Navy has felt that they have got to increase the grade of the personnel occupying the billet because sister services have an officer of that grade or higher occupying a comparable billet?

Admiral SмOOT. I would rather answer that this way, that if there is such a case, it will be because we find it is more convenient andyou have embarrassed me.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Well, don't answer it.

Admiral SмOOT. I would rather not answer that.

Mr. KILDAY. I don't see why that should be so embarrassing, Admiral. If you have a joint operation or a board and the other services are represented by generals, you should not be represented by a captain. You should have somebody of equal rank.

Admiral SмOOT. I am really more embarrassed in that I can't absolutely answer that question truly. I don't know, frankly. I think that from just the words that I have heard and I repeat, I think there have been occasions such as this Director of International Affairs who meets frequently with the other sister services and was a captain and found himself at disadvantage.

Mr. KILDAY. I can see that he would be at a disadvantage. Certainly, whether civilians think much of rank or not, it is a traditional thing and must be maintained. You just can't ignore it.~

Admiral SмOOT. Yes, sir.

Mr. HARDY. That is entirely true. It would be essential that there be equality of rank. The only question that arises in my opinion, is whether one service should upgrade its personnel to coincide with the higher rank of the others, or whether they should be required to come down.

Mr. KILDAY. That is right. I agree.

Mr. RIVERS. Of course, then you run right smack into my philosophy during the war. I introduced a bill to recreate the commodore. I had Admiral Horne on my side and 1 or 2 others. Forrestal used to call me "Commodore." Of course, I didn't get to first base. But it was an interesting thing, when you went into the reason for not reestablishing that commodore, because then you couldn't jump over these one-star people. Now, when you jump from a four-striper to two stars, you jump over the other fellows.

Has there ever been any thought of reestablishing the commodore as a permanent flag rank?

Admiral SMOOT. It has been talked of considerably, yes, sir.

Mr. KILDAY. Very much in 1947.

Admiral SMOOT. There is a bill every year for it.

Mr. RIVERS. Yes, sir. I think that would help you a lot in all this conversation now. They holler about you getting so many admirals. You can kind of throw off on commodores and build up commodores to about nine jillion and hold it down a little bit. I believe you would have been smart if you had reestablished that billet. Of course, you had them during the war and they drew a captain's pay, and so forth. Mr. COLE. Is there any established procedure for equalizing the rank of the officers for the various services assigned to similar duty? Admiral SмOOT. Established procedure? I think there is no established procedure that I know of.

Mr. COLE. Why shouldn't there be?
Admiral SмOOT. Sir?

Mr. COLE. Why shouldn't there be?

Admiral SMOOT. Perhaps there should. It would probably be better. But we have attempted on many occasions to get together to equalize responsibilities and ranks, particularly as it applies to the officer personnel act. We have found differences of philosophy that could not be reconciled and, consequently, it was never actually placed into effect as an agency or as an operational commitment.

Mr. COLE. I assume each service assesses the importance of the assignment and then determines the rank to go with it. To that extent, there is opportunity for a conflict of judgment between the

services.

Admiral SMOOT. That is correct, sir.

Mr. COLE. Now after the three services have expressed their judgment and have sent the man in and you find that there is a disparity in rank, then instead of your service raising the rank of his representative, it seems to me it would be encumbent on him to report that disparity to the Defense Department and have the disparity resolved by somebody other than the three services involved.

That was the purpose of the Defense Department, one of the purposes.

You have indicated that some of the ranks now held by admirals shortly after the war were held by individuals having the rank of captain. Now, to what extent has the converse of that occurred; that is, that men now are holding billets with the rank of captain which at the end of the war were held by admirals, who have been downgraded, the position has been downgraded?

Admiral SмOOT. In the several naval districts we used to have base commanders who were headed by rear admirals and are now headed by captains because the activity on the base command level does not require the experience and prestige of a rear admiral for it. I can name several districts that have had that occur.

Mr. COLE. Is it your judgment that the downgrading of positions has kept in balance, approximated the upgrading of positions? Admiral SмOOT. I think it is greater.

Mr. COLE. It is grater?

Admiral SмOOT. If you add it all up; yes, sir. I am sure it is greater, if they were all to be added up.

