architecture of these buildings is usual, but these others are round, circular buildings. Each six floors.

Senator KENNEDY. Each has six floors?

Mr. CAINAS. Yes. And these circular buildings, there are no doors except the gate, the iron gate where they put you in that place. Senator KENNEDY. Now, how many people would be in a building? Mr. CAINAS. 1,300.

Senator KENNEDY. How many people in a room?

Mr. CAINAS. From three to five, two in beds hanging on the floor, I mean, from the wall, and the others on the floor.

Senator KENNEDY. Were the conditions crowded?

Mr. CAINAS. Terrible crowded, those cells were made for one per

son.

Senator KENNEDY. Before we get any further into the conditions of the jail, I'd be interested to know the reasons for which you were imprisoned or made a political prisoner. What were the conditions under which you were apprehended?

Mr. CAINAS. In the first place, I was invited by the government of Castro, at the time he has made a statement he made later, that he was not a Communist regime, but we knew he was. He said he wasn't before. He didn't say so, but we had every reason to believe that he

was.

So he invited the presidents of all the sugar manufacturing mills, the cattlemen, sugar plantations. I was the president of National Association of Cattlemen. I accepted the invitation, and I knew I was going to have difficulty because I didn't agree to what they asked me to put on the television transmission, that they asked me to assist in, what they called a roundtable. They expected me to agree to everything they said.

Senator KENNEDY. Is this with regard to politics, or with regard to your responsibilities as head of the cattlemen's association?

Mr. CAINAS. Both. The way they presented it, it was both. So I, when I got my opportunity, I didn't agree to what they wanted me

to agree.

Senator KENNEDY. On television you didn't agree?

Mr. CAINAS. National television. I know, I like to see you smile. Before I finished, I had in the studio the chief of the army and Castro's brother, Mr. Raul.

Senator KENNEDY. Was he smiling?

Mr. CAINAS. No, he was very angry. And also the chief of the national police, and 12 policemen. They wanted to take me from there. Senator KENNEDY. Did you want to go?

Mr. CAINAS. Of course not. But later they got after me and I did try to get into a conspiration at the time to try to overthrow them, and someone with me talked about me, and I was taken into custody, and then for 9 years, of which I spent 5. If you don't mind, I wouldn't like to say the way I got out, unless you do like to know, in private I will tell you, because there are other persons involved.

Senator KENNEDY. All right. After you were apprehended by the police, were there any judicial procedures which were gone through through prior to the time

Mr. CAINAS. Yes; what they called judicial procedure, but every time I tried to talk, suppose, with the so-called people, they said, "If

you open your mouth again I will take you back to prison and continue the case without your assistance," they wouldn't allow me to talk.

Senator KENNEDY. This was in a trial, was it; in other words, you were tried?

Mr. CAINAS. Tried, revolutionary tribunal. I want to assure you, I am not exaggerating, I am telling you strictly facts.

Senator KENNEDY. You were sent to the Isle of Pines?

Mr. CAINAS. Well, we were in prison for 11 months before the trial, and then we were sent to Isle of Pines.

Senator KENNEDY. Were there others with you at the time?

Mr. CAINAS. Yes, we were 160. Three of them were shot down, 12 or 14 were liberated, and the others were taken. My sentence reads that I was condemned because I gave money-they couldn't prove anything else. Of course, they had a reason, I agree.

Senator KENNEDY. What is your estimation of the number of political prisoners who are in Cuba today?

Mr. CAINAS. It is not easy to estimate, but I will tell you this: in Isle of Pines they couldn't have more than 8,000, they couldn't, unless they have concentration camps that no one knows about. And there are many concentration camps around the island and within Cuba, no doubt about it. We know that very well. It is the same as we knew about what you call missiles before 1961.

Senator KENNEDY. You were sentenced for 9 years. Others must have been sentenced for different terms. Does Castro let you out after your time is up?

Mr. CAINAS. My time was 9 years. I got out when I was 5.

Senator KENNEDY. Would you and the others that were with you have gotten out after their time was up? Would they release you, actually?

Mr. ČAINAS. Well, not exactly the date your time was up, they didn't. You had to work very hard, your family, somebody has to work very hard to get you out some time after your time is up.

Senator KENNEDY. Going back to the Isle of Pines prison and the conditions there, is there a shortage of food?

