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I was on my own at 18. I financed myself. We did not have any college loans in those days. We did not even have any worthwhile football scholarships. They let me room with the coach in return for playing football.

I got through college, and my bothers got through college, and I went into politics. The rest of them did mighty well financially. One became president of a bank, one a doctor. They were both from Roanoke. Another brother was a contractor.

In my 50 years in politics I have made enough to meet my bills and that is about all. But I have devoted myself to serving a State that has been very kind and generous to me.

And so I give you that background introduction to indicate why I'm here, to say it is a privilege and a pleasure to present representatives of the city of Roanoke who will tell you about the civic center and auditorium and coliseum that they want to build and why it is appropriate that its cost should be counted as a local grant-in-aid toward the Commonwealth redevelopment project in Roanoke (UR-VA-7-1) or other urban renewal projects.

As I understand the general policy, the cost of public facilities in an urban renewal area which serve the area and constitute a necessary part of it may be counted as a local grant-in-aid, but not public facilities which are designed to serve the entire community.

Roanoke is one of Virginia's leading convention cities. The Hotel Roanoke there I think is not only one of the biggest but it is one of the best run hotels in Virginia, and it is a very popular hotel. We find we cannot house a really big convention there I believe in Roanoke. One of the first requirements of a convention city, possibly second only to the need for hotels, is a suitable meeting place or convention hall for large groups. The auditorium and coliseum in the new Roanoke civic center will be invaluable in attracting to Roanoke conventions and meetings of even larger groups than have ever met in Roanoke. While the auditorium and the coliseum will on occasion be used for meetings of Roanoke citizens, I venture to say that their chief use, and perhaps the chief reason for their construction, is to accommodate and attract huge meetings of convention crowds.

At present, the largest meeting Roanoke can accommodate is 600 in the hotel ballroom. And my friends there want a coliseum that can seat 10,000 people. That would accommodate the biggest convention, and it would be a great contribution. But, as you know so well, the civic center would also serve the whole community, and under the law an urban renewal project whose benefits extend beyond the urban renewal area cannot qualify, and this civic center then is in that situation. It is a bona fide urban renewal project, but it will also serve all of this wonderfully fast-growing industrial city.

It seems clear to me that the cost of the center should properly be counted as a local grant-in-aid to the Commonwealth redevelopment project. And in order to permit them to share, as Denver did and as Norfolk did last year, I introduced a bill, S. 3146, in order that this issue might be brought before this committee while legislation pertinent to this subject is being considered, because I think there were some grounds for the complaint of the conferees last year that, while they would go ahead on those two items, they were not going to add on any other similar project this year unless the committee had a chance to act on them and consider them and report one way or the other.

So, Mr. Chairman, I want to present to you my esteemed friend and constituent Benton O. Dillard, the mayor of Roanoke, who will present his claim. He will be accompanied by the vice mayor, Mr. Vincent Wheeler; the city manager, Mr. Julian F. Hirst, and the executive director of the Roanoke Redevelopment Land Agency, Mr. R. R. Henley.

Will you come up to the witness table. His honor, the mayor, will open the statement, and then you gentlemen can follow.

STATEMENT OF BENTON 0. DILLARD, MAYOR OF THE CITY OF ROANOKE, VA.; ACCOMPANIED BY VINCENT WHEELER, VICE MAYOR; JULIAN F. HIRST, CITY MANAGER; AND RUSSELL R. HENLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF ROANOKE REDEVELOPMENT AND HOUSING AUTHORITY

Mayor DILLARD. Thank you, Senator.

Senator ROBERTSON. We welcome you to the hearing room of the Banking and Currency Committee.

Mayor DILLARD. We certainly appreciate it.

Senator ROBERTSON. Now the acting chairman, the distinguished Senator from Illinois, will take over. I have got to go back to give the Treasury Department a little money to get some taxes out of you. Senator DOUGLAS. I probably will not be able to accord you the same distinguished courtesy that Virginians accord to others, but I will do my best to welcome you here very warmly, Mayor Dillard.

