cause of Federal intervention or Federal control. In all my years presiding over this subcommittee, when that argument has been offered by a witness, I simply paused long enough to say, "Come on, give me some evidence." No witness to date has offered a scintilla of evidence of Federal interference, domination, or control of a single school district in this country. We have got to get this out in the open again and again until it is scotched.

Now, I agree with everything that you say about the importance of providing adequate Federal aid to the elementary and secondary schools, much more important than providing aid to the colleges and universities of this country, as important as that is. No one has worked harder than the chairman of this subcommittee for Federal aid to the colleges and universities of this country and I will continue to so do, but what I am trying to do here and now is to get as many people as I can to see and understand the fact that we must look at the educational problem in this country in its totality. In my judgment it is more important that we provide adequate support for a child's beginning in the educational ladder climb than that we provide educational support at the end of it at the college and university level. You and I know what our obstacles have been. You and I know that there are some very serious political factors that have made it impossible for us to date to pass a general Federal aid to education bill. I close this little gratuitous advice this morning for this record by saying that unless the American people face up to it, unless the American people face up to it quickly, and stop wasting the potential brainpower of this country, unless they do something to provide the aid to tackle the problems that are created, that are basically the cause of some of the disturbances that blot the social scene of America today, we are headed for a score or two score of years of serious trouble in this country. We cannot waste the precious brainpower resource of this country the way we are doing it and not pay a tragic bill by way of social cost.

As chairman of this subcommittee I pledge that although I have not been able to carry out yet the promise that I made that I was going to give the Senate an opportunity to vote on every segment of S. 580, which was President Kennedy's great legislative program, I shall in this session have done my best to get votes on as many segments of it as possible. I have not been able to get clearance yet for a general Federal aid to education bill for elementary and secondary schools, but I say for this record this morning that come the next session of Congress, I am going to be right in there calling for hearings on proposals of this type again. I may again be confronted with what I have been confronted with in the last 2 years. I may have to segmentize again. This is only a segment that I am offering this morning because I was blocked in trying to get a general Federal aid bill for a variety of reasons which are well known to you, Mr. McKay. I close by saying that the NEA has been criticized by some, unjustly and unfairly, for its work in the field of seeking to obtain Federal aid to education for elementary and secondary schools. I commend the NEA. I want to testify that it has been a great source of strength to this committee in helping us to accomplish what we have already accomplished and I am therefore greatly pleased that in your statement this morning you have pointed out that this bill and the other

bills we have offered are no substitutes for a general Federal aid to education bill for elementary and secondary schools. I agree. Next session of Congress, I am going to continue to press for general aid and shall meet such opposition as it arises.

The Senator from Texas.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman, I commend the distinguished chairman of this subcommittee for calling these hearings. It is my honored privilege to be a cosponsor of the bills S. 2528 and S. 2725, and I want to make a remark off the record here.

(Discussion off the record.)

Senator YARBOROUGH. I want to say, Mr. Chairman, that I am not discouraged about the output of education legislation of this 88th Congress. I am disappointed it is not more, but with the five acts that have already been passed, we have an educational legislative output that is one of the most fruitful in the history of this country.

We have the Medical Education Act to build medical schools and lend money to students who go there to help students borrow money which relieves that much pressure on the National Defense Education Act loans, and the College Facilities Act to build academic facilities and libraries in colleges; and the Vocational Education Act which has the work-study plan to pay students to work half a day so as to earn enough money to go to school half a day, to build residences in vocational schools with Federal Government assistance for the first time in history. We also have the Mental Retardation Act which has special educational provisions to train teachers of both the mentally retarded and any handicapped child, and then the Library Facilities Act which extends the Library Act to cities of any size to get books into the hands of people. And now we have the action of the full committee yesterday, sparked by the action of your subcommittee in the expansion of the National Defense Education Act into certain fields of social science. I regret that the National Defense Education Act does not apply to all the field of social science.

I yield to the distinguished chairman.

