Have you the least doubt that in going through a tunnel of 600 yards at this speed the effect upon the senses would be very great indeed? I think the shock from the reverberation of sound would be very disagreeable, to say the least of it, to sensitive people.

What would you think of sending a delicate lady by a railroad of this sort?—I should not advise it.

Would you ever think of such a thing?— No; not if there were other conveyances.

Would any thing induce you to send a lady in a state of pregnancy by a locomotive-engine through one of these tunnels?-I would never think of recommending it at all; on the contráry, I should advise her not to go by it.

Would you advise a delicate person to go by a railroad where there were no tunnels; would you have the same objection to that? -No; the only objection is passing the arches, and that is momentary.

Would there be objection from the speed in going in the open air?-No, not at all; I consider it pleasant at various times. I have travelled upon the Liverpool and Manchester Railroad, and I liked that mode of travelling better, both inside and out, than by the common carriage.

Then all your objection applies to passing through those tunnels?-Yes.

On the contrary, it would be a great advantage in sending down invalids that they should perform the journey with great rapidity? Of course.

We have had it from a witness before; but do not you know that a vast number of invalids are sent from London to Brighton for their health?-Yes; a great many are sent, and a great number go voluntarily, for their health.

You have stated to us your objections, from the state of the temperature and from the sound, have you any other with respect to the gases which would be evolved from this engine; you are aware that the engine is to burn coke?-Yes, I am. I think that there would be very considerable inconvenience from the heat of the engine, independently of any gas or any deleterious atmosphere. I think that there will be experienced in these tunnels a very considerable inconvenience, from the heat being rolled rapidly over their heads, particularly to those who are in the open carriages, and where it cannot be expended in the atmosphere as in open railroads. And from the vapour which is produced by the coke?-Yes.

What is the gas produced by this coke?Principally carbonic acid gas; but I do not think that of so much consequence as the température.

Cross-examined by Mr. Wood.

Are you aware of the time in which a tun

nel of 600 yards will be traversed?—I calculate about a minute.

And, assuming it to be about a minute, you think that those consequences will arise? -I do not think the shortness is of any great consequence, because the sudden vicissitude of twenty or thirty degrees, for instance, in a minute will produce very considerable effects.

You do not think it possible that a tunnel of 600 yards could be so ventilated as to bring it to an approximation to the temperature of the general atmosphere?-I think it impossible to alter the temperature, because it must take the temperature of the parts surrounding it; the air might be changed, but whenever changed it would instantly come to the temperature of the solid parts around.

The change would be something like that of a gentleman going into a cellar for a bottle of wine?-Yes. 1 consider there would be something like ventilation by the rapid movement of the carriages, because the train must dislodge from one end or other a volume of air equal to the train itself; and therefore when the train went on there would be that volume dislodged; there would also be a slight current produced by the rapid transit of the train.

For inside passengers there is no means of obviating that matter by putting up the windows? They might put up the windows.

By submitting to a circumambient blanket round them in that tunnel they would escape the danger of catching cold?-They would escape it much more than by not doing so; but it is impossible to obviate it wholly, because it is impossible to make the carriage wholly air-tight; and if the windows are put up they will be obliged to put them down directly they get out of the tunnel again.

And when they get out of the tunnel they will be in the same temperature as they were before they entered it?—Yes.

And they may have Macintoshes, and so on, to protect them?-They cannot cover their lungs; they may, of course, protect the surface of the body, but not the lungs.

Will you be kind enough to tell me where it was you anticipated annihilation?—I did not anticipate annihilation-it was a figurative expression, of course; in passing under the arches on the different parts of the line. In going under the arches ?—Yes.

All those evils will be considerably increased by the length of the tunnels?—Yes. The longer the tunnel the more forcible all your objections?—Yes.

The principal objection is the change of temperature?—Yes; that and the reverberation of sound I consider almost the only objection.

You have been kind enough to write a book

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for invalids and others who travel on the Continent; you recommend a journey to the Swiss mountains as good for invalids?—Yes.