Mayor DILLARD. Mr. Chairman, of course, we thank our distinguished senior Senator from Virginia for his kindness. We love him down there, and we're going to do everything we can for him next time.

Mr. Chairman we have a short prepared statement that we feel is directly to the point in which we ask support of Senate bill 3146. With your permission, I would like to go through it.

Senator DOUGLAS. Yes, indeed.

Mayor DILLARD. Thank you, Senator.

As mayor of the city of Roanoke, Va., I appear here today at the direction and with the authority of the City Council of Roanoke in the interest of a proposed amendment to the Urban Development Act of 1966.

As Senator Robertson just indicated, on my for right is our vice mayor, Mr. Wheeler. To my right is Mr. Henley, executive director of our Roanoke Redevelopment Land Authority. And on my left is our city manager, Mr. Julian Hirst.

The amendment to which I speak and support would permit the city of Roanoke, through its redevelopment and housing authority, to apply the cost of our proposed civic center for Roanoke as a local grant-in-aid. The Roanoke Civic Center is proposed to be built within the Commonwealth urban renewal project, Project UR VA 7-1; and the credit for the center as would be granted by the legislative amendment would apply to this urban renewal project.

May I, by way of introduction, briefly acquaint this subcommittee with our city. Geographically, Roanoke is situated in the southwesterly portion of Virginia. We have a corporate population of slightly over 100,000, an immediate metropolitan population of ap

proximately 160,000, and serve a trading area of approximately 500,000 people.

Our city is in close proximity to the deep southwest of Virginia, to West Virginia, and the Appalachian region, all of which have received attention by the Federal Government in assistance and benefit programs. Our labor market, wholsale and retail businesses, and medical and other professional services serve and are used by people in all these large areas.

Principally, Roanoke is an industrial and transportation center. In both of these fields of enterprises, the city over recent years has experienced many changes and setbacks that have accompanied technological and employment revisions as have occurred in industries such as those on which our city was economically based.

Despite these revisions and setbacks, through strong local effort, our community has managed recoveries. Two examples of this have been the development through local, private, and governmental funds of two industrial parks of considerable size that have recovered employment for many of our people who have been victims of the industrial changes over the years.

Senator DOUGLAS. Mr. Mayor, has there been any Federal aid for those two industrial parks?

Mayor DILLARD. No, sir.

Mr. WHEELER. No, sir.

Mayor DILLARD. None whatever, Senator.

Roanoke, as many other cities of comparable size and circumstance, has been seriously concerned with the downgrading of a number of residential and commercial areas within the city. This deterioration has been the outgrowth of two conditions. One of these is the reduction in property values as has appeared within so many cities in older areas and the other has been directly related to changes in employment opportunities and availabilities to which I earlier referred.

In full recognition of these circumstances as were affecting the vitality of our city, Roanoke in 1955 was one of the earlier cities in the country to undertake an urban renewal project. This was the Commonwealth urban renewal project, Project UR VA 7-1. It involves 83.5 acres in the geographical center of the city. It was physically commenced in 1956 and represented an expenditure of $4,905,404. The area was substandard residential and through the Roanoke Redevelopment and Housing Authority was completely cleared.

Prior to the commencement of the project, it produced in local tax revenue, that which could be collected, $12,000. It now produces $25,000 annually, even with a major portion of its area going to nontaxable governmental use. Of the nontaxable use, property valued at $500,000 was sold to the Virginia Department of Highways for construction of interstate highway spur-that is, 581.

The city of Roanoke purchased and has paid for, in the amount of $500,000, land for the construction of a civic center.

This center is estimated to cost $7 million with construction expected to start in the spring of 1967.

Obviously, there is high community interest and prospective pride in the anticipation of such a facility for our area. It will be a combination auditorium-coliseum unit that will provide facilities for cultural, recreational, and educational activities for the entire southwest

and western parts of Virginia. The last facility of this type in the community was the American Legion Auditorium, privately owned, which constituted more of an arena and which was destroyed by fire in 1957.