Mr. COLE. That is, the downgrading would be greater?

Admiral SмOOт. The downgrading would be greater, yes. It is of necessity because of the fewer numbers we have had.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Are you through, Mr. Cole?

Mr. COLE. Yes.

Mr. BLANDFORD. To refresh my own memory, how many admirals did you have on active duty at the peak of World War II?

Commander WHEELER. 483, sir, and as of July 31, 1945, 483.
Mr. BLANDFORD. You had 483 for a navy of approximately-
Commander WHEELER. Three and a quarter-

Mr. ARENDS. A little louder, please.

Commander WHEELER. Four hundred and eighty-three on the 31st of July 1945, sir, for a navy of approximately three and a quarter million.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Three and a quarter million. And you now have 289 rear admirals for 800,000?

Commander WHEELER. A little over 800,000.

Mr. RIVERS. Rear admirals?

Mr. BLANDFORD. Flag rank. This is flag rank.

Mr. RIVERS. Not rear admirals.

Commander WHEELER. No, sir.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Well, they would be commodores-Commander WHEELER. All officers above the grade of captain. Mr. RIVERS. Then would you get this, Russ: How many they could have under this act

Mr. BLANDFORD. Five hundred and thirty-eight is what they could have. I think under the Officer Personnel Act they would be legally entitled, if no one else had any restrictions on them, to go to 532, think it is, isn't that it?

Admiral SмOOT. That is about right, yes.

Mr. RIVERS. And you have 283 now?

- Mr. BLANDFORD. Two hundred and eighty-nine right now.

Mr. RIVERS. Two hundred and eighty-nine. Then they had 480 before?

Mr. BLANDFORD. Four hundred and eighty-three. - Admiral SмOOт. Yes.

Mr. BLANDFORD. What I would like to ask is this, of Commander Wheeler: If he would present to the subcommittee within the next couple of days all of your OP's, such as OP-1, and then break it down and show the number of flag officers in each of those operations, and when it breaks down to your various directors, the number of captains that you have in each of those offices.

Commander WHEELER. We can do that.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Now, Admiral, may I ask you this question for the record; would it be correct to say that up to now in the continental United States shore billets, if you had a navy of 3 million or a navy of 200,000, you would probably still need the same organizational structure in the Chief of Naval Operations office?

Admiral SMOOт. We would.

Mr. BLANDFORD. And that you probably would still need the same grade distribution in the Chief of Naval Operations office?

Admiral SмOOT. We would.

Mr. BLANDFORD. So if there was an expansion of the Navy, any tremendous expansion of the Navy, it would not necessarily be reflected in any increase in flag rank in these billets that we have discussed so far?

Admiral SмOOT. Not in these billets that we have discussed so far. It may be that in a tremendous expansion we would again have to activate the concept of commander in chief of the fleet.

Mr. BLANDFORD. With its own organizational structure?
Admiral SмOOT. With its own organization.

Mr. BLANDFORD. But that would not take the place of it. It would be superimposed above it.

Admiral SмOOT. It would be superimposed upon it.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Mr. Chairman, I think we can go into the bureaus now. Most of the bureau chiefs, I think, are self-explanatory. At least the Bureau of Personnel. You have a Deputy Chief and then we have Admiral Smoot as the Assistant Chief. That is historical.

Admiral SмOOT. It has been for a long time, particularly since the Chief of Naval Personnel wears two hats. His deputy acts for him. Mr. BLANDFORD. You mean as the Deputy Chief of Naval Operations and also as Chief of the Bureau of Naval Personnel?

Admiral SмOOT. Yes.

BLANDFORD. The Chief has always been a vice admiral?
Admiral SмOOT. Not always, no. Since he has been-

Mr. BLANDFORD. When I say has always, I mean since World War II, when you set this structure up.

Admiral SмOOT. Since this new structure has been set up, where he has the additional duty of the Vice Chief of Naval Operations for Personnel.

Mr. BLANDFORD. What

Admiral SмOOT. Deputy Chief.

Mr. BLANDFORD. What other functions does the Chief of Naval Personnel perform other than functions dealing with personnel? When you say he wears two hats, what else can he deal with besides personnel?

