Senator DOUGLAS. Are the hangouts of the right-wing Massachusetts Federalists to be saved?

Senator KENNEDY. Those are going to be preserved.

Senator DOUGLAS. They are to be saved? Timothy Pickering's house is going to be saved?

Senator KENNEDY. As a matter of fact, I think that is one of the ones that was included in the preservation.

Senator DOUGLAS. As long as you don't put up a plaque in honor of Timothy Pickering, that is all right.

Senator PROXMIRE. Senator Muskie.

Senator MUSKIE. I am sorry that I was late and did not hear the Senator's statement, but I do appreciate his testimony, and the support of the legislation and also his suggestion for an amendment. I think that it is deserving of consideration.

I might say in response to a comment by Senator Douglas that there is a companion bill, Senator Douglas, S. 3098, that has been referred to the Committee on Interior, which would establish a national register of historic building sites and objects.

We agree with you that this should be centralized, this business of identifying appropriate historic objects for preservation.

Senator DOUGLAS. Lest the Puritans misunderstand my comments, my reference to Scully Square as a cultural center was sardonic and ironic.

Senator KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I have a report here of the Legislative Research Council relative to historic preservation programs for cities and towns of the Commonwealth. It can be made available to the staff if they are interested.

Senator PROXMIRE. Very good.

Senator Muskie?

Senator MUSKIE. Mr. Chairman, I know it is late in the morning and I have a prepared statement which I would like to include in the record.

Senator PROXMIRE. Without obiection. that will be done.

Senator MUSKIE. I would like to say just this, briefly, before the testimony by the distinguished witnesses we have here this morning. I recognize them all from considerable association with them last fall as we undertook to study what is being done in Europe, several countries in Europe, in this field of historic preservation.

In terms of my own interests and knowledge in this field, it was an educational mission. I learned a great deal about what ought to be done in this field, not only from the countries we visited and the leaders we spent time with in Europe but also from my colleagues on the American committee.

We learned, of course, that Europe is historically much older than we are, and so much further down the road of evolution and developing policies to deal with the problem. But we also had emphasized to us the advisability and wisdom of beginning this task at an early stage in the United States, because of the very great rapidity with which we are destroying the evidence of our physical past, with the interstate highway program which so quickly cuts a swath through our cities and usually the older sections of those cities.

We sometimes seem to take the view that it is easier and simpler to get these physical problems out of the way, rather than to try to

evaluate them and do something about saving them. I think it is very important we apply ourselves to this task.

I was very much reassured by the fact that the Republican State Convention in my State this past week adopted a historic preservation plan in its platform. So we are beginning at the grassroots. We hope here we can convince the highest policy makers of the country that we are to do it here as well.

(Senator Muskie's prepared statement follows:)

STATEMENT ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION BY EDMUND S. MUSKIE, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MAINE

During the last two centuries, Americans have created many structures and sites of lasting value-historically, architecturally, socially, and culturally. With each year their importance grows.

Many of these structures are now in metropolitan areas or in the path of sprawling urbanism. With accelerating pressures for more space for more construction, increasing numbers of our historic structures are threatened by bulldozers.

To encourage and accelerate historic preservation, to help save for our cities of the future what is best from our past. I introduced S. 3097.

S. 3097 will give communities credit toward their noncash share of urban renewal costs for money spent buying and restoring historic buildings in or out of renewal areas.

It will provide grants-in-aid for buying, restoring, and maintaining historic buildings for historic, nonprofit purposes in renewal areas.

It provides grants of up to $90,000 per structure to the National Trust for Historic Preservation for restoring and maintaining structures for historic purposes.

It provides two-thirds grants to communities for surveying historic sites and buildings.

It provides loans to owners or tenants of historic buildings for restoration, if comparable loans are not available elsewhere.

It provides $500,000 over 3 years for fellowships for architects and professional technicians who plan a career in the field of historic preservation

Finally, S. 3097 establishes the National Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, composed of Cabinet members and leaders in the field.

The Council will provide national leadership in our campaign for historic preservation. It will advise the President and the Congress, develop strong national policy, coordinate Federal activities, and encourage broad participation in the program.

Here is why this legislation is necessary:

In the next 40 years, Americans will build more homes, apartments, offices, and other structures than we have built since the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock.

