is the fact that I think it's about time that industry and Government got together to help protect the people of this Nation and it is unfortunate that in the past that we have really prostituted and exploited our environment as we have with little regard for the affects, the long lasting affects it will have upon people of this Nation, and I think I would wholeheartedly support the idea of the New England River Basin compact being extended and doing the job temporarily until such time as we can get a long-range authority to control the abuses that have occurred.

WHOLE POWER PICTURE

Mr. MERRELL. Coupled with this in referring to your question, Congressman, about the nuclear plants for instance, there is a need at some point for electrical power and we know that within the next 15 years that we have good reason to believe there will be a million or more additional people on Long Island that will need electric power. I don't mean to get into a whole power picture here with you, but there are also increasing demands for power by our existing population and the question really gets back to if you didn't do one thing you don't put in the improvements assuming it can be approved, nuclear powerplants, you have the option of perhaps having only other types of plants that have other types of pollution problems much greater perhaps or no electricity at all, maybe; this is something that has to be taken into consideration.

Representative WOLFF. With the approval of the Chair, for one more point on Mr. Merrell's remarks, I think that his point is well taken, we need power; we also need people in this country and we need protection for the people in this country, and unfortunately this seems to have been overlooked at times. I won't get into a long discussion with you on power, I don't object to the idea of nuclear power, I strongly favor it, but I also make a very strong point that the people must be protected before that power is put in because of the fact that should be our long-range objective; we have had too much in the way of particular types of operations that have been started in this country that are having its effect upon us in our environment, and just to let you-unfortunately our place here is soundproof, but get outside for a moment and listen to the effects of airpower in this country upon the citizenry. Thank you very much.

Senator RIBICOFF. Thank you very much.

Mrs. Binnian.

STATEMENT OF JACQUELINE BINNIAN, VICE PRESIDENT, ACTION

Mrs. BINNIAN. Thank you Senator Ribicoff, I am Jacqueline Binnian, vice president of Action. I do appreciate the opportunity to appear before your committee. We have no representative from the easterly end of the island at this hearing and we don't seem to have anybody representing us in the easterly end in Congress who is an offcial representative in environmental understanding, that's why I wish to be heard. We are Action for Preservation and Conservation of the North Shore of Long Island, Inc., over 6 years old. We have been to Albany and Washington on many hearings, representing over half a million people, and we helped Mrs. Stern get started, she's doing a fantastic job, but it's very difficult for one group to cover all of Long

Island and her job is more representative of Nassau than Suffolk. I would like to read Action's statement, and reply to two or three of the statements made in previous testimony.

H.R. 12389 ENDORSED

We have also testified that we endorse Congressman Wolff's bill H.R. 12389, and we hereby endorse Senator Ribicoff's bill S. 2472. However, we would like to ask that consideration be given to the following suggestions to implement these bills.

We suggest that more serious study be given to the San Francisco Bay and Development Commission. This commission proposed several measures which should be incorporated into any measures to protect Long Island Sound, among them:

1. There must be review powers during the planning stage;

2. There should be scheduled hearings from time to time during the study; we realize a lot of time is needed to hear from the individual groups and people who have been working more colsely in the areas but their political representatives have no opportunity, but through hearings, to become informed;

3. A representative of the Army Corps of Engineers, should be included in the commission;

4. Dates for the beginning and end of the study should be set. Presently, we're talking while Rome is burning: it is very important to get this Long Island study underway before damage is done to the sound area.

5. The commission members must have no conflict of interest. Many of us who have been working very hard, especially those of us responsible for the Conservation Bill of Rights in our State, New York State, are aware of the conflict problem. We hope the Federal Government will also have a conservation bill of rights. It appears hard for some of our political representatives to understand that the welfare of our environment must be maintained. Congressman Wolff has certainly been a backbone of this effort.

We also feel that representatives of citizen conservation groups should be included on the commission, and we ask that the resultant legislation should also make local hearings mandatory before projects are undertaken in the future.

MORATORIUM ON NEW CONSTRUCTION

Finally, we consider it essential that a moratorium be placed on new construction, or on any alteration of the shoreline of the sound, for the duration of the study, and until legislation governing Long Island Sound is in effeect. I recognize that Senator Ribicoff mentioned the difficulties involved in the moratorium; testimony this morning portrays industry to be anxious to control Long Island Sound, which we oppose, we feel there should be some industry and preservation to assure people living here. A moratorium will provide pressure so that during that moratorium people must do their job and come up with the proper answers. As it is they are not being fined properly, nor bonded. Industry is going its own sweet way and laws are not being enforced. If cases go to court, they are considered in civil courts rather than in equity court. Long Island Sound is a tremendous problem. It is im

portant that we have the moratorium as it is the only way to put pressure on enforcement of this commission.