Admiral SMOOT. That is all, except that on the Chief of Naval Operations level, he deals with the operational plans and the basic naval establishment plans and mobilization plans which the Bureau of Personnel gets through the Chief of Naval Operations.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Didn't Admiral Jacobs do that during World War II?

Admiral SмOOT. He was the Chief of Naval Personnel and at that time CNO was organized differently.

Mr. RIVERS. Isn't his title now Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for Personnel?

Admiral SмOOT. That is correct.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is his official title?

Admiral SмOOT. That is his official title.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Which gives him the rank of vice admiral, the fact that he is Deputy Chief of Naval Operations or that he is Chief of Bureau of Personnel?

Admiral SMOOт. The fact that he is a Deputy Chief of Naval Operations.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That gives him the title of vice admiral?

Admiral SмOOT. Yes, sir.

Mr. RIVERS. We tried to get a bill through here to make all bureau chiefs vice admirals.

Mr. KILDAY. How many deputy CNO's are there?

Admiral SMOOт. Seven, sir, but not all of them are vice admirals. Only four are vice admirals.

Mr. KILDAY. And what are they?

Admiral SMOOT. Personnel, operations, air, logistics, administration, Naval Reserves

Mr. BLANDFORD. Material?

Admiral SMOOT. No. There are only six, then:

Mr. KILDAY. That is roughly the same organization as the Air Force?

Mr. BLANDFORD. They have five.

Admiral SMOOT. That is correct, there are only five. The Naval Reserve head is not a deputy. He is an assistant.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Oh, material comes under the Secretary. That is the reason there.

Admiral SMOOT. Yes.

Mr. BLANDFORD. And then the Bureau-you have a deputy chief and an assistant chief in the Bureau of Naval Personnel. Then you have a Chief of the Bureau of Aeronautics and a deputy and assistant?

Admiral SмOOT. That is the same title, the same man.

Mr. BLANDFORD. The same person. Now you have just for a matter of explanation, you have a deputy chief and an assistant chief in the Bureau of Naval Personnel, but in the Bureau of Aeronautics you have a deputy and assistant who is one and the same person.

Admiral SMOOT. But then they have an additional one, called the assistant for material and service.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Then you have a general representative of the central district, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. What is his function, Admiral, just to keep the Navy informed of what the Air Force is doing?

Admiral SMOOT. Well, the Bureau of Aeronautics, in general, divides its areas into three districts: The eastern, located in New York City; the central, located in the air command at Dayton, Ohio, and the western, in Los Angeles.

Their organizations consist of a number of field offices generally situated in or close to the manufacturing plants of major Bureau of Aeronautics contractors.

Now, these bars, Bureau of Aeronautics representatives, supervise all of the plant representatives in their respective districts and resolve all of the problems that arise in those districts.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Not the inspectors now. The inspectors don't report to them, do they?

Admiral SMOOT. No. The duty of the bars, the Bureau of Aeronautics representatives, is to supervise all plant representatives in their districts.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Well, now, I want for a moment-does the Bureau of Aeronautics have an inspector general?

Admiral SмOOт. Not as such. They don't name it that way. I think this is one bureau that varies a little different.

Mr. BLANDFORD. I am thinking about inspectors. We have seen Navy inspectors in all plants. Now, who controls the inspectors in aviation plants that are producing aircraft for the Navy and Marine Corps?

Admiral SмOOT. The Office of Naval Materiel directly controls those inspectors.

Mr. BLANDFORD. And Bureau of Aeronautics does not get into that? Admiral SMOOт. Not directly.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Then what does this general representative do? Admiral SмOOT. Well, he has the problem of procurement, production, labor, engineering, contract administration, industrial mobilization planning for that area.

Mr. BLANDFORD. There are 3 of these people and only 1 of them is a rear admiral. What about the other two; are they captains? Admiral SмOOT. They are captains.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Why is this one at Wright-Patterson a rear admiral? I mean, what is there about that job that is more important than these western and eastern districts?

Admiral SмOOT. It is the industrial center of the country, is the way it is explained for me. Purely it is more in the industrial center of the country.

Mr. KILDAY. He supervises the plant representatives; is that correct?

Admiral SMOOT. He does, of all contractors.