Mr. TEAGUE of Texas. Mr. Commander, I would like to make a couple of comments on your statement on page 6. First, I would like to say, I am very pleased to see the importance you put on the medical program and I think the VA medical program is really the heart and soul of all VA programs. You say the principal conclusion of the committee on the hospitals was that there is a threat to the VA medical care program posed by any national health insurance plan that may be enacted into law. The next sentence is, "While it may seem premature ** *." I would like to say to you that it can be documented beyond doubt that your concern is not premature.

In fact, there is a letter in the files of this committee some place that came from the Director of the Office of Management and Budget saying that the whole VA hospital system was being considered in the national health considerations.

Ever since I came to Washington, I think the biggest enemy that our veterans programs has had has been the Bureau of the Budget, now the Office of Management and Budget. I do not necessarily blame any President. Since I have been here, I have met with all of them and I have always found a very sympathetic ear.

If it were possible to prove it, I would bet you almost anything that President Nixon did not know about the effect of the proposed changes in the rating schedule, and how it would affect disabled veterans. I will bet you he was given only one side of the two veterans' bills that he vetoed last year or he wouldn't have vetoed them, because I by no stretch of the imagination believe that President Nixon is antiveteran or against our veterans programs. There is no question he has got the toughest job in the world and he has to listen to a lot of people. It is just too bad we don't have somebody at the Bureau of the Budget to be on the veterans' side, but we haven't had since I have come here.

The other comment I would like to make that many of you people may not know is that jurisdiction over cemetery legislation and battle monuments has been placed under this committee, and this last fall the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Saylor, and I separately made a tour of the cemeteries. I went to the cemeteries in England and France, and I wish everyone could see those cemeteries of ours.

I have gone into French cemeteries, British cemeteries, German cemeteries, and our cemeteries where our men are buried are a credit to our country. Different military units were permitted to put up monuments across France, and there are many that are falling down and have no care. The weeds are growing up around them. We do need some legislation so that they can correct that.

John and I have not talked about our trip but I think we both came up with the same conclusions. We went from a cemetery down in Normandy a very short distance to a German cemetery where 25,000 Germans are buried and a colonel who is assigned to the Battle Monuments Commission made the remark that the two cemeteries proved we were the winner and they the loser of the war. Ours are beautiful with an individual white cross at each grave, well kept. In the German cemetery the crosses were dark, their men are buried en masse, and I think his statements were very true. But we do need to do something about individual problems the States have. Pennsylvania and

Missouri have some problems and one other State, I believe. We do have some work to do in that.

Thank you, Mr. Commander, I congratulate you on your statement. Mr. MATTHEWs. Thank you, Mr. Teague.

Chairman DORN. Thank you, Mr. Teague.

Mr. Commander, Chairman Teague will serve as chairman of the Subcommittee on Compensation and Pension. I know that is good news for all of you.

Mr. Commander, we have another good Texan here who has always stood by the country first and then of course the veteran. I am happy to present to you another one of your great Members from Texas, Ray Roberts.

Mr. ROBERTS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Commander. I just have one comment and that is: all Texans are proud of Joe Matthews and what he has done for the veterans and we are delighted to work with you, Joe.

Mr. MATTHEWS. Thank you.

Chairman DORN. I am going to present the Democratic members and then I am going to let my distinguished and very good friend, Don Hammerschmidt, present the Republican members.

Mr. Wolff from New York has been to Vietnam a number of times and is always dedicated to veterans and a very cooperative member of this great committee. Mr. Wolff?

Mr. WOLFF. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Commander, I want to compliment you on a very comprehensive statement and one that I want you to know has my full support. In fact, I want to see to it that before any reconstruction is done in North Vietnam or South Vietnam that these programs are initiated. I think it is about time we took care of our own first.

I would like to make two other points before I relinquish the floor, Mr. Chairman, if I have the time.

Mr. SAYLOR. No, Mr. Wolff.

Mr. WOLFF. OK; I will speak to you privately then.

Mr. MATTHEWS. Thank you,
, sir.

Chairman DORN. I am going to call on Mr. Hammerschmidt and Congressman Saylor to present the other members now. I will have to go to the Rules Committee.