PUBLIC INTEREST

Senator RIBICOFF. If you say laws that are now in effect are being violated and the State's attorneys or the Attorney General fails to take action, there is no reason why you can't get private counsel and get injunctive relief. Basically today there are a large body of young lawyers who are deeply concerned with the public interest and who would be more than pleased, in my opinion, to plead your cause at a very nominal fee because this is one of the encouraging parts of what is happening in this country today, and with the issue of environment that has such meaning and such strong support, I think you would find action, and frankly that is the way to get the politicians to listen. The men who hold public office have a duty to enforce the law and I would not let a politician, a Governor, a Congressman or Senator get away with a lot of fancy phrases; make him put up where he is supposed to put up, see that he is doing his job right. The reason politicians get away with things is because the public is indifferent, but if the public and the groups aren't indifferent you will find politicians will take action because they want to get elected and the strongest thing you have got going for you is election day.

Mrs. BINNIAN. Every time the Governor runs for office we get promises.

Senator RIBICOFF. Just remember the promises; that is the problem you have. If the public is indifferent there is not much you can do about that.

PENDING SUIT

Mrs. BINNIAN. Our environmental defense people are doing a very good job. The Lloyd Harbor study group on Long Island has a suit against the AEC to make sure that the proposed nuclear plants for these areas are properly studied. We disagree heartedly with some of the statements that Mr. Wallace made; we feel the new commission appointed by our Governor has broken down all the environmental fences that have been of some structure and some protection. There have been five bills which should be submitted as evidence against environmental needs.

Senator RIBICOFF. Why don't you do that; whatever papers, documents, or statements that you would like to submit for the record, please feel free to send them to us.

Mrs. BINNIAN. We would like to, very much.

Mr. Grainger spoke against the bridge crossing from Oyster Bay to Rye. However, on the plans started in 1930 through the present day there are four other crossings including Port Jefferson, Lloyd Harbor, and Eton's Neck. We have only talked about this area the westerly side, it's not sufficient; we have to talk about all of Long Island Sound, and we hope that Mayor Grainger's very adequate statement and revelations will be considered for the whole sound. Yesterday I returned from spending about 36 hours just sailing along the sound and noting some of the changes. Port Jefferson Harbor has oil on the water's surface. We did not swim yesterday morning because the oil was so evident. There is a dumping ground some distance off the north

shore between Port Jefferson and Northport Harbor which has a terrible odor; it extends for several miles. Is there not raw sewerage flowing into the sound from Larchmont? The State conservation departments must be aware of these problems and many more. I wish Mr. Javits were still here, because there was a request made to the appropriations committee for Federal funds to be used to dredge Port Jefferson Harbor for a private concern which is possibly a 5-year duration, which would ruin the harbor.

If we had the moratorium it would automatically cut any request from Federal funds to assist in something that is not planned. A study and plan should be made available so that everybody knows what should be done. Also in your appointments of people-and I go back to the citizen approach-persons should be appointed who do not have conflicts of interest, and who are not subject to political obligations. Senator RIBICOFF. Thank you very much.

Mrs. BINNIAN. May I include Supervisor Ambro's letter in the testimony?

Senator RIBICOFF. Certainly.

(See exhibit 24, p. 407.)

Mr. LEVITT. Could I make a brief comment?

Senator RIBICOFF. You certainly may.

Mr. LEVITT. My name is Mark Levitt and I'm from Stony Brook, Long Island. I would just like to report that the Suffolk County legislature met on Tuesday and decided among other things to seriously consider installing a tertiary treatment plant of sewage in Port Jefferson Harbor. As you note, according to that map it is the only SC area along the whole north. There is presently a primary plant, and I mention this because Congressman Weicker before noted that the way that we solve the problems or that we won't be able to solve the problems until there is enough secondary treatment of sewage. Now, it so happens that according to the state of technology in very recent times-recent months in fact-tertiary treatment which would in effect give us water which could be implemented at a cost comparable to secondary treatment, assuming that you don't put one on top of the other and go directly from primary to tertiary.

