Senator BREWSTER. That is correct.

Dr. JOYCE. I shall certainly be happy to investigate and see what the difficulties may be.

(The material follows:)

Further inquiries have failed to reveal the basis for the individual's remarks. The record clearly confirms U.S. policy to fully support the World Meteorological Organization.

Senator BREWSTER. To the best of your knowledge, is our policy to support the WMO?

Dr. JOYCE. It certainly is, sir. Yes, sir.

Senator BREWSTER. Has this caused us any problems in international affairs?

Dr. JOYCE. Not to my knowledge, Mr. Chairman.

Senator BREWSTER. Now, speaking of problems, have our weather modification activities caused us any international problems with any of our neighbors?

Dr. JOYCE. To my knowledge they have not as of this date. I think we realize the steps that must be taken to avoid such problems, and these, of course, will be one of the things that will have to be taken into account in agreements.

Senator BREWSTER. We are both aware that cloud-seeding and associated activities have raised a storm of protest in some areas of the United States, and it is entirely possible that activities here could cause some concern in Canada or Mexico.

Dr. JOYCE. We fully understand this and appreciate it; yes, sir. Senator BREWSTER. Will you now describe for us the existing coordination and communication between Moscow and Washington in this area of endeavor and what link, communications link, we use here? Dr. JOYCE. Mr. Chairman, to my knowledge, a great deal of the interchange occurs through the WMO. There is in addition, of course, the direct line, the so-called "weather line," between Washington and Moscow which was set up and went into operation in September 1964.

This came about as a result of an agreement between Dr. Dryden, the late Deputy Administrator of NASA, and Professor Blagonravov on the Soviet side.

The line was established for the interchange of weather satellite data.

It is still in operation on the assumption that eventually satellite data will flow. As you know, the Russians to this day have not orbited weather satellites, and therefore there is no satellite data coming from Moscow.

Senator BREWSTER. Do we provide them with any satellite information?

Dr. JOYCE. We do not, Mr. Chairman.

Senator BREWSTER. Is the line used for other weather purposes? Dr. JOYCE. The line has been used for standard weather data simply to keep it in operation and to make certain it is functioning properly. Senator BREWSTER. Is it used on a working daily basis, or is it just for periodic tests?

Dr. JOYCE. As I understand it, it is on a working daily basis.

Senator BREWSTER. Is the State Department involved in the World Weather Watch?

Dr. JOYCE. We will be involved in any agreements or arrangements that are necessary to carry out the U.S. activities primarily through the WMO but not in a substantive way, of course. I think the agreement that I spoke of with New Zealand is an example of our activities in this regard.

Senator BREWSTER. Now, I have a quote here from the National Science Foundation. I would like you to comment on it. They say:

It would be highly desirable for the United States to issue a basic statement as to how it views the relationship of this new national effort to the interests, hopes, and possible apprehensions of the rest of the world.

Is any such basic paper being prepared by the State Department? Dr. JOYCE. I am not aware of such a paper at the present time. Senator BREWSTER. Well, would you direct an inquiry to the Department to see if anything is being considered?

Dr. JOYCE. I will certainly do so; yes, sir.

(The information follows:)

It seems premature to issue a statement at this time on the relationship of the program on weather and climate modification to the interests, hopes, and possible apprehensions of the rest of the world.

We are considering proposals that we might make on this subject to the Fifth Congress of the World Meteorological Organization which convenes in Geneva next year.

Steps are already being taken to exchange research information with other countries both at the scientific and the governmental level. Further efforts will be made to promote the international exchange of information relating to weather and climate modification.

Since future progress in weather and climate modification will depend in a critical way on progress in understanding the atmosphere and in extending our capability for predicting atmospheric phenomena, every possible step should be taken to encourage and further the program of the World Meteorological Organization for a World Weather Watch. This program will greatly improve our understanding of the atmosphere and our ability to predict atmospheric phenomena.