Considerable changes of temperature take place in the valley of Martigny and on the mountain of the Great Saint Bernard?Yes; but by that time they (invalids) have been inured to travelling.

Have you been through the Grotto Pausilipa at Naples?—Yes, I have.

The air is very warm at Naples at times ?Yes.

And this grotto is pretty nearly the tem perature of the earth, and a quarter of a mile long?-Yes.

And have you heard of any serious effects occurring there from persons passing through that tunnel?—No; they do not go through it with rapidity; the rapidity of transit makes a great difference.

My learned friend doubts it being a quarter of a mile long; is it not rather more?I am not sure of the length.

A good deal of rattling of carriages takes place there?-Yes; not so much as a train going through a tunnel.

Would you recommend persons with affections of the heart and head to travel at all, except by easy carriages?-Passive exercise, passing rapidly, would not injure them.

It would not be desirable for them even to go in a stage-coach, would it?--I consider all that passive exercise in which the muscles are not brought into action.

You think that such a person would not mind getting into a coach with four spirited horses, where they might be run away with? -They might mind it, but it would not hurt them unless they were run away with.

Do you know the Leicester and Swannington Railway?-No; I have never been on it. Or the Leeds and Selby?-No.

Do you know whether the medical men have been more numerous in Liverpool and Manchester in consequence of the accidents in passing through the tunnel there?-No.

There have been no serious effects in passing through that tunnel?-No; I do not think that there is any danger in passing through it, because the engine goes slowly.

The change of temperature is the same?No, I do not think that; it is eighty feet below the surface of the earth; I think it is a very superficial tunnel (the one next Liverpool), therefore it would be nearly the temperature of the surface of the earth.

How deep is it under the surface of the earth; I am told it is a considerable depth? -It did not strike me to be so either at the entrance or exit; it did not appear to me to be very cold.

What is the number of degrees you have given of the variation in the temperature?The temperature of a tunnel eighty feet be

low the surface of the earth must be the temperature of that part of the earth, and in this climate it is fifty-two; supposing that it is thirty-two at the freezing point in winter and seventy-two summer heat, there would be a variation of twenty degrees in each case.

In the instance I gave of the valley of St. Martigny the variation would be more than twenty degrees?-It would be forty or fifty.

Re-examined by Mr. Waddington.

Do persons go from the valley of Martigny directly up the mountain of Saint Bernard? No, they go very slowly.

Of course, the temperature decreases as you ascend?—Yes; the rapid transit through the air on a railroad carries off the heat of the body.

Then your ground of distinguishing those tunnels from that which my learned friend has asked you of the grotto of Pausilipa at Naples, is principally owing to the sudden transition and the rapidity with which they pass through them?-Yes.

The grotto at Naples is very lofty, is it not?-Yes.

As to those inconveniences being obviated by coats and cloaks, and so on, that is no reason why you would expose parties to the inconvenience which might be avoided by having an open railroad?-I think that those are the great objections which I have stated.

Dr. Anthony Todd Thomson, examined by Mr. Hill.

I am a physician in extensive practice in London, and professor of materia medica in the London University. Thirty-five years I have practised medicine. I have turned my attention to the subject of tunnels in railways that are intended for passengers, only theoretically. The difference of temperature between the interior of the tunnel and the outward air very much depends upon the depth of the tunnel or the space of earth which is above the tunnel; if that should be from sixty to eighty feet, it would make a considerable difference in the temperature, both in summer and in winter; more in winter than in summer: in winter in the interior the temperature will be higher than than that of the outward air, and in summer considerably lower. I think being suddenly plunged in this temperature by passing. through a tunnel, would be extremely injurious to persons of susceptible habits, to dyspeptics, to convalescents from disease, and to persons affected with pulmonary complaints. I would certainly not permit, as far as my influence extended, my patients to go to Brighton by a tunnel railroad; I would prefer their going on the turnpike-road in the

common way, rather than encountering tunnels. A railway without a tunnel, inasmuch as the transit, does not produce much agitation of body, and is a better transit in point of speed, I think would be advantageous. Where persons are exhausted by illness, the shorter time you can have them upon the journey the better, other things being equal.

