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Mr. BLANDFORD. Do you have any figures available on the amount of passengers carried by the Air Force compared to the amount of passengers carried by the Navy? Do you happen to have anything like that?

General WETZEL. I am quite sure we do not. By the Air Force you don't just mean MATS?

Mr. BLANDFORD. The number of hours flown by the Air Force are considerably greater than the number of hours flown by the Navy. I am trying to justify these two positions on the basis of the activities of the Air Force in relationship to flying in comparison with the Navy where they have a captain doing this sort of work.

General LEE. I don't know the figures, but I do not think we should forget we are also talking about a man who investigates combat aircraft, too. We are not talking just about the inspection of safety of passengers as such in passenger aircraft. This man's responsibilities go way over into the field of the safety of our combat aircraft which is just as important as the safety of aircraft to serve passengers.

General WETZEL. You get into that when you talk about the director of technical inspection.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Yes.
General WETZEL. That is his responsibility.
Mr. BLANDFORD. When he is within this deputy office?
General WETZEL. Correct.

General LEE. I was afraid counsel was thinking he didn't cover that area.

Mr. BLANDFORD. I think it would be rather difficult to actually make a hard and fast comparison with the Navy, particularly on their combat aircraft. A good deal of that is done by their Bureau of Aeronautics plus some of the materiel people. We will get into that later to see how many people are involved in this business of making sure the combat aircraft or any aircraft are technically sound.

The Office of the Judge Advocate General. If I am not mistaken that is occupied by a permanent major general by law but the law is silent with respect to Assistant Judge Advocate Generals. Far be it from me to get into an argument with the American Bar Association, but it has intrigued me that the Air Force has a major general and three brigadier generals who are assistant Judge Advocate Generals. The Army has the similar setup with a major general, and I think by law they have three assistant Judge Advocate Generals, and how the American Bar Association has kept the Navy from, or has not been able to persuade the Navy, to have more than one officer in their Judge Advocate General's office, I don't know. They have only one flag officer there.

Mr. Gavin. Are you trying to encourage them?
Mr. BLANDFORD. I don't think they need encouragement.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. These assistant Judge Advocate Generals sit on boards or do they actually perform as an assistant?

Mr. BLANDFORD. As I understand it, these titles are a little misleading at this point. Two of these brigadier generals have now left Washington.

General WETZEL. That is true.

Mr. BLANDFORD. And have become judge advocates for either the entire Far Eastern Command or the European Command.

General WETZEL. Both. General Johnson, who is listed on your page, is the Assistant Judge Advocate General for Civil Law. He has been reassigned to the Far East Air Forces and he will be the judge advocate there on that staff.

ASSISTANT JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL (Civil Law) Supervises the preparation of and passes on the propriety of all legal opinions prepared by the patents; litigation, tax, and contracts; claims; legislative drafting; military affairs and legal assistance; and special assignments branches of the Office of The Judge Advocate General, USAF.

Exercises supervisory and operational responsibility over proceedings before civil courts in which the USAF is an interested party, concerning the legal matters under the jurisdiction of the mentioned branches.

Exercises supervisory and operation responsibility over tax negotiations with Federal, State, and local officials concerning the USĂF.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. Will that vacancy be filled?
General WETZEL. By a colonel and not a general officer.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Is he more than one-half?
General WETZEL. One-half?
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Just civil law?

General WETZEL. Yes. General Kuhfeld will remain in Washington. He is Assistant Judge Advocate General for Military Justice.

Assistant JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL (MILITARY JUSTICE) Exercises supervisory and operational responsibility for the rendition of the legal opinions of the boards of review and the Military Justice Branch on courtmartial cases, and executes formal concurrence on each holding of legal sufficiency as required by law and Executive order.

Exercises general administrative control over the personnel and the activities of the boards of review and the Military Justice Branch, and has the responsibility for the general supervision of the administration of military justice within all echelons of the United States Air Force.