Mr. HAMMERSCHMIDT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I too must go to the Rules Committee. Mr. Commander, I want to thank you for a very splendid statement and before I speak to it directly, I would like to say that we are going to miss our former chairman, "Tiger" Teague. We are going to miss our ranking member, the other distinguished Teague. They will still be on the committee along with John Saylor and Jim Haley, both of whom have always been the backbone of this committee. But I wanted to tell you of my pride in being able to serve with these two distinguished men who have been here so long serving the veterans and their organizations so well.

Mr. Commander, without going into too much detail, I want you to know that I share many of the concerns that you do, as reflected in your statements, concerns of the continuing proper care and hopefully, the improved care of our Nation's veterans.

I think your apprehension is warranted because it seems to be re

flected in the budget document and none of us seem to be able to fully comprehend what they have in mind in fiscal 1974 and fiscal 1975 and on down the road. I was, of course, pleased the President did recall the proposed revision of the schedule for rating disabilities distributed for comment by the Veterans' Administration. Many members of the committee, as you know, immediately introduced legislation to counteract that. I wrote a letter and was in touch personally with the White House to make sure that the President learned of the significant impact upon the combat disabled. I agree with Mr. Teague and doubt if the President really knew what was happening until he got back to Washington. I was glad that he rejected it. I also assure you of my support of legislation to require congressional approval before any revision of disability ratings can be promulgated. I did note your apprehension in your statement that a national health insurance plan might jeopardize the VA medical care program. I hope your fears are without foundation but I agree again with Mr. Teague that you probably have plenty of room to be apprehensive there too.

I think it might be appropriate to read from a statement by President Nixon on June 16, 1972, at the dedication of a VA hospital in Missouri and just briefly will quote. President Nixon said:

Fulfilling the Nation's obligation to its veterans is a matter of justice and national honor. Meeting their medical needs is one of our highest national priorities. To insure that they are met, I intend to maintain and reinforce the independent system of Veterans' Administration health care facilities when and as required.

I think statements like yours this morning and those that will be coming forth I am sure from the other veterans organizations are very helpful because we want to make sure that the Office of Management and Budget knows that the American Legion and the President are together on this stated policy.

I will take just a moment to recognize the members that are here from Arkansas, our commander, Bill Murphy, our adjutant, Art Cross, our former national vice commander, Claude Carpenter who is now a member of the national legislative commission. While I am on the subject of Arkansas, I would like to commend Herald Stringer who is from Arkansas and is also an Alaskan for being a great director of your national legislative commission and for having a great staff, Chuck Mattingly and Terry Wirtz. Mr. Commander and members of the Legion, if you will excuse me, I will now introduce Mr. Saylor who is one of the senior ranking Members in the Congress and certainly is the senior minority member of this committee.

It is my great pleasure to introduce to you, John Saylor from Pennsylvania.

Mr. SAYLOR. After I get through introducing the few over on my side, I am going to tell them if they talk as long as Hammerschmidt did, they are never going to get recognized again.

To my right is the other Teague from California. Mr. Teague. Mr. TEAGUE of California. Thank you, John. My compliments to the commander on his splendid statement. I welcome my fellow comrades from California who are here. It looks like I have been fired after all those years I have worked so closely with my cousin, Olin. I was faced with the same dilemma as he was. I was elected ranking

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Republican on the Committee on Agriculture and some of you people are farmers and you know we face great problems there.

We are meeting every day trying to solve them and our rules say we cannot serve as either chairman or ranking member on more than one committee. Therefore, I am lucky enough to be sitting down here next to Margaret [Ms. Heckler of Massachusetts].

Mr. SAYLOR. Next is the prettiest member of our committee, Margaret Heckler.

Mrs. HECKLER. John, flattery will get you everywhere. Seriously, I want to say. Commander, that I certainly appreciated your statement. It is very thoughtful and, I think, very relevant. It is rather unfortunate that the fashion of times is that parades aren't in order. I think your comment is so true and yet so unfortunate because we do seem to express our joy in private, as we were all joyful on the return of the POW's, and yet in public we only show our discontent.