Senator RIBICOFF. Thank you very much.

Mr. LEVITT. That was one of the points I wanted to make.

Senator RIBICOFF. Is there anybody else who wants to say anything? I understand that Raymond J. Rice is here and would like to have some material inserted in the record.

(See exhibit 25, p. 408.)

Senator RIBICOFF. The committee will stand adjourned subject to the call of the Chair.

(Whereupon, at 12:45 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.)

(The exhibits follow:)

EXHIBIT 23

STATEMENT OF DR. JOHN M. DENOYER, DIRECTOR OF EARTH OBSERVATIONS PROGRAMS, OFFICE OF SPACE SCIENCE AND APPLICATIONS, NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee: It is my pleasure to review some portions of the NASA Earth Observations Programs that have application to solving problems in pollution abatement. Possibly of even greater importance, these same methods can provide planners with an improved capability for

predicting the consequences of man's modification of the environment so that the pros and cons of alternative actions can be assessed prior to implementation. NASA's role in the Earth Observations Programs is to carry out the research and development required to build, launch, and evaluate in orbit experimental and operational prototypes of spacecraft for conducting resource and environmental surveys. Much of the experimental effort has been conducted using low, intermediate, and high altitude aircraft to determine the value of various instrument systems in solving resource and environmental problems and to form a firm basis for determining what can be measured from space and how to design efficient surveying systems using a combination of space, aircraft and ground based methods. NASA works directly with other government agencies and with individual scientists to determine the requirements for such surveys and to develop the measurement capabilities that are necessary. The agencies most active in these cooperative programs are the Department of Commerce, Department of the Interior, Department of Agriculture, and the Navy Department. We have made significant progress in determining the requirements and measurement methods that are necessary for several types of surveys.

This program has been directed primarily toward resources, both renewable and non-renewable. One of the very important resources is water. Two significant capabilities have been demonstrated in the hydrologic and estuarine investigations. These are the use of thermal mapping for surface temperature and the use of special photography that enhances the sediment lode in the water. Methods for using both of these techniques are now readily available and can be employed on an operational basis by appropriate organizations.

NASA is developing additional techniques for future use. While these methods do not provide direct measurements of the amount and type of a large variety of pollutants, they do provide important clues that can guide sampling programs. These are, however, in the research and evaluation stage and are not ready for operational use. We are continuing to use the well-developed methods for direct comparison with newer measurement techniques and to extend the range of utility of these measurement methods.

Just surveillance does not contribute enough to solving pollution problems. An additional requirement is that the dynamics or time-dependent movement of water be known. This is true for streams, rivers, estuaries, ground water, and in the ocean itself, and is a primary factor in assessing the results of man-made and natural materials within these bodies of water. Determining the dynamics is now possible and has been done for the Connecticut River estuary. In this case, it is possible to predict the direction and speed of movement of the water at any time throughout the tidal cycle. The method of water movement in estuaries also depends on the rate of in-flow of fresh water from tributaries.

Mathematical models of such water bodies can be designed through a sequence of detailed simultaneous measurements within the water body. A more rapid way of determining the dynamics is to obtain repetitive coverage using remote sensing techniques. These techniques allow the distribution of surface temperatures and the presence of sediment to be located at successive times. In this way, it is possible to measure the complicated and time-varying flow patterns that are present. Dye tracers can also be used where natural or accidental indicators are not present. Even with a limited amount of such remote sensor data it is possible to design a much more meaningful measurement program using instruments in the water. Some measurements within the water are essential to determining the absolute velocities and directions of flow and water quality.

Pollutants follow courses determined by the water movement. If these courses are determined, the measurement of pollutants can be conducted by taking samples at the most meaningful locations. As an example, a water quality monitoring station was located on one side of the Maumee River near where it empties into Lake Erie. Subsequent remote sensor data revealed that pollutant effluents were flowing down the other side of the river and were not being adequately measured by the water quality gauge. As an added note of interest, these pollutants were impounded by a man-made barrier near the entrance into Lake Erie. Such imagery makes it possible to correct the location of water quality stations so that they will provide meaningful information on the degree of pollution. The remote sensor data also provides information on what portions of water bodies have the least pollution.

The NASA Aircraft Program, in support of the Earth Resources Survey Program, has been primarily engaged in instrument development and individual investigations for very specific resource and environmental evaluations. This program has been reoriented in preparation for interpretation of satellite data