Senator BREWSTER. I thank you very much, sir. You are excused with our thanks.

Dr. JOYCE. Thank you.

Senator BREWSTER. Is Dr. Byerly here?

STATEMENT OF THEODORE C. BYERLY, ADMINISTRATOR, COOPERATIVE STATE RESEARCH SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE; ACCOMPANIED BY JACK BARROWS, FOREST SERVICE

Dr. BYERLY. Senator Brewster, accompanying me is Jack Barrows of the Forest Service, who has participated in that Service's Operation Skyfire since 1953, in case there are technical questions that require

response.

Senator BREWSTER. We are very happy to have you with us, sir.

Dr. BYERLY. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee to present the views and some of the activities. of the Department of Agriculture concerning weather modification and control.

Weather modification is of major importance to agriculture and forestry. The production of food and fiber, the protection of crops and forests, the full utilization of agricultural and forest resources,

and the well-being of rural communities are all strongly influenced by weather and climate. Any program which may result in modification of weather and climate and in turn may influence agricultural and forestry activities is of interest and concern to the Department of Agriculture.

The Department endorses the development of research programs which will advance scientific knowledge and the technology for weather and climate modification. We believe, however, that the basic objectives and purposes of S. 2916 can be obtained under existing authorities and within the framework of recent recommendations by the Interdepartmental Committee for Atmospheric Science and of existing and developing plans within the executive branch.

We plan to continue to strengthen our mission-oriented research in this field, which includes the following:

(1) Modification of lightning storms to reduce the occurrence and severity of lightning-caused forest fires.

(2) Modifications of hailstorms to reduce damage to crops and other agricultural and forestry resources.

(3) Energy-exchange processes in the earth-air interface and the modification of these processes by the management of vegetative cover on agricultural and forest lands.

(4) Biological responses to weather modification with particular emphasis on ecological monitoring and computer simulation studies to predict effects on complex ecological communities of plants and animals found in forests and on other agricultural lands.

The need for continuation and expansion of such mission-oriented research is emphasized by the recent reports of both the National Science Foundation Special Commission on Weather Modification and the National Academy of Sciences Panel on Weather and Climate Modification.

In the performance of such research the Department has a long history of cooperation with the Weather Bureau of the Department of Commerce and, more recently, the Environmental Sciences Service Administration of the Department of Commerce.

We also cooperate closely with the National Science Foundation. The program of the National Science Foundation is of direct benefit to the weather modification research being done by the Department of Agriculture.

We cooperate, too, with the Bureau of Reclamation in the Department of the Interior in its research program for increasing precipitation.

These very beneficial cooperative relationships should continue and be strengthened.

The Department of Agriculture is making significant progress in weather modification research. The major research activity has been in the modification of lightning storms to reduce the occurrence and severity of lightning-caused forest fires. This research, known as Project Skyfire, is being performed by the Northern Forest Fire Laboratory of the Forest Service at Missoula, Mont. The research is focused on the severe lightning-fire problem in western forests.

Some 10,000 lightning-caused forest fires occur annually in the United States. These fires cause millions of dollars in forest resource

damages and fire-control costs. Project Skyfire is determining whether special weather modification techniques can reduce these great losses and costs.

Although Project Skyfire is a program of very modest size, it may be one of the most definitive research activities in weather modification. This research is doing the following:

(1) Developing physical models of mountain thunderstorms.

(2) Identifying and measuring the special characteristics of fireigniting lightning strikes.

(3) Developing working hypotheses for the modification of lightning discharges through the introduction of seeding agents in cloud systems.

(4) Testing working hypotheses and basic theories of lightning, using both laboratory and field experimental methods.

(5) Developing special instrumentation and equipment for the measurement of lightning discharges and the generation of silver iodide nuclei.

(6) Developing special mathematical, statistical, and physical evaluation methods for the analyses of lightning modification through cloud seeding.