To make room for this new construction, much of what we have built in the last 200 years will have to be torn down.

Already nearly half of our most significant historic buildings are gone. Within another 5 years there will be little left to preserve. It is important that as we build our cities of tomorrow, links with our history remain. To an urban. mobile society legacies from the past provide a sense of belonging and stability. Historic landmarks are a point of orientation of time and place.

It is my hope that S. 3097 will insure that our cities of the future can be enriching hometowns, not simply sterile addresses.

The task we face is great. This year two-thirds of all Americans, or about 130 million persons, live in our cities. In just 34 years, 80 percent of Americansmore than today's entire population-will be city dwellers.

At the time I introduced S. 3097, I also introduced a companion bill, S. 3098. It will establish and maintain a National Register of historic buildings, sites. and objects; authorize funds over the next decade to preserve all listings on the National Register; provide grants to States and communities to carry out surveys, plans, and projects for historic preservation; and provide grants to the National Trust for Historic Preservation to support their work.

Together, S. 3097 and S. 3098 will accelerate our national historic preservation program while there is still time for success. With these two bills, the best of

what we have created in the last 200 years can contribute to the quality of American life in the years to come.

The bills are the result of recommendations made by the Special Committee on Historic Preservation, an independent group sponsored by the U.S. conference of mayors. The recommendations followed a lengthy and thorough study by the special committee of the historic preservation needs of our Nation. I was privileged to serve on the special committee.

Senator PROXMIRE. Thank you very much, Senator Muskie. And thank you, Senator Kennedy. We appreciate your testimony very

much.

We are now going to do something a little bit out of order to accommodate a very valued and esteemed colleague, Senator Inouye. We will ask him to introduce two witnesses who will appear later. Senator Inouye.

STATEMENT OF DANIEL K. INOUYE, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF HAWAII

Senator INOUYE. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am pleased to present at this time Mr. Harlan S. Geldermann and Mr. Warren G. Haight. These two gentlemen represent a joint venture in the development of a new community on 12,000 acres in San Jose, Calif. Mr. Haight is the treasurer of Oceanic Properties, a subsidiary of Castle & Cook Co. in Honolulu and this company is developing a 2,000-acre new community on the outskirts of Honolulu.

These men are here to speak in support of S. 2977, introduced by Senator Sparkman of Alabama. I wish to have the record indicate I support the statements which will be made by these two gentlemen, and I hope the committee will consider their testimony with favor. Thank you very much.

Senator PROXMIRE. Thank you. Next we have Governor Hoff of Mr. Rains, we are glad to see you. with you?

We will hear those witnesses later.
Vermont, and Congressman Rains.
And you also have Mayor Tucker

Mr. RAINS. The mayor is not here, he couldn't come. We have with us Mr. Gordon Gray, however.

Senator PROXMIRE. Mr. Gray. Do you have any other witnesses with you?

Mr. RAINS. There will be just the three of us testifying.

STATEMENT OF ALBERT RAINS, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN FROM THE STATE OF ALABAMA; PHILLIP HOFF, GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF VERMONT, AND GORDON GRAY, CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION

Senator PROXMIRE. Congressman Rains, you are certainly a valued witness. You have been a champion of housing legislation for many years, and we are delighted to have you with us this morning.

Mr. RAINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is a pleasure to testify before this distinguished committee.

Senator MUSKIE. May I say, as a Congressman Mr. Rains was an outstanding success; as chairman of the special committee he was also a success; but as a turkey hunter he is a failure.

Mr. RAINS. Mr. Chairman, my name is Albert Rains, from Gadsden, Ala. I appear today as a private citizen in support of the legislation introduced by Senator Edmund Muskie, my friend and your colleague, S. 3097, legislation that would "encourage and assist in the preservation and maintenance of historic structures." This legislation is cosponsored by a distinguished group of Senators, including the chairman of this subcommittee, Senator Sparkman, the majority leader Mike Mansfield, the majority whip Senator Long, and the minority leader, Senator Dirksen."

The preservation of our great American historical heritage has become a critical problem. Nearly half of the 12,000 structures listed in the Historic American Buildings Survey have already been demolished. Unless we take immediate action, it will be too late.