Senator MORSE. I am so glad the Senator from Texas has made the statement he made because although we know that there are many needs still to be met, President Johnson is quite right when he pointed out at the time that he signed the higher education bill, the MorseGreen Act and the Vocational Education Act, the Morse-Perkins bill, that those bills along with the other bills that the Senator from Texas has mentioned constitute greater progress in this Congress than has been made in all of the 100 years preceding. More progress has been made in the matter of education legislation in this session of Congress than in a century. In fact, the last great landmark educational bill, as President Johnson pointed out, was the Morrill Act of 1862, and I do not want the Senator to be embarrassed at all when I say that we could have made a much better record if we could have adopted the most democratic educational bill that anyone has proposed, and that is the GI bill for peacetime veterans to do for them what the GI bills of World War II did for World War II and Korean veterans.

We are going to fight for that come the next session of Congress, along with an elementary and secondary school aid bill. But I am glad that you have put in this record the accomplishment of the Congress in this session. From my vantage point sometimes I can

see only the things that we did not do that we ought to have done, but when we take a look at what was accomplished, I want to say that it could not have been accomplished without the loyal support of such men as the Senator from Texas and such organizations as the organizations that are testifying here this morning.

Senator YARBOROUGH. I thank my colleague, the distinguished Senator from Oregon, for these kind remarks. I feel very keenly about this GI bill because that group of young people is the only group that the Federal Government pulls out of their environment and denies an education. These bills we have here deal with children whose opportunities are lessened by public disasters that strike their areas, by the fact that they live in areas of substantial unemployment, with unemployed parents with needy children and needy families.

All of those things are things that the Federal Government did not want, did not will, did not bring about. They came about against the will and hopes and desires of the Federal Government.

Now in the case of GI's, the Federal Government has reached out and drafted 44 percent of the young men. Only 44 percent serve, 44 percent in the best physical condition, and many with high IQ's. It puts them in service for over 2 years each, which puts them more than 2 years behind the 56 percent of the young men who do not serve. And then they are cast back out on the civilian population without training for jobs, without education, and yet the Defense Department is the foremost opponent of the GI bill. Apparently they want to keep these men in the status of "dogfaces," as they called them and force them to reenlist. And it is the greatest injustice this Government, the U.S. Government, has perpetrated.

In most fields in this country, this Government is working to try to prevent any injustice. In this field, this Government both perpetrates and perpetuates injustice.

I have supported this bill since January. I shall never cease to fight for it so long as I am in the Congress and the bill is unpassed. I thank the distinguished chairman for mentioning it. I thank him for his constant, vigorous, and public support of that measure. And with 39 Senators cosponsoring it, it takes a lot of obduracy in the executive department of the Government to thwart the hopes of this many millions of people at this time. I think it is time that the executive department in all of its branches, mainly the Budget and Defense Department, awakens to justice and reality in this country. We have over 4 million college people in this country under the bills of World War II and the Korean war, and a number of them sit in the Halls of Congress. Two of them are in the Cabinet of the United States. I would place those bills in the same class as the Morrill Land Grant College Act of 1862, the great constructive education legislation of the Congress of the United States. It is matched only by the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 for its impact on education. I am grateful to the distinguished chairman who brought this bill up. I was waiting for it, Mr. Chairman. You beat me to it. Thank you.

Someone said every time you have an educational bill, I bring up the GI bill regardless of the field. I am reminded of the playwright's statement, "when justice is to be done, my Lord, all seasons are summer and all voices are singing." Now, to come back to this specific legisla

tion, Mr. McKay, in this S. 2528, in the first section of it, page 2, lines 7 and 8, it provides assistance to local education agencies in the education of children of needy families.

You discussed that. But concerning children residing in areas of substantial unemployment with unemployed parents, do you have any statistics on that latter clause in there?

Mr. McKAY. Yes, Senator. As of January of this year, 1964, the Secretary of Labor had designated 39 such geographic areas.

Senator YARBOROUGH. You say these are already designated? Mr. MCKAY. Yes. This is a process which the Secretary of Labor periodically goes through for other purposes and I think the index to which the chairman refers reflects this condition. There are 39 of them in the country. I am sure that counsel has a list available for the record and for the Senator. There are a number in the Appalachia area, at least a portion of it in Pennsylvania.