Cross-examined by Mr. Talbot.

There is a considerable vicissitude of temperature in the tunnel, which depends upon the depth below the surface of the earth; the lower the tunnel, or the greater the space above any tunnel of moderate length (not a very short tunnel), the more will it alter the temperature. Supposing that in the middle of the tunnel it is only eighty feet below the surface, but at the two entrances of the tunnel it is near the surface of the ground, that will alter the temperature at the extremities, but not at the centre of the tunnel. There is a considerable vicissitude in the temperature of a good cellar in summer; I do not think the better the cellar the greater the vicissitude; it is questionable whether the cooler the cellar the better; it is sometimes an object; but the great advantage of a cellar is to have it of an equal temperature in winter and summer, and therefore those cellars which are in the centre of houses are the best. It would materially affect the London and Birmingham Railway if there were tunnels upon it, if invalids were intending to travel upon it, but not as that railroad is chiefly intended for mercantile people and goods. They would be healthy passengers. I think the prejudice is much smaller on account of the tunnel in their case. If a man is in very good health, I do not think that there is much risk from passing through a tunnel of 600 yards; but, taking the average of human health, I think that there is some risk. The length of passage in a tunnel of 600 yards would be about a minute; it depends upon the rate of transit. The longer the tunnel and the deeper in the ground the worse it would be. I think that a cutting so long and narrow that the rays of the sun never penetrated to the bottom of it, would be prejudicial; nearly as bad as a tunnel.

Re-examined by Mr. Hill.

A cutting, however deep, would be open to the sky, but the change of air would depend entirely upon whether there was an opening below to that cutting; if there was an entrance from the side of the hill, and that upon an inclined plane, and then an opening rising to the top of the hill, that would produce a current of air. My mind was not turned to the nature of the openings and cuttings upon a railway. I am aware

that it is proposed to make the cuttings of the railway without a tunnel at what is called two to one; that is to say, it slopes twice as fast as it rises; I did not refer to that sort of cutting, but to a well or a shaft. The cutting in the railway without a tunnel will not produce the ill effects of tunnels, or any thing like them. It is of very frequent occurrence with me to have patients who want to go to Brighton for the recovery of their health. As far as my experience goes, of late years more patients are sent from London to Brighton than to all the wateringplaces together almost; I therefore conceive a railway from London to Brighton, especially for persons going there for health, would be useful, and that it is of very great importance that there should be nothing upon this railway prejudicial to them.

Dr. Augustus Sayer, examined by Mr. Waddington.

I am a physician; I have practised in London about fifteen years, and am in the habit of sending patients to Brighton for the recovery of their health. Tuunel-travelling to Brighton being an innovation, I can only speak to it theoretically; for invalids it would be decidedly prejudicial. It would depend upon the nature of the illness or the state of the patient, whether I should advise him to travel that way; but, generally speaking, I would advise them to avoid it. The prejudicial effect arises from the transition from one state of temperature to another, and vice versa.

I have some doubt whether

the rapidity of transition would be prejudicial; but I have not sufficient experience upon that subject to form an opinion. It would be likely to produce colds and rheumatic complaints; I have never had an opportunity of travelling through a tunnel myself.

Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Merewether.

The only tunnel which I have visited is the one at Kensal Green; that is not in use.

John Propert, Esq., Surgeon, examined by Mr. Hill.