I might say parenthetically, in addition to this brief statement, that my interest in this particular legislation grew over all of the many years I was the chairman of the Housing Subcommittee on the House side. I don't want to go back and name the number of buildings that I saw torn down in the wake of the bulldozer. But I grew increasingly disturbed, as I know the chairman and the members of this committee have, as I realized we were losing in the wake of so-called progress a great many of the tie-ins with our historical heritage, that I thought then and I believe now should be preserved.

In less than 200 years, America has grown from a sparsely populated agricultural community of States to the most urbanized and technologically advanced Nation in the history of the world.

During these 20 decades and before, American genius has created marvels of mortar and stone. We also have designed charming neighborhoods and streets, restful village greens, bustling marketplaces, and other sites to meet our needs.

In the years ahead, our growth will accelerate. In the next four decades alone, our expanding population and urbanization will require and this is fantastic-more construction than we have witnessed during our first 20 decades. I think that illustrates what confronts the Housing Committees of both Houses.

This means that much of what we have created todate is threatened by the thrust of bulldozers or the corrosion of neglect.

America must move promptly and vigorously to protect the important legacies that remain. This we can achieve without blunting our progress. And this achievement will enrich our progress. With sensitive planning, the past and the future can live as neighbors and contribute jointly to the quality of our civilization.

I had the honor to serve during the past year as chairman of the Special Committee on Historic Preservation. This committee, operating under a grant from the Ford Foundation and sponsored by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, had as its members Senator Edmund Muskie, of Maine; Congressman William Widnall, of New Jersey; Gov. Phillip Hoff, of Vermont; former Mayor Raymond Tucker, of St. Louis: Gordon Gray, of North Carolina, chairman of the national trust; and Laurance G. Henderson.

Serving with us in ex officio capacities were Secretary of Interior Stewart Udall, who was represented by George Hartzog, head of the National Park Service, and Walter Pozen; Secretary of Commerce

John Connor and Rex Whitton, Administrator of the Bureau of Public Roads; Secretary of Housing and Urban Affairs Robert Weaver, and William Slayton, Commissioner of Urban Renewal; and Lawson Knott, Administrator of General Services Administration, and William A. Schmidt, Deputy Commissioner of the Public Buildings Service.

We had a very fine technical staff headed by Carl Feiss. We received invaluable assistance from a great number of historians, architects, and technicians, both within and outside of government.

And the report, I think there is one on your desk, the report is printed by Random House, in a beautiful book which we have presented to you. At this point, Mr. Chairman, I would like to include at the end of my brief testimony the findings of that committee, that special committee, at the conclusion of my testimony.

Senator PROXMIRE. Without objection, it will be so included.

Mr. RAINS. The legislation introduced by Senator Muskie carries out much of the program recommended by the special committee. Identical legislation has also been introduced in the House by Congressman William Widnall.

Briefly, the legislation before your committee would—

(1) Create a National Advisory Council on Historic Preservation that would include six Cabinet members, two Governors, two mayors, a representative of the counties, and four public members eminent in the fields of history, architecture, archaeology, and culture;

(2) Provide for new programs for loans and grants for the acquisition and restoration of structures of historical significance; (3) Permit cities to acquire structures of historical significance for which they would receive credit as local noncash contributions under the urban renewal program;

(4) Set up a 3-year program of fellowships for architects and technicians to meet the critical shortage of trained personnel in the field;

(5) Provide urban planning grants for surveys of historical structures;

(6) Make grants to the national trust for restoration of structures under its administration.

The Widnall-Muskie legislation before your committee has companion legislation now before the Interior Committee which would—

(1) Establish a national register of sites, buildings, and objects significant in American history, architecture, archaetology, and culture. There would be three categories in the register, the first of which, covering such buildings as the Capitol, Mount Vernon, and Monticello, would be "inviolate";

(2) Make grants to States and local governments for surveys, plans, and projects for historic preservation;

(3) Make grants to the National Trust for Historic Preservation to assist in education, service, and financial assistance to preservation projects.

The Muskie bill, I feel, is an imperative measure to save important connecting links with our Nation's past. The cost of the program is nominal in dollars, but the cost of failing to act is beyond measure in dollars.

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