Admiral SMOOT. The criteria is simply that he has served sufficient time in grade to have, with attrition out at the top by promotion, death, reached a point with lineal position in that grade where the proportion of the two are equivalent.

Now, the reason for that

Mr. HARDY. In other words, at the time he gets the temporary promotion he has not served sufficient time in his permanent grade to be eligible for a permanent promotion; is that right?

Admiral SMOOт. Let me make that clear, sir:

If the Navy were reduced to a permanent career size, he would have been selected and promoted and received a permanent promotion right there. But because we have additional officers in every grade who are not permanent career officers, we give him a temporary commission, to this end, that if tomorrow the emergency ceased and we were to be reduced to our permanent career size by removing all of these excess officers that we require now, we would then have in permanent grade an equitable career structure provided by law, and those officers, if necessary, serving with a temporary commission in the next higher grade, would revert to their permanent grade to produce that structure.

Now, that is necessary in order to take care of this flexibility that we need in the expanded Navy.

Mr. HARDY. I can see how this temporary promotion would help you to avoid an imposition if you had to restrict the size or the number of officers on active duty, but I can't quite understand just how, assuming a continuation of your present level-just assume that for the sake of trying to get me to understand it or help me to understand: How long does it normally take for that temporary promotion to become permanent?

Admiral SмOOT. Oh, half the time in his grade. Two years, 3 years, depending upon the expanded size of the Navy and the relation of the total number of career officers to that expanded size.

Mr. HARDY. I give up, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. KILDAY. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?

Mr. ARENDS. Don't do that.

Go ahead, Mr. Kilday.

Mr. KILDAY. I didn't want to pursue that any further, unless somebody else does.

Mr. ARENDS. Mr. Bates.

Mr. BATES. I was going to say it also depends upon his grade.
Admiral SмOOT. It is different in each grade; yes, sir.

Mr. BATES. But carrying on Mr. Hardy's comment, you say a man usually serves or does serve, in fact, the required amount of time to get a temporary promotion that is ordinarily required for a permanent before he gets that temporary promotion?

Admiral SMOOт. Yes, sir.

Mr. BATES. Isn't it also true a good many do not serve that time? Admiral SмOOT. Not now; no, sir. They get a temporary commission first.

Mr. BATES. Now, how long has that been in effect, Admiral?
Admiral SмOOT. Since 1947, sir.

In other words, we divide the officers up into two pies. That is what we do. There is one pie which is the whole Navy, all officers

on active duty. That is divided into the grade structure in accordance with law, and lesser determined numbers of each grade. Promotions annually, after the computation, occur in accordance with that particular section of the Navy, but within that there is a smaller career group. That other piece of pie is also divided up in accordance with law. So the career component of the Navy get their permanent promotions in accordance with the distribution required by law. Maybe I might make it clear if I say this:

When an officer is promoted to the next grade, and receives a temporary promotion, he has for all intents and purposes satisfied the selectivity and the fact that he can discharge those duties and a next senior officer, and his exchange of temporary to permanent commission is simply a matter of time in grade, so our structure can remain constant and equitable.

Mr. HARDY. You mean he has already served the required time in grade to be eligible?

Admiral SмOOT. He has.

Mr. BATES. That is not true in the case of a j. g., an ensign getting promoted to j. g.

Admiral SMOOT. An ensign getting promoted to j. g.

Mr. BATES. That is an exception.

Admiral SMOOT. That is done purely on time.

Mr. PATTERSON. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ARENDS. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. PATTERSON. I have been trying to follow this, Admiral, on this inactive duty situation.

For instance, now, a regular lieutenant commander in a temporary grade, and a Reserve lieutenant commander also holding a temporary grade: The lieutenant commander who is a Reserve goes on inactive duty. The moment he goes in inactive duty, he automatically goes into the next status of a permanent officer within that grade; is that correct?

Commander WHEELER. No; not necessarily, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. Well, he is still in a temporary grade when he is on inactive duty?

Commander WHEELER. That is right, sir. May I help this? May I use you as an example, please, sir?

Mr. BATES. A lot of people do, for good or bad.

