depots; procurement of efficient and economical transportation services from surface carriers; efficient and economical operation of Air Force motor vehicles. These plans and policies concern current and proposed operations during peace, mobilization, and war. Their soundness materially affects the economic and efficient operation of all Air Force units. Major commands particularly affected are Air Materiel Command in providing logistical support of the Air Force, Military Air Transport Service in providing airlift for Department of Defense, and Continental Air Command and Strategic Air Command in the worldwide development of Air Force troops.

B. Coordination and contacts

Represents the Department of Defense and the Department of the Air Force before the Civil Aeronautics Board, Interstate Commerce Commission, and other regulatory bodies in all Air Force matters involving rate and classification proceedings relating to commercial transportation by all modes. Functions as the Air Force member on all joint boards and committees such as Military Traffic Service established by the Department of Defense and concerned with effective traffic management policies. As a member of the Joint Military Transportation Committee under the Joint Chiefs of Staff, coordinates in the establishment of adequate and feasible transportation programs to support war and mobilization plans. Coordinates with other military, governmental, and civilian agencies on any aspects of transportation as the need arises, such as representatives of the Air Force in MSTS space allocations committee meetings, and liaison with major Zone of Interior water ports of embarkation.

C. Programs directed

Directs and monitors the various transportation programs of the Air Force. Determines and defends transportation budgetary requirements. Establishes Air Force requirements for air and ocean shipping transportation. Directs the Air Force utility boat program. Directs and supervises the railway facility and equipment program in the Air Force. Directs the air traffic coordination program at aerial ports of embarkation in the Zone of Interior.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Is that man comparable to the Chief of Transportation in the Army?

General WETZEL. I don't know whether he is or not. We have no basic water or rail transportation service that we run. Of course,

we do run the Air Transport Service, MATS.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Now, is he involved in the transportation of

persons and things?

General WETZEL. Persons and things.

Mr. GAVIN. Persons and what?

Mr. BLANDFORD. And things.

General WETZEL. Things.

Mr. BLANDFORD. He doesn't come under your Comptroller, which surprises me.

General WETZEL. He does not come under the Comptroller.

Mr. BLANDFORD. It would seem logical that he would be dealing more with the Comptroller than he would with anybody else. He is dealing with dollars, bills of lading, freight records, and that sort of thing.

I suppose it is 6 in 1 and half a dozen in the other, actually.
General WETZEL. Yes, sir.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Because he is dealing with vast shipment of articles to the various plants and from the plants to wherever they are going.

General WETZEL. I don't believe that transportation function has ever been in anything but the G-4 area. It is part of the whole problem.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Well

General WETZEL. Getting the supplies there.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is a good point. Is your Deputy Chief of Staff, Materiel, the equivalent to the G-4 in the Army?

General WETZEL. Yes; he is.

Mr. ARENDS. General, he is the fellow that transports all the boys in the service, but he is not the one who makes the determination of where the boys are going; is that right?

General WETZEL. That is correct.

Mr. ARENDS. Something ought to be done about the matter of the way they shunt these boys back and forth around the country. Maybe it is not so bad in the Air Force, but it is in the Army.

General WETZEL. It is pretty bad in the Air Force.

Mr. ARENDS. You would think some of the boys had joined a travel agency.

General WETZEL. It is pretty bad in the Air Force. It is not because we wanted to do it or we made a mistake, but we did it because it was necessary.

Mr. ARENDS. Off the record.

(Statement off the record.)

Mr. ARENDS. I think the whole matter of transportation and the way they move these boys around can be improved. It can save us a lot of money if we pay more attention to it.

Mr. RIVERS. Of course, they move the families around in all the services, with all of their equipment, everything from the kitchen sink to the bathroom stopper, or whatever they call it.

General WETZEL. We don't move the sinks, Mr. Rivers.

Mr. RIVERS. You move everything else; you are not any better than the rest of them. Just watch these enormous vans in all the services. We have been complaining about it in Congress for years. They send them to the west coast, and bring them to the east coast, and send them to the south coast and to the north borders. It is a very expensive thing.

Mr. BLANDFORD. There is a limitation now, Mr. Rivers, in the appropriation act of 8,000 pounds, I think.