I have been a practical man in London twenty-five years; I have been practising myself twenty. I have thought a good deal upon the question of tunnels upon railroads. The result of my inquiry and reflection has been certainly not favourable with regard to passengers. I think the change of temperature which must be incurred by going through a tunnel will be unfavourable to the health of a person of delicate constitution, or suffering under disease; it would be trying to all. My attention has been directed to the passage of the steam-engine from Paddington to the City. From living in that part of the town,

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I have frequently come into contact with it, and had to follow it; the burning of coke or coal, whichever they have, was, I should say, very prejudicial to health generally; but more so when that is confined within the walls of a tunnel of a certain length. I apprehend that it would be very difficult, or impossible, to ventilate tunnels properly. I can only speak theoretically; it has been found extremely difficult, and to a certain extent all experiments of the kind have failed; a tunnel never could be made perfectly clear of noxious air, arising from the passage of the steam-carriage. If my patients asked my opinion, I should decidedly object to their travelling through a tunnel to Brighton. I think that the time is immaterial, or that it does not make any great difference; at all events, I should say the impression that might be made by half a minute or a minute might be equal in a debilitated constitution to the effect produced in half an hour; but I should think that that was enough for a debilitated constitution to receive an unfavourable impression, so far as a debilitated constitution was concerned. I have known individuals who have attended funerals, going down into the vault under the church, which is tolerably well ventilated-I have known instances in which persons have caught so severe a cold that they have lost their lives; not from the fetid atmosphere, but I should say from the change of temperature. A railroad constructed from London to Brighton without a tunnel, from the shortness of transit, the freedom from dust and from the shaking motion which it would have on the turnpike-roads, however well made, would render such a mode of conveyance very valuable for invalids and persons in an infirm state of body. I would consider a railway without a tunnel much better than the present mode of conveyance, but a railroad with a tunnel much worse. The quickness of travelling is very desirable to persons in a state of convalescence; when that can be done without the injurious effects of tunnels, in my opinion, it is desirable, but I would rather prefer any way to that by tunnels.

Cross-examined by Mr. Wood.

I do not say that the duration of time is of no consequence, but I think that a minute is certainly long enough to receive an unfavourable impression. To say that immer'sion, when coming out immediately from the water, will be found beneficial, when remaining in the water, will be injurious-is not a parallel case. I differ from Dr. Johnson,

who said that he did not at all look to the smoke of an engine; I think that it is of sufficient importance to be considered; [ speak from experience. I do not know whether the steam-carriage from Paddington

runs with coal or coke; one is equally prejudicial as the other. I have not been upon a railroad. I have never had a tunnel case.

By Mr. Taylor.-I would not recommend patients to go through a tunnel to Brighton; it would not be beneficial for the health ef delicate persons to go a considerable distance through a swampy and marshy country very liable to fogs and floods-but I should not consider that equally injurious to a tunnel. I think the smoke would produce the effluvia in a tunnel, and the damp atmosphere. I cannot say whether the most solid and dry material will produce less of that damp and unpleasant effluvia.

Richard Clewin Griffiths, Esq., examined by Mr. Waddington.

I have practised in this metropolis about twenty-four years. I frequently send inva lids to Brighton for the recovery of their health; I would certainly not send them if they had to travel by a railroad in which there were tunnels. Last year at this time I went through a tunnel between Whitstable and Canterbury, and the conductor told us to put all the blinds up, as we should experience great cold; that is worked by a stationary engine. The whole distance, which is six miles, was performed in half an hour. I was in the tunnel, I should think, three minutes; the distance is about 900 and odd yards; perhaps a few more or less. I put on my great coat, but did not button it; and we did not pull up all the blinds, and we entered the tunnel not feeling it, so that there was apparently no current of air of any consequence by which we could form a judgment that we should be inconvenienced; but when we had entered the tunnel I was obliged to button my coat and put my handkerchief round my neck, and we put up all the blinds but one; there was a tremendous current of air. The moment I got into the tunnel I felt the strongest wind that I witnessed in my life; it produced a catarrh, and the glands in the neck swelled; this inconvenience lasted about two hours. Had I been subject to any inflammatory disease in the eye, or any part exposed, it would have recurred I suppose. I should not recommend any of my patients to go through a similar tunnel, unless they were closely covered up.

Cross-examined by Mr. Goldsmid.