Commander WHEELER. Mr. Bates has only recently been selected for promotion to the grade of commander in the Naval Reserve. When he accepts that promotion, he will be a temporary commander in the Naval Reserve. When his running mate in the Regular Navy, a career officer, who was promoted to temporary commander at the same time, becomes a permanent commander, then Mr. Bates will be notified that he is, and sent a commission as a permanent commander in the Naval Reserve.

Mr. PATTERSON. I misunderstood the admiral along the line some place here. I understood him to say that once a Reserve officer goes on the Inactive Reserve list, that he has a permanent rank in the rank that he goes out of; is that correct?

Commander WHEELER. That complicates it, sir, under the other law that Mr. Blandford spoke of.

Mr. PATTERSON. All right. Stop there just a moment, Commander. Commander WHEELER. All right.

Mr. PATTERSON. I want to ask another question.
Commander WHEELER. Yes, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. Now, assuming this lieutenant commander goes on inactive duty and a month later comes back to active duty. Commander WHEELER. Yes, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. He is a permanent officer in that particular grade. Therefore, he is senior, is he, to a regular?

Commander WHEELER. That is a problem that has worried us, and we don't know the answer too well, ourselves, and that is why we asked the Secretary and under the new Reserve bill have changed that.

But as you say, under the promotions under Public Law 188 of the 77th Congress, a Reserve officer who goes into inactive duty: his temporary status is confirmed as permanent immediately.

Mr. PATTERSON. Now, I will take as an example Captain Van Zandt. The moment he went on inactive duty as a captain-we will assume hypothetically he was on a temporary promotion.

Commander WHEELER. Yes.

Mr. PATTERSON. That promotion immediately became permanent the day he stepped on inactive duty.

Commander WHEELER. That is right.

Mr. PATTERSON. Now, if he goes back on active duty tomorrow, he automatically will pick up his seniority and extra numbers.

Commander WHEELER. No, sir; he will not pick up extra numbers. He will be a captain, but he will sort of stand still at the bottom of the captain's list until the other people march up, and when they get to the place where he fitted, he will fall in and continue to progress. He gets

Mr. PATTERSON. He becomes permanent the moment he goes on inactive duty.

Commander WHEELER. Right.

Mr. PATTERSON. The fellows who are still in the service who are regular career officers are still temporary, and he comes back to duty. Therefore he is a permanent officer within that grade. Therefore, in my estimation and in accordance with law, I think it was 188Commander WHEELER. Yes, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. Of the 77th

Commander WHEELER. Of the 77th Congress; yes, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. He automatically becomes a senior officer, and a senior officer within that grade.

Mr. BLANDFORD. No; maybe I can correct that. He doesn't become senior.

Mr. PATTERSON. He is permanent.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is "machts nicht aus." It makes no difference whether he is temporary or permanent.

If he comes back on active duty and he has a permanent Reserve commission as a commander and he goes to work for another commander who is a temporary commander, the date of rank will determine the seniority between the two, and that senior commander will be the one whose date of rank goes back furthest.

Mr. PATTERSON. There is one more move within that particular grade. Now, assume that he goes to work for the admiral. Again we are back to Mr. Van Zandt. And he is coming back as a permanent captain now, mind you.

Commander WHEELER. That is correct.

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Mr. BLANDFORD. All right.

Mr. PATTERSON. The admiral therefore looks him over and he likes the particular work Mr. Van Zandt does. He can then recommend him immediately for another promotion

Mr. BLANDFORD. No, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. Why not?

Mr. BLANDFORD. Because they don't have spot promotions.

Commander WHEELER. That is especially taken care of, sir, and the precedence

Mr. PATTERSON. Why can't it be done? He is a permanent officer within that grade.

Commander WHEELER. He is a permanent officer, but he is an officer without final standing in there, precedence in that.

Mr. PATTERSON. You are no good, Van Zandt.

Commander WHEELER. No; he is permanent captain but he stays at the foot of the captain's list until the other people with whom he ranked move up and become permanent, and then he picks up his status and will then continue to move with them.