Mr. CAINAS. Yes. We were supposed to have a strike of hunger, we didn't eat for 5 or 6 days. Of course, we had some things, water, because all we had was soup in a tank, one of these fuel oil tanks, that's what they used for the soup. You have a can, you put it in, sometimes it is cardboard, sometimes tin. Some have spoons, some have none. Not many have clothing, except the visit day, the day of the visits. We had 8 months without a visit, in reality.

I am sorry, sir

Senator KENNEDY. That's all right.

Mr. CAINAS. When I am reminded of it I feel like this. I am sorry for the people, but nevertheless, I am glad. I didn't ask you to ask me about this, but I am glad you did, I appreciate it. I know there is not much we can do now.

A LADY. I have a brother and he will have to be 30 years in jail there, he has been 7 already.

Mr. CAINAS. Those people there are having a terrible time, they have no food, medicine, clothing, water, sometimes. Once I had to tell a judge that came to find out about things that we had 18 days without water except a little water for drinking, but the services, all running

water supposed to, was not there for 18 days, and everything that water supposed to take away was there before us. There were 200 men in each floor, and there was no water to take away what water usually takes away; I suppose you know what I mean. And you had to leave it there. And we were political prisoners, decent people, only crime was to try to stop communism in Cuba and in the continent.

Senator KENNEDY. Do you think there is any reason to hope that Mr. Castro would let political prisoners go, or leave the country?

Mr. CAINAS. Well, sir, in fact, the people he is letting go now, most of them are very old people. They know that people of military age may be used against him, he is not going to let them go just because they want to use them as military purposes, he uses them as workers. But we could use them for military workers. By "we" I mean whatever you think I mean.

Senator KENNEDY. Do you think that we ought to continue our efforts to see if it is possible to seek the release of political prisoners as well?

Mr. CAINAS. I don't think he will release them unless the way he is doing it now, except if they are paid for, like you had to pay for the others. I mean, the Bay of Pigs ones.

Senator KENNEDY. You came to this country, then, and to New Jersey?

Mr. CAINAS. Yes.

Senator KENNEDY. You became a member of the staff?

Mr. CAINAS. I am a member of the staff of Catholic Charities now. Senator KENNEDY. You help to place other Cuban refugees who come here?

Mr. CAINAS. Yes.

Senator KENNEDY. Is it difficult to place refugees now, or are people willing to help?

Mr. CAINAS. Well, the main problem is the English. A lot of people with a high background of education sometimes are underemployed because of the lack of English, sometimes they have to go to factories and some other manual jobs, but they are more willing, people with higher education are most willing to do whatever they have to do in order to support themselves like anybody else.

Senator KENNEDY. I want to thank you very much.

Mr. CAINAS. Sorry I had to feel the way I did.

Senator KENNEDY. That's all right.

Mr. Ronald Blair, you were a lawyer in Cuba, as I understand it, and also an English professor at the University of Oriente in Cuba; is that correct?

Mr. BLAIR. Yes.

Senator KENNEDY. And you arrived in this country on March 3 of this year; is that correct?

Mr. BLAIR. February.

Senator KENNEDY. And you are living in Hoboken; is that correct? Mr. BLAIR. Yes.

Senator KENNEDY. Did you come with the airlift?

Mr. BLAIR. Yes, I have been with the airlift.

Senator KENNEDY. And prior to that time were you teaching at the university?

Mr. BLAIR. I am one of the founding professors of the university, I began in 1947. Besides that, I also taught English at the Free University in Cuba, the college, from 1933 to 1965, 32 years.

Senator KENNEDY. Were you able to stay and teach at the university just prior to the time you came to this country?

Mr. BLAIR. Yes, I taught, and when this agreement was published between the Government of the United States and the representatives of the revolutionary government, well, of course, one of the conditions was that anyone who wanted to join, that is, to come over to the United States, to come over freely, and they wouldn't have to resign, and have to leave the country. As soon as I signed up I was fired immediately. Senator KENNEDY. Could you give us some insight as to what the attitude of the professors and teachers of the university with which you were associated were, and also, perhaps, the attitude of the students with regard to the regime?