Our city, because of its tourist accommodation facilities, is a convention city and attracts many National and State gatherings throughout a year. From a use objective there are many supporting reasons as to the area and community need for such a civic center. It will offer opportunities in the fields and endeavors of culture, education, and recreation that our people have never before known.

However, what might be termed the degree of local pride is perhaps not the direct concern to your honorable subcommittee or to the legis lation at hand. What is significant and unusual about the civic center project is its direct involvement in urban renewal. As I stated earlier, the city of Roanoke, through its own funds, purchased a portion of the Commonwealth redevelopment tract, at a cost of $500,000 for the accommodation of this center. Highway development that has been constructed and is scheduled for construction within and adjacent to the Commonwealth tract is oriented to this center.

The city has obtained approval from the Federal Government for two further urban renewal projects. One immediately adjoins the Commonwealth area. This is the Kimball project area, R-46, consisting of 78 acres of substandard residential property. It will represent an expenditure of $4,070,000. The development of this land and its resale potential is immediately involved in the anticipation of the civic center project.

The Commonwealth project and the Kimball project, plus the civic center area, are within two or three normal city blocks from the central business district of Roanoke. The third urban renewal project on which Roanoke has embarked is the Downtown East project, R-42, consisting of 13 acres of substandard commercial and transient housing properties. The expenditure for the revitalization is estimated at $4,042,000. The continued upgrading of Roanoke's central business district, of which the Downtown East project is a significant part, is also directly related to the potential which the civic center offers. There is attached to this statement a brief financial summary of these three urban renewal projects.

(The summary referred to follows:)

URBAN RENEWAL PROJECTS-ROANOKE, VA.

Mayor DILLARD. It is our feeling, and we respectfully submit, this expression to your subcommittee, that the civic center as proposed for Roanoke is tied hand in hand with these three urban renewal projects and with further prospective development under the same Federal programs.

We further submit that the city's expenditure toward this civic center is direct expenditure in behalf of these urban renewal programs and their successful accomplishment.

It is understood that the Federal Government would permit, if the bill amendment were approved, that the credit could apply to one or more urban renewal programs in order of their accomplishment. It is considered that the Federal participation in the Commonwealth project would not be increased by the passage of this proposed section of the act.

It is additionally our belief the civic center represents a direct contribution to the development of the three urban renewal programs in all respects except financially from a legal standpoint. It can be and is justifiable financially.

To that end and purpose, we respectfully urge that anticipated outlay of the city of Roanoke for the civic center be permitted to be counted as a grant-in-aid toward urban renewal project VA 7-1 and subsequently Kimball project area, R-46, and Downtown East project, R-46. This would be facilitated by a bill amendment classifying the Roanoke Civic Center as a noncash grant-in-aid to such project for other federally assisted urban renewal projects undertaken in Roanoke, Va.

The time and courtesy of this subcommittee are respectfully acknowledged and appreciated.

Senator DOUGLAS. Thank you very much, Mayor.

Do I understand that the total expenditure on the three urban renewal projects, including local grants-in-aid, amounts to approximately $13 million?

Mayor DILLARD. Yes, sir. That is attached.

Senator DOUGLAS. And that you expect to net or have netted from land sales a little over $4 million?

Mayor DILLARD. Yes, sir. That is correct, Senator.

Senator DOUGLAS. Leaving a net project cost of about $8,860,000? Mayor DILLARD. Yes, sir.

Senator DOUGLAS. Now, then, the city's share of this would normally be around $2.8 million?

Mayor DILLARD. Yes, sir. That is correct.

Senator DOUGLAS. Do I understand that you are asking, therefore, that the expenditures which you make upon this coliseum and civic center would be credited toward that $2.8 million?

Mayor DILLARD. Yes, sir. That is true.

Mr. HIRST. Yes, sir.

Senator DOUGLAS. How much have you paid in already on your share on these projects?

Mr. HENLEY. $1,305,404.

Senator DOUGLAS. That has been your local contribution?

Mr. HENLEY. Yes, sir. This is the current Commonwealth project, which is actively being closed out. In other words, it has gone all the way through, and we are getting ready to close it out.