I did not experience a serious illness after passing through this tunnel; I cannot form an opinion as to whether the same effect would have been produced if you had been but one minute in it. We felt it to a greater extent, all the blinds not having been drawn up, but it felt also very cold with the windows up; the blind put up was either a cotton or linen blind; glass would have kept

out the cold more perfectly. The sensation of a current of air is felt going in any open steam-carriage; the sensation of the current of air is felt when you put your hand into the open air beyond the line of the carriage that is conveying you. This is the whole of my experience of tunnels. I did not hear whether any other passengers suffered severe illness; several complained of the cold for a few minutes.

Re-examined by Mr. Waddington.

My brother was with me upon this occasion; he felt very cold, as I did, but it did not produce catarrh. It was about this time last year, on an intensely hot day.

DEFEAT OF THE STEAM-CARRIAGES'

BILL.

We are glad to find that this Bill-to the iniquitous partiality of which we were the first to draw the attention of the public (see Mech. Mag. p. 199)-has, after passing the Commons, been thrown out by the Lords. On its being presented to the Upper House, it was, on the motion of the Marquis of Salisbury (who has done himself much honour by his spirited conduct in the matter) referred to a Select Committee, who, after a full investigation into the merits of the case, made the following Report:

Report from the Lords' Committee appointed to consider the Bill entitled "An Act to Repeal such portions of all acts as impose prohibitory Tolls on Steam-Carriages, and to substitute other Tolls on an equitable footing with Horse Carriages ;" and to report to the House.

Ordered to report,

That the Committee have proceeded to the examination of witnesses on the Bill referred to them, and have to report to the house, that the evidence of the principal engineers who have turned their attention to the construction of carriages propelled by steam upon the highways proves that very considerable progress has been made towards their perfection, and that they can travel with great rapidity.

The noise and smoke attendant upon their use have been very materially diminished; but it has been shown in evidence that they still have the effect of terrifying horses, and that accidents have occurred in consequence.

Much conflicting evidence has been tendered to the Committee as to the safest shape and the proper limitation of the size of vessels for generating steam to be used in these carriages. All the witnesses, however, agree that in whatever shape the boilers may be made, their size should be such as would in

case of explosion not endanger the safety of the public; and the Committee do not feel themselves at present competent to come to such a conclusion on these two important points as would enable them to recommend the necessary enactments, if it was found expedient to proceed further with the Bill.

No adequate means have yet been provided effectually to guard against the emission of sparks from the chimneys of the engines which would guard effectually against the danger arising from them, although, with proper care in the selection and preparation of fuel, it does not appear that the danger is very imminent.

It also appears by the evidence of some of the witnesses examined, that although the management of the carriages is by no means difficult when under the superintendence of an experienced conductor, yet that they require much greater skill than is necessary in the management of locomotive-engines upon railways and to find persons properly qualified might be a matter of considerable difficulty.

It is essential that the weight and size of the carriages to be employed should be regulated, so as to prevent their being made of that weight and size which might prove destructive of the roads and a serious nuisance to the public.

It appears also that the tolls intended to be imposed by the Bill are calculated upon an erroneous view of the powers of a horse. The rate of toll is calculated upon the supposition that each horse is able to draw a ton weight; whereas it is shown that a horse cannot, at a rapid pace, upon ordinary roads, draw more than half that weight.

The Committee entertain serious objections to the Bill referred to them; and they are not of opinion that these objections are coun terbalanced by the prospect of any public advantage. The evidence, on the contrary, proves that the proposed mode of conveyance can only be applied to passengers; and it appears that some experienced engineers, after a careful examination of the expenses attendant upon it, have been induced to abandon all hopes of its success as a profitable undertaking.

It is probable, therefore, that any encouragement on the part of the Legislature would only give rise to wild speculations, ruinous to those engaging in them, and to experiments dangerous to the public. The Committee, therefore, recommend that this Bill should not at present be proceeded with; at the same time, they have no doubt that the further imposition of prohibitory tolls in local acts is not a desirable mode of legislating upon such a subject.

And the Committee have directed the evidence taken before them to be reported to the House, together with the index thereto.