Selfishly, from my regional position in the West, there are four areas in the great and supposedly wealthy State of California that are included in areas of substantial unemployment, including San Diego, San Jose, Stockton, and Fresno. I at the moment fail to see any from the yes, there is one, the Beaumont-Port Arthur area in Texas. I believe that is the only one from your home State, sir. But this is a tabulation which is already established by the Secretary of Labor.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman, I request that the tabulation be placed in the record.

Senator MORSE. I believe it is already in the record. If not, it will be put in the record.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Thank you. You used the criteria already determined by the Department of Labor for the application of other laws, unemployment laws, relief laws, et cetera.

Mr. McKAY. Not for educational purposes, sir, but for other purposes.

Senator YARBOROUGH. That is what I mean. These are established for other purposes.

Mr. MCKAY. Yes.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Under this bill, you would take those areas previously established by the Department of Labor for other purposes? Mr. MCKAY. That is true.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Under their criteria for determining what are areas of substantial unemployment?

Mr. MCKAY. That is true.

Senator YARBOROUGH. And you would use this?

Mr. McKAY. That is right.

Senator YARBOROUGH. I want to say here, Mr. Chairman, I think there is a great deal of peripheral benefit from this impacted area aid in another score. We know the great resistance in this country to Federal aid to education. I believe that about a third of the children of America in public schools go to schools in districts that receive Federal aid as impacted areas.

Senator MORSE. That is right.

Senator YARBOROUGH. It is about a third or so. As to these districts, it seems to me, a great deal of education work is going on with the help of Federal aid. When we consider that one-third of the

students in the schools over the United States are in districts now receiving aid, many fears of Federal aid should be allayed.

While the chairman has pointed out it is not necessarily on the basis of need that aid is given in each case; it is in many cases. I had two superintendents in my office this week from small districts with large Federal installations nearby in which over 50 percent of the pupils were Federal pupils.

Senator MORSE. There is great need for it. I want to eliminate the abuses that have crept into it.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Thank you.

Mr. MCKAY. Mr. Chairman, may I express the appreciation of the NEA for the chairman's kind remarks about the NEA and again express the appreciation of the NEA for the tremendous contributions which the distinguished chairman has made in the field of higher education, vocational education and other areas of need in the educational field.

For the record, may I also indicate the concurrence of the NEA in the Senator's observations with respect to the need for continuing the impact program. It is the belief of the NEA that the present factors used in determining eligibility are too narrow and should be expanded, and we are delighted that this bill reflects at least two of the possible ways of doing it. There are others which we hope may be explored by this committee and by other arms of the Congress. We appreciate very much this opportunity to express our point of view and we are most grateful to the Senator for his courtesy, and Senator Yarborough also.

Senator MORSE. You have been very helpful. We are going to continue to draw upon your knowledge and assistance to us next year. The next witness will be Mr. Richard H. Lawrence, coordinator of legislation and special projects, Los Angeles city schools, California. We are delighted to have you with us. Take a seat and proceed in your own way.

STATEMENT OF RICHARD H. LAWRENCE, COORDINATOR OF LEGISLATION AND SPECIAL PROJECTS, LOS ANGELES CITY SCHOOLS, CALIFORNIA

Mr. LAWRENCE. Mr. Chairman, members of the subcommittee, I am grateful for the privilege that has been accorded me to submit this testimony in support of the proposed amendments to Public Law 874, S. 2528.

Gentlemen, I am Richard H. Lawrence, coordinator of legislation and special projects in the office of the superintendent for the Los Angeles city school districts.

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The Los Angeles school districts are the second largest school tem in the United States, and serve over 740,000 students contained in an area of approximately 880 square miles. This student population represents slightly less than 20 percent of the total student population for the entire State of California. In other words, one out of every five students in California attend schools in Los Angeles.

In speaking to you this morning, I am speaking at a point in the history of our Nation that may be referred to as the "era of society's organization for continuing change."