There is something wrong with that. The fact is, however, you do care and I know that you are expressing the concern of the Legion and the auxiliary. The POW's, too, will be veterans who are returning. I want to make one point only. The hospital system is, to me, the pivotal and most fundamental service that we have provided for the

veterans.

Granted, the other benefits are important, but without care, without an attempt to preserve the health of the veterans after they have been injured in miliary service, money alone will really not, in my judgment, be a just reward for patriotism that the veterans have displayed. I, too, am concerned that the hospital system is threatened today. In fact, there is no doubt of this in my mind, by virtue of the conversations I have had in my office with individuals lobbying for new systems of health insurance. They quite frankly admit that their proposals will, in their judgment, make the VA system of medical care unnecessary. That is their point of view.

You have heard a great deal about OMB, and we do have our continuing difficulties with the Budget Office. While we realize that the President is very much on our side in this question of medical care, I do think it is very appropriate for the American Legion, and for every veteran's organization, to advance the question to each proponent of a natoinal health insurance bill as to whether or not that individual will continue to vote as a Member of Congress, House or Senate, to sustain the VA hospital system.

I don't think we should wait until these bills come before the committees or the full Congress. For these questions, the time is now. Each proponent, and some have very important national ambitions, each one should be questioned as to where he or she stands in terms of VA hospital system. I suggest that we all live up to my name and heckle a little bit.

Mr. SAYLOR. The next member of this committee is Chalmers Wylie from Ohio.

Mr. WYLIE. Thank you, Mr. Saylor. I do want to commend you, commander. for your statement. I thought it was very lucid. As Congressman Helstoski said, it is not exactly the words of a shrinking violet and I am glad to see that. I don't find too much in it to quarrel about. I agree with you on the national health insurance statement

which you made on the medical care program, on the disability rating statement, and I especially agree with you on your amnesty statement. You should stick by that. Thank you very much.

Mr. SAYLOR. Mr. Bud Hillis of Indiana. Bud.

Mr. HILLIS. Thank you, Mr. Saylor. Mr. Commander, I want to commend you also on this fine statement. I find myself in total agreement with what you have come before the committee and stated this morning and I want you to know that I will do everything I can as a member of this committee in Congress to see that these things come about. Thank you.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now we come to the freshmen members on our side of the aisle. The curly headed fellow at the end is Joseph Maraziti from New Jersey. Joseph.

Mr. MARAZITI. I too would like to compliment you, Mr. Commander, and the American Legion for the very fine presentation this morning. I am in basic agreement with your legislative goals and I will support them. I too am especially pleased at the position_the Legion has taken in opposing amnesty. Our law provides for those who have conscientious objections to fighting, and we understand this, because of religious principles and there is a means and method by which these people who are conscientious objectors can serve by serving in hospitals or in other ways to help their Nation. As you so properly stated, they chose to run and as far as I am concerned, I will vigorously oppose any attempt to grant amnesty to them under any condition.

I am also pleased that you are concerned for the plight of the returning Vietnam veteran. As you have pointed out on page 13, thev return under different conditions, which all of us understand. Therefore, we must make a special effort to see that they receive the honor and benefits that all veterans deserve and along those lines, as one indication of what we are trying to do, I have introduced legislation to encourage the employment of POW's and the Vietnam veterans so that the employers who are willing to hire them receive a tax benefit. We think that this type of benefit will go a long way toward giving to the returning veteran the support and consideration he or she should have. Thank you.

Mr. SAYLOR. We have another member who has just come to our committee from South Dakota, former lieutenant governor and a World War II veteran. He was in the Army and, of course, Navy men have to appreciate that.

Mr. James Abdnor.

we

Mr. ABDNOR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commander Matthews, I too want to compliment you on your excellent presentation and tell you that I share your concern about the various issues you talked about today. For instance, I think my stand on amnesty is well known to people in South Dakota. I stated my amnesty views in the Legion paper sometime ago. I would also like to repeat what Congressman Teague said earlier, you are a great organization with a great program and a great record. I am proud to be one of your 2,700,000 members. South Dakota has an outstanding Legion group as attested to by the fact that over a dozen members are here today, led by Commander Slade. That is not too bad for a State as far away as South Dakota.