General Kidner, the fourth man, is en route to the United States Air Forces in Europe where he will be the judge advocate. ASSISTANT JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL, APPELLATE SERVICES AND TRAINING

Exercises general supervision over Appellate Government Counsel Division; Appellate Defense Counsel Division; Educational Division; New Trial Division; and Clemency and Habeas Corpus. Maintained liaison with United States Court of Military Appeals.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Just an interesting

General WETZEL. His position will be filled by a colonel. There are four judge advocate generals in the Air Force.

Mr. BLANDFORD. It compares exactly with the Army, and the Navy has only one flag officer. That is the point I am making.

General WETZEL. And he is also the legislative and liaison.
Mr. BLANDFORD. He is a busy man.
General WETZEL. Yes, he is a busy man.

Mr. BLANDFORD. In defense of the Air Force and Army, it might be pointed out the Navy has some civilians who are CAF-16's. They are drawing comparable pay, we will say, of a major general. If you are talking about money, I think probably it costs as much to run the Judge Advocate's Office in the Navy as it does in the Air Force and Army. They have done some things with civilians that you people have used specialists in the military service for.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. At this point, may I ask the general about the number of general officers you have assigned to sit on boards under Military Code of Justice? The Navy has 3 or 4 admirals, if my memory is correct. I think they are retired admirals called back to active duty:

Do you have generals sitting on these boards as the Navy does admirals?

General WETZEL. I am sorry, sir. I cannot answer that.

Mr. BLANDFORD. I think I can answer it according to our listing here, that you have no general officers assigned as the Navy has.

General WETZEL. None.

Mr. BLANDFORD. I think that is the answer you want. We find the Navy with six flag officers, retired flag officers, sitting as presidents of provost courts-martial. You have only one retired general on active duty. Is that right?

General WETZEL. More than that now. I think I told you that by June we would have only one retired general on active duty. There are four now.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. Who are they?

General WETZEL. There are four retired general officers on active duty. One is General Harmon, lieutenant general. He is the Air Force representative on the United States Military Staff Committee of the U. N. He will be off by June.

General Lynch, who was retired February 28 past, works in OSD, and we agreed with them to recall him to active duty for a short period until he could train his replacement.

General Hansel, recalled for the mutual-security position he occupies in the Air Staff, a position we will cover later.

The fourth is Brig. Gen. George Goddard, who is in Europe now and we feel he is the foremost authority of aerial photography in the world. He is to assist NATO countries to assist them in procedures in aerial photography. Four now, one by June.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Your Deputy Chief of Staff, Comptroller. That is a field we floundered in the other day.

General WETZEL. You skipped the doctors.

Mr. BLANDFORD. You are authorized five permanent general officers under the Officers Personnel Act. You have eight. I am sure we will find the same thing in the Air Force that we found in the Navythat you have more colonels occupying billets of doctors than you have billets for them, but it is an inevitable situation that has arisen because of the fact doctors come in during the depression and do not in good times, and as a result those who stay on build up rank.

Is that correct, that you have a lot of colonels

Lieutenant Colonel KANE. We are still quite a bit below the requirements.

Mr. BLANDFORD. The Navy was way over in their positions occupied by captains as compared with their billets, forty-some-odd, if I am not mistaken.

General LEE. That is not the case in the Air Force.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Maybe starting out from scratch you were able to prevent such a situation from taking place.

The Deputy Chief of Staff, Comptroller. The Deputy Chief and Assistant Deputy Chief are self-explanatory, I think.

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The Director of Accounting intrigues me because that job is done by a civilian in the Navy. It just occurs to me: Isn't this a job that is more closely akin to a civilian occupation than anything else in the Air Force? We are talking about the Comptroller now and not materiel. You have here a Director of Accounting. That would mean somebody who is a C. P. A. or somebody who had a lot of experience in accounting.

Why is it necessary to detail a brigadier general? I don't knowhe is a Reserve?

General WETZEL. Yes, qualified for the assignment.

Mr. BLANDFORD. But he is qualified for retirement. He has 19 years of service. He has 1 more year to go and he will be in like Flynn. Not that there is objection to that. I don't know whether it is cheaper to hire a civilian or to have a general officer. I haven't figured that out.

