompetitive appointments for Vietnam area, veterans including GS-5 level. (11) Require Federal agencies to review their EEO action plans and minority employment figures and make any necessary revisions to assure the full applicability of the plans to the Spanish-surnamed population. (12) Review with agencies the staffing of EEO program to make sure that there is understanding in the program of the special problems of the Spanish speaking. (13) Provide additional training programs on EEO and personnel management for Federal managers in areas of Spanish-speaking population. (14) With the Department of Labor, explore the feasibility of establishing an intergovernmental training facility for upward mobility and skills training for Federal, State, and local careers in the Southwest, probably in San Antonio. (15) Collect necessary data and broaden analysis of minority statistics to bring out special information relating to employment and upward mobility of Spanish-surnamed persons in the Federal Government. (16) Require EEO reports from agencies to reflect special information on Spanish-surnamed persons and include in the CSC agenda for EEO evaluation questions directed at particular problems relating to employment and upward mobility of Spanish-surnamed persons. CENSUS BUREAU COUNT Mr. MICHEL. You say that you are working with the Census Bureau to help perfect the counting system for the next census survey. What do you mean by the "counting system"? Are you referring to identifying Spanish-speaking people, or those who regard Spanish as their primary language, or would you include those who are third or fourth generation? How far down the line do you go in embracing Spanish-speaking people for the purpose of counting by the Census Bureau? Dr. RAMIREZ. The Census Bureau has developed a formula which includes two items, among others. One is designation by country of origin. The other is self-identification by the individual. We hope to make this count more effective in the 1980's by the following steps: First, by disseminating through publicity and other related ways to the Spanish-speaking people in this country, the absolute need, the essentiality, of being counted. In the last census, there was a very, very minimal effort to inform the Spanish-speaking about the importance of being counted. Perhaps $10,000 was expended for this purpose, whereas with another well known minority, it went into the millions of dollars. Second, by bringing more Spanish-speaking people into the process of the planning and designing of the counting system at this time. That is, people who are knowledgeable of the difficulties and the barriers involved in counting the Spanish-speaking community. We have helped the Census Bureau enlist the services of a recruiter, an ex-Army captain by the name of Mr. Saldana. He has been working very energetically to bring demographers and skilled Spanish-speaking individuals into the Census Bureau so that these difficulties can be minimized. Third, by involving Spanish-speaking persons on the advisory community which draw up these plans. We anticipate being more fully involved in the total planning process, so that our people will be very aware of the necessity of being counted the next time around. These are some of the steps that we have taken. ASSIMILATION OF SPANISH SPEAKING Mr. MICHEL. Let me ask just one final question here. You say: The committee's basic aim is to institutionalize the idea that the Spanishspeaking are an integral part of this Nation. That is a good statement. I am with it wholeheartedly. Now let me be the devil's advocate for a moment and ask, what do you perceive as the long-range goal of the Spanish-speaking immigrant in the United States? I would like to think, as you say, your basic aim is to institutionalize the idea of the Spanish-speaking being part of this country when they come here, but is it a basic aim of this ethnic group to perpetuate their speaking Spanish as a principal language or becoming Americanized to the extent of considering English as the basic language and Spanish as their secondary language? In other words, are we 50 years from now still going to have a problem of bilingual education if, for example, we should close the door to the immigration of further Spanish-speaking nationals? Is that a necessary part of this institutionalizing thing that they would consider that, "By gory, we came to this country speaking Spanish and we are going to continue speaking that for generations to come." It may be good. It may not be so. See, there is a natural reaction. There are many in this country from German heritage, Italian, from French, Chinese, you name it, and if we were to set up special bilingual, trilingual education programs in every one of our school systems to accommodate those who come from abroad, of course we would have a real big problem. We have a big enough one now in that respect. I am curious to know, and you are a professional and knowledgeable, so teach me. You tell me. Dr. RAMIREZ. Sir, let me address myself to some of these issues which are basic to our national life. One, the presence of the Spanish language will be determined to a great extent by the immigration that we have from Latin America. A small amount of that is official immigration. A very, very large amount is unofficial, as a trip to restaurants in Washington, D.C. or New York will point out to you. Mr. MICHEL. Or Chicago. Don't forget it. Dr. RAMIREZ. Or Chicago, or Atlanta, Miami. Dr. RAMIREZ. All these cities throughout our country are experiencing a tremendous inflow from Latin America and the presence of Spanish in those families will remain, I dare say, with us as long as our geography remains as it is. As to what will be the level of fluency and usage in the families, I think we see a pattern evolving already. Those families that were in the Southwest before the War with Mexico in 1850 now speak very little Spanish, but there are many cases-I think of Mr. Garcia, whom I know very well in Houston, Tex., an eighth generation Texan, and he still speaks English with difficulty. A gentleman from the valley in Colorado, Valley of San Luis, seventh generation American, spoke English in a broken way. Spanish was his native fluent tongue. Those are some exceptions. You will see as the general relational level moves on, the irrevocable laws of sociology, of assimilation, step in so you have a conversion of many of these people into the immigrant status of today's Italians, Poles, Germans, and so on. As you know, there are many cities in Wisconsin which are still very bilingual in German. There is still a need to provide opportunities for Spanish-speaking people in order to more effectively include them in the fabric of our country. Since they are different from Germans and Italians who have moved on to become a part of our mainstream, efforts such as those made by the Cabinet Committee, are still needed to accelerate this assimilation. There are basic reasons, artificial reasons, for discrimination in today's society. I might say human nature tends to discriminate. Tall |