General WETZEL. 9,000 pounds is the maximum. But we hope sincerely that that will be lifted.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Of course that developed from an abuse by service. personnel overseas. That was the reason for that. The troopsAir Force, Navy, Army-and if the Marine Corps had been there they would have been doing the same thing-were trying to ship back half of Germany when they left Europe and some of those shipments for some people hit as high as 40,000 pounds.

General WETZEL. Well, that was way over anybody's allowance

at that time.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Well, it hit it, just the same, so I am told.

I am not going to mention names. But the point is: I think that was the reason why, and it is unfortunate that the people in this country, the people in this modern day and age who think of a freezer as part of their household equipment have to be penalized. I feel sorry for an officer who owns a piano. He is just going to have to sell it, if he has any family at all.

Mr. ARENDS. You say that limitation is interfering now?

General WETZEL. Oh, I do, because one of our prime objectives is to have airmen stay in the Air Force. They join the Air Force, we train them in their 4 years, and the objective is to get them to reen

list. There is where you really save money. Because if he doesn't reenlist, you must go out and recruit a new one which means that you have spent all of that money on him for very little return. Oh, the objective is to get the man that we have, that is trained, to stay on. Now, some of the things that influence that decision to reenlist are these things we have just been mentioning. We get him; he has a family; he has some household equipment. It becomes necessary to move him, but we don't give him the allowance to move his stuff.

Mr. ARENDS. How do you save so much money, General? In the instance of this boy, who you say you want to get to reenlist, this young officer

General WETZEL. This airman.

Mr. ARENDS. Then you get the fellow who is in his early 50's and an experienced officer and you throw him out

General WETZEL. I am talking about an airman.

Mr. ARENDS. Airman.

General WETZEL. Yes, airmen are enlisted personnel.

Mr. RIVERS. Who determines the number of times he will move the length and breadth of the continental United States-I am not only talking about the airmen, but I am talking about everything.

General WETZEL. Officers, too.

Mr. RIVERS. There isn't any slide rule, there isn't any regulation that prohibits it. It is left to the determination of the whims of some individual or individuals, throughout the service.

General WETZEL. Well, it is not left to the whim, sir.

Mr. RIVERS. Well

General WETZEL. It is a fully studied proposition.

Mr. GAVIN. There are some whims.

Mr. RIVERS. I have been on this committee for 13 years, and I don't know if you have any better defendants in the Congress than the fellows on this committee. You don't hear us shooting off our mouths.

General WETZEL. I am sure that is correct, and I want you to know we appreciate that.

Mr. RIVERS. We defend you all the time on the floor from people who don't know what they are talking about.

General WETZEL. Right, sir.

Mr. RIVERS. I hope from the influence that you have from your billet that you will tell-the Congress is cognizant of these things. As far as this 8,000 pounds is concerned, it may be necessary to raise it. I believe it is important.

General WETZEL. Yes, sir; because to train a new one cost you $14,000.

Mr. RIVERS. I know all about that, and I agree with you. But this moving is a colossal item.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Mr. Rivers, I might mention that the last time I checked the figures on transportation I was amazed-this was prior to Korea, and so it is probably higher now. I checked this with Mr. McNeil. The Air Force personnel, the total personnel in the Air Force, had moved 131 percent, the personnel of the Air Force in 1 year. That meant that there were 1.3 moves for every man in the Air Force, in a fiscal year.

Now, one of the reasons for that, General, I think, is in your training program of new people. Now, that goes back to the reason why you

want to encourage reenlistment. But likewise, it also involves this problem. I don't know how you train these cadets. But I suspect that a cadet who finishes aviation cadet training, then goes to another place for gunnery, perhaps goes some place else for navigation-it is just a very naive conclusion on my part, but if one station could take a man and give him preflight training, flight training, gunnery, and navigation you would save hundreds of millions of dollars.

General WETZEL. Oh, no, you are so very wrong; because you save your money if you concentrate on one station, one type aircraft, one type supply, and of course any station is limited to the number of aircraft that you can operate on it. That is just built into the problem. Mr. BLANDFORD. Do you know how much money is involved in transportation of people in the Air Force?

General WETZEL. I have seen it; yes, sir.

Mr. BLANDFORD. It is a staggering amount.