(7) Performing field experiments in the modification of lightning discharges from thunderstorms over mountainous forest areas.

While much of this work is of a pioneering nature involving heretofore unexplored fields of research, the progress is encouraging. New knowledge has been gained of the basic mechanisms of fire-igniting lightning strikes and of the action of ice-forming nuclei on cloud electrification processes.

High-output, ram-jet-type silver iodide smoke generators have been developed for use on aircraft and at ground stations. Now technology has been developed for delivering large quantities of silver iodide nuclei to thunderstorm cloud systems and for measuring and evaluating the results. Data from 3 years of cloud-seeding experiments in a specially instrumented test area show more than 30-percent reduction in cloud-to-ground lightning from treated storms.

This research is providing the essential foundation for a strengthened research effort and for the planning of larger scale experiments in lightning modification.

The second weather modification research area of major interest to the Department of Agriculture is hail suppression. In 1963, farmers in the United States purchased more than $2.8 billion of protection against hail. In 1962, farmers collected $81 million on their hail insurance. In the Plains and Mountain States, hail is an important adverse factor in the production of grain and forage crops. Production and quality of fruit and vegetable crops in many regions of the United States are influenced by hail. Entire crops can be wiped out by severe hailstorms.

The results already achieved by Project Skyfire in lightning modification provided some of the background for projected Department of Agriculture research in hail suppression. Hail is often an element in lightning storms, and some of the technology for modifying either phenomenon may involve similar approaches.

Project Skyfire scientists have found that there is a relationship between hail occurrence and frequency of lightning discharges, the

flash rate, and storm duration. More than twice as much lightning has been recorded during storms with hail than those without hail. Storms that produced the largest hailstones also produced the most lightning.

The Skyfire results suggest that if cloud seeding reduces the size and amount of hail, it may also reduce the amount of lightning produced by the storm.

For these and other reasons, the research in modification of lightning and suppression of hail has common interests. The weather modification technology for either element may call for so-called overseeding. Very high concentrations of seeding agents may be required. The concentration of silver iodide nuclei effective at -15° C. being introduced by Skyfire seeding technology into small cumulus clouds is about 3×10 per liter and in a typical thunderstorm about 5×108 per liter. These concentrations are greater than those believed needed to date in typical precipitation-increase seeding activities.

As summarized in the report of the NAS-NRC Panel on Weather and Climate Modification, "overseeding" is one of the possible approaches to hail suppression. The Department of Agriculture expects to enlarge upon its already developed technology for "overseeding" in developing experimental approaches for reduction of hail damage.

With very limited exceptions, the results of hail suppression research in the United States and in several other countries have not been conclusive. Well designed and carefully controlled hail modification experiments are needed. The Department hopes that such experiments may be performed at an early date in the Plains States or in other major agricultural areas where hail is an important factor.

Fundamental to progress in hail suppression research is better knowledge of the hailstorm itself. As in the case of lightning modification activities, there is a need for both basic and applied research in the hailstorm problem. The Department believes that the performance of its mission in this area of weather modification requires strong efforts in both types of research.

Also, as in the case of lightning research, we expect to work closely with the National Science Foundation in the overall aspects of this research program. The assistance of the Weather Bureau and the Environmental Sciences Service Administration of the Department of Commerce will be needed in the weather forecasting and some applied research aspects of the problem.

A third area of mission-oriented weather and climate modification research of particular concern to the Department of Agriculture is investigation of the energy-exchange processes in the earth-air interface. Management systems on agricultural and forest lands may have profound influences on weather and climate.

For example, the arrangement and character of agricultural crops and forest stands can influence the convective activity which is part of cloud growth processes. Also, the vegetation itself makes an input of moisture back to the atmosphere.

At the earth-air interface, a complex set of interactions occur which affect both vegetation and the atmosphere. Here is where solar energy is incorporated into plant materials and thus enters the food chain. Agricultural research is aimed at obtaining the most efficient energy