Mr. BLAIR. Well, I think the restrictions, and I should say the forces which have been applied to those who did not conform to general policy of the Government, have been hardened recently. For instance, with regard to entrance requirements at the university, the students are interviewed, and if they do not agree 100 percent with the Government, or, for instance, as a case in point, I know of a young fellow who wanted to study, I think he wanted to study engineering, but it came out later he was a Catholic and that he went to church, and questions like this are asked, "Do you believe in God?" and, "Do you go to church?" And if they don't give the required answer, they are not allowed to go to the university no matter how high their academic standard.

There is also another process, the process of weeding out those who are in, that is, those who are already in, if they don't do voluntary work or if they are in any way not 100-percent supporters of the Government they are weeded out of the university. I had the case of a student of mine in the Department of English, he was in the last semester, and he had tried to get out of the country to Spain, and on account of that he was summarily expelled from the university, but this had to be carried on with the 100-percent approval of the student body. So they get the students together. The young student who was heading the board, he says, "I notice that some of you haven't raised your hands here. Everybody in this room has to raise their hands, whether you like it or not." So this boy was expelled from the university at the last semester, and 6 weeks after his expulsion he fell under the draft, and he was taken away. The work he had to do there wasn't exactly military exercises, but agricultural work, but that's only one case. There are many other cases to illustrate the process of weeding out the students they don't want in the university and screening out those who they don't want to let in. And of course, that pressure, you feel the pressure is being brought against many of the professors. Senator KENNEDY. Are any of the students being sent to the East bloc or the Soviet Union for training?

Mr. BLAIR. Well, I couldn't say whether they are or not. ProbablyI do know many students do go. I don't know, they generally go there on a voluntary basis, but I don't know if they go on compulsory

basis.

Senator KENNEDY. Are the same kind of questions asked of the professors?

Mr. BLAIR. From my personal point of view, probably because I was one of the founding professors, I wasn't asked. But pressure to do voluntary work, pressure was brought on us in this regard. We had what we call seminars, or lectures, on Marxism and Leninism, and professors were invited on a voluntary basis and were made to know that promotion and other advantages were dependent upon their attendance of the Marxist seminars.

Senator KENNEDY. What are the voluntary groups; is that just taking seminars?

Mr. BLAIR. Voluntary groups, for instance, as far as this year goes-are you referring from the point of view of the professors, or the students?

Senator KENNEDY. Well, I'd be interested in both.

Mr. BLAIR. Well, the students, this year any student who refuses to do voluntary work will lose his right as a student. He won't be able to continue studying, or he will be one of those who is weeded out.

Now, students of both sexes have to do this work.

Senator KENNEDY. What sort of work is it?

Mr. BLAIR. Well, you take, for instance, this year there is a scarcity of manual labor in the canefields, where the students have to cut cane for 6 weeks. You can just imagine living conditions, these students who have lived at home under the care and guidance of their parents, they have to live in barracks, unsanitary conditions, et cetera. And some of them can't continue to study, some of them, their parents take them there, they run the risk because they have to do it, it is really compulsory.

Senator KENNEDY. The kind of voluntary exercises that the professors have to do, what is that?

Mr. BLAIR. Well, it is more or less the same thing.

Senator KENNEDY. From your contact, since you were one of the founders of the university-did the professors feel free to talk among themselves about their reservations about the regime?

Mr. BLAIR. Well, it would have to do with those friends who they had absolute confidence in, but not the public. You are talking about the founding professors, and I think there is only one more left at the university, they have all left the university.

Senator KENNEDY. Were they permitted to leave, or did they Mr. BLAIR. Majority of them left gradually; for instance, some of them, Mexico.

Senator KENNEDY. Mr. Castro let university professors leave Cuba? Mr. BLAIR. Yes: no restrictions placed on their leaving.

Senator KENNEDY. Now, you heard some rather dramatic testimony earlier about the political prisoners in Cuba. Do you have any friends who expressed reservations about the functioning of the regime?

Mr. BLAIR. With regard, for instance, I guess you are referring to conditions in the prisons themselves?

Senator KENNEDY. Well, I was thinking whether your university associates were conscious of the fact that if they dissented from the regime, they might also be made political prisoners?

Mr. BLAIR. The thing is this, and those are conditions that everybody lives under fear, fear of something: you are afraid of saying anything; in fact, you prefer to remain at home, and even there sometimes you will be afraid that probably your neighbor might hear you speak. That's the rule, the rule of fear. Fear, the government through fear.

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