Mr. GAVIN. How much is it, do you know, if it is a staggering amount? How much?

Mr. BLANDFORD. I think in the neighborhood of $300 million, Mr. Gavin, if I am not mistaken.

General WETZEL. It is a lot of money. But believe me, from the personnel standpoint, and for the very reasons that we have mentioned, it is absolutely necessary our sole purpose is to get the quality of the Air Force up. We know that when a man moves and he thinks he doesn't have to and he doesn't understand it, it doesn't help us in getting him to stay on. So every possible effort is made to confine moves to those required.

Now, many moves are required. They are just built into the problem. If you are going to fight a war in Korea, and we are going to have personnel in Europe, people have to go there. If you are going to activate new stations, new wings for instance, down at Charleston, people will have to move to Charleston.

Mr. RIVERS. They will come to Charleston without the Air Force. O They come there when they want to get a chance to come to heaven. General WETZEL. Yes, sir. Unfortunately, we just can't take the brandnew people that come out of school and fill Charleston with brandnew people. We have to get some experience there. And you can't take that all from one place.

Mr. RIVERS. Let me ask you something

General WETZEL. So it is a complicated problem.

Mr. RIVERS. But knowing what you know now-and I am serious about this.

General WETZEL. Yes, sir.

Mr. RIVERS. Knowing what you do now, do you think the experiment of sending so many families to Europe and back has borne the dividends that you had expected, taking the overall situation and the inconveniences in housing and what not?

Now, I have been there on 2 or 3 occasions, and go on these transports.

General WETZEL. I can give you my personal opinion, and I gather that is what you ask for.

Mr. RIVERS. You can leave it off the record, if you want to.

General WETZEL. Yes, please.

Mr. RIVERS. Let it go off the record.

(Statement off the record.)

26066-53-No. 49-29

Mr. ARENDS. Let's get back on the record. Mr. Blandford, go ahead.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Director of Industrial Resources.

Mr. GAVIN. Mr. Chairman, I have one further question at that particular point.

Mr. ARENDS. All right. You want it off the record?

Mr. GAVIN. No; on the record.

When we were in Okinawa and Guam, and this is directed primarily at the Army, we found that the Air Force and the Navy had an 18month tour of duty, while the Army has 24 months, and the boys were disturbed, greatly disturbed, about that situation, and rightfully

so.

They were emotionally and mentally upset. There was nothing to do, no place to go, and they felt that an injustice was being done them by the Army, that they would be compelled to serve 24 months in those particular spots while the Air Force and the Navy had 18 months.

Now, I don't know whether the general can tell me any particular reason, or if there is anybody from the Army I would like to have them give me an explanation on that also. It is hot, sticky, humid climate. There is nothing for them to do. There is no place for them to go. I went down and talked at the dispensary, and he said that he had 1 or 2 cases every day of mental upsets because of their frustrated position on those islands. I think that they, all three services, should be on an alike and equal basis.

Mr. ARENDS. Let me suggest, Mr. Gavin, that we bear that question in mind and when the Army comes up we will ask them, because as you say, they have the 24 months.

General LEE. Mr. Chairman, can I interpose one statement?
Mr. ARENDS. Yes; go ahead."

General LEE. There is a subcommittee today set up by the Department of Defense, a subcommittee of military officers of the various services, studying right now the tours of overseas duty for all personnel, with a hope that there could be some kind of readjustment.

How that will come out-it will vary, it will still have to vary— but this board was set up by Mrs. Rosenberg before she left office. Mr. GAVIN. Who is in charge of it, do you know, General? General LEE. I don't know who the chairman is; no, sir.

Mr. GAVIN. Can you find out and let me know?

General LEE. Yes, sir. Maybe someone here knows.

Mr. GOODE. Dr. Hanna.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Dr. Hanna, who is the Assistant Secretary for Manpower.

Mr. RIVERS. Hanna took Rosenberg's place.

General LEE. A captain Martin, Navy, is the service chairman of this subcommittee.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Director of Industrial Resources, General.
Mr. ARENDS. All right, Mr. Blandford. Where are you?

Mr. BLANDFORD. Bottom of page 2, Director of Industrial Re

sources.

We ran into that in the Navy several times, where they have so many people involved in industrial resources, which is presumably a problem for the Munitions Board.