You have an auditor general. There is nothing comparable to that in the Navy, nothing comparable to it in the Mairne Corps that I know of.

That is also a Reserve.

Then you have a Director of Managment and Analysis Service, a brigadier general, and the comparable billet in the Navy is occupied by a captain.

Then you have a Director of Budget, and Assistant Chief of the Navy who does that, which is comparable, and there is probably a difference of whether the Assistant Chief is upper or lower half.

Commander WHEELER. The admiral drags halfway. That is a statutory billet.

Mr. BLANDFORD. A Director of Statistical Services. That is performed by a civilian in the Navy. Why is that a military billet, General?

General WETZEL. I suppose if you could hire a civilian within the limitations imposed I would like to go back to the statement I made about the responsibility the chief has. He is not only limited to general officers but limited in the number of civilians and in their grades that he can hire. I certainly can't argue that a civilian properly qualified could handle the responsibilities of this office.

DIRECTOR OF STATISTICAL SERVICES, DCS/C
Plans and develops the integrated statistical and reporting network of the
USAF and exercises technical supervision over the operations and performance
thereof.

Provides complete statistical service to the Air Staff, including collection, compilation, analysis, and presentation of statistics in the form of recurring and special reports, analyses, and studies.

Provides centralized punch card accounting facilities for staff use.

Develops and administers such specialized activities as: USAF reports control system; USAF strength accounting systems; management and research of all accounting machine equipment used in the Air Force.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is one of the things we are going to find in these hearings, I am sure.

Mr. PATTERSON. What would be the difference in the salary paid to a major general and a civilian in this comparable position?

Mr. BLANDFORD. I would say they would be approximately the same, Mr. Patterson. A major general draws $14,400, roughly speaking

General WETZEL. I would guess that you would get off a little lighter with the major general than you would if you were able to get the comparable civilian who had the capability of doing this job.

Mr. PATTERSON. It should be kept within the Air Force family, then, as to every position you can. A civilian should not play the part in the military program where it is not absolutely necessary.

General Wetzel. You are faced with a limitation on general officers and a limitation on high-grade civilians.

Mr. BLANDFORD. The criticism, as I understand it from various sources in the Congress, is that you have military people doing jobs that civilians should be doing, and that once you commission an officer you have him with you for all intents and purposes for 30 years. When you hire a civilian you are not committed to that situation, and to carry out what the Senate Armed Services Committee went into last year, there are many positions being occupied by general officers, or by officers, that could be occupied by civilians and release that many more military men. You might take a man with a weak heart and make him Director of Statistical Services, but you cannot take a man with a weak heart and make him a wing commander.

Mr. PATTERSON. Are these people qualified to do the line work?

General WETZEL. This particular general, Major General Landon, is not a pilot.

Is that right?
General LEE. That is right.

Mr. PATTERSON. What could he be used for in the service other than what he is doing?

General WETZEL. Other positions in the Training Command, for example.

Mr. PATTERSON. Where they really need him.
General WETZEL. Where he could be used.
Mr. Gavin. What position did he occupy previous to this one?

General WETZEL. I am afraid I don't remember. He has been here since I have been in Washington.

Mr. Gavin. He has an Air Force background?
General WETZEL. Yes.

Mr. Gavin. He has been with the Air Force for many years and qualified for this position. I think I met him in Europe at one time. I don't recall what his billet was there.

Mr. Patterson. I think if an officer is needed in a particular position he should be placed there, but if the position can be filled by a civilian and that particular officer is needed in another billet for the benefit of the Air Force, or the efficiency of the Air Force, then he should be placed there and a civilian placed into the position he vacates.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is my position on it, Mr. Patterson, that the services might save themselves from a lot of criticism based upon numbers, which seems to scare everybody. In other words, when you talk about number of general officers, it is peanuts. But when you talk about numbers of people wearing stars, perhaps, if you could go out and hire civilians to do those jobs, granted it might cost more money, but that is not unusual to change something for more efficiency and have it end up costing more money.

Mr. PATTERSON. You will have to explain that to Mr. Taber in the Appropriations Committee.

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