Mr. PATTERSON. But the point I am trying to make, Commander, is this:

He is permanent. Why can't he be promoted again from that grade that he is a permanent officer in?

Commander WHEELER. The Officer Personnel Act of 1947 also specifically excludes people from further advancement on active duty in this peculiar status. Forgive me, sir.

Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, can I confuse this situation that I don't understand a little more?

Mr. ARENDS. If you can confuse it much more, go ahead.
Mr. GAVIN. You certainly have it muddied up now.

Mr. HARDY. Do I understand, Admiral, that all of this confusion that we have been talking about does not apply to the officer holding the temporary rank who came up from the enlisted rank?

Admiral SMOOT. That is correct. The officer holding the temporary rank-and let us call that revokable commission

Mr. HARDY. So that poor devil could never hold a permanent rank. Admiral SмOOT. Not under the present law, unless he transfers to one of the career opportunity channels we have open to him todayLDO

Mr. HARDY. Even though he may have served in a temporary commission for as much as half of his total service, maybe 10, 15 years, when he retires he still has to retire in the fleet reserve.

Admiral SMOOT. In the fleet reserve, but he does get his rank in the fleet reserve, sir, upon retirement.

Mr. HARDY. It doesn't do him very much good. He doesn't get the pay.

Admiral SмOOT. He gets the pay after 30 years.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is the point. Mr. Hardy, you raised a good point there. These temporary officers-these revokable officers, I think if we use that phrase we won't add too much more confusion, can't count this as commissioned officer service for purposes of retiring as an officer upon the completion of 20 years of service, 10 of which has been commissioned service.

In other words, when they go out they must revert to their enlisted status, go into the fleet reserve, say after 20 years. Then they must

stay in the fleet reserve and draw the retainer pay of the fleet reserve until they have completed 30 years of service. Then they are advanced on the retired list to the highest officer grade satisfactorily served up to June 30, 1946, and they start drawing the pay of that rank.

Is that correct?

Commander WHEELER. Those were confirmed under the 1947 act, and they may retire under such higher grade as they receive.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is a different proposition. Well, that would be true for the Navy; yes.

Mr. KILDAY. Gentlemen, we have gotten awfully far away from the billets of flag officers.

Admiral SмOOT. I brought this up merely to point out the difference between the rear admiral's status in permanent and temporary grade, sir.

There is one other point: We have admirals who are permanent rear admirals serving in higher grades, of vice admiral and admiral. Those are designations for the billet that they hold and upon removal from that billet they revert to their permanent rank, unless they go into another billet requiring that same rank.

Mr. KILDAY. But that higher rank is statutory; is it not?

Admiral SмOOT. It is statutory. It is appointive rank, confirmed by the Senate, sir.

Mr. KILDAY. Yes. I mean it is statutory. He is JAG or he is something, that requires the rank.

Admiral SмOOT. Chief of Naval Personnel, Chief of Naval Operations.

Mr. KILDAY. Yes.

Admiral SмOOT. Or he is the commander of a fleet. While he is occupying those billets he has that rank. And that is what his appointment says.

Mr. KILDAY. There is nothing new in that in the Navy?

Admiral SмOOT. No, sir.

Mr. KILDAY. In the Army, the Chief of Staff is always a major general, even though he may have been a colonel.

Admiral SмOOT. That is correct.

Mr. GAVIN. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ARENDS. Mr. Gavin.

Mr. GAVIN. I would like to direct a question to Admiral Holloway. Who selects the selection boards?

Admiral HOLLOWAY. I believe Admiral Smoot knows that better than I do. But I know only in general that the selection board is selected by the Chief of Naval Operations, the Vice Chief

Mr. GAVIN. I can't hear you, Admiral.

Admiral HOLLOWAY. The Chief of Naval Operations, the Vice Chief of Naval Operations, and the Chief of the Naval Reserve.

In consultation, the three of them look over the list of flag officers to be sure that none of them are repeaters, have served on a previous board immediately previous, note their availability, and draw up a list of nine.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. And their seniority, too.

Admiral HOLLOWAY. And the seniority; yes, sir.
Is that correct, Admiral Smoot?