ADMINISTRATIVE RESERVE Senator DICKINSON. I also find in your allocations of this week, you have set aside for administrative reserve $24,934,000, and then you have set aside a special reserve of $25,000,000. Secretary ICKES. Increased costs. Senator DICKINSON. The special reserve is on account of the fact that you are facing increased costs all along the line? Secretary ICKES. Materials have been going up and this is to take care of any reasonable expectations or rises in material costs, of materials, and also for costs of administration. Senator DICKINSON. Have you made a breakdown anywhere of [that? Secretary ICKES. I think not. Senator DICKINSON. Would that administrative reserve by made up of or what you expect it to cover? Secretary ICKES. Well, it will cover the administrative expenses of the P.W.A. and the N.R.A. Senator ADAMS. Might I interrupt you just to make this inquiry? Senator DICKINSON. Yes, sir. NATIONAL EDUCATION Senator ADAMS. Mr. Secretary, there is a brief communication that came through from the President to the Senate with reference to a suggested appropriation for vocational education amounting to $3,144,000. Is there anything that you wish to add about that? Secretary ICKES. No; I think that that is just in line with the customary policy of the Government. In fact, I think it is a reduced appropriation, as compared with former years. I am informed that there is a slight increase there, Mr. Chairman. Senator MCKELLAR. I will ask to let that portion of the law go into the record. PURCHASE OF REAL PROPERTY Senator DICKINSON. Will you read it into the record? Senator BYRNES. Section 2 of the reforestation act authorizes the President to acquire real property by purchase, donation, condemnation, or otherwise, but the provisions of section 355 of the Revised Statutes shall not apply to any property so acquired. Senator TOWNSEND. This provision says that section 355 of the Revised Statutes shall not apply. What is section 355 of the Revised Statutes? Senator BYRNES. I do not know. Senator McKELLAR. I do not know. Senator TOWNSEND. It says by condemnation or otherwise, but the provisions of section 355 of the Revised Statutes shall not apply. Senator HAYDEN. I think that that section refers to the fact that property cannot be acquired except by prior consent of Congress. Senator ADAMS. May I make inquiry of the committee as to what hours we shall sit? It is now approaching 12 o'clock. Senator MCKELLAR. We have got to go on the floor. Senator DICKINSON. I have a half an hour here yet. I will shorten it down as much as I can. I want to make certain inquiries about some of these projects. I think it is well worth while. In the Department of the Interior, we have the Reclamation Act. BOULDER DAM Upon what theory was it concluded that Boulder Dam appropria tion should be made by a direct allocation instead of having it com in the regular way through the regular appropriations bill? Secretary ICKES. It did not come up that way. It was a question of us appropriating or stopping the work, as I understand. The appro priation had been impounded. You remember that first order that went through impounding unexpended balances. So, it was tied up. Senator DICKINSON. That is, I take it then, on account of the fact that when we organized the Public Works Administration, these construction projects were impounded. Secretary ICKES. No. They were impounded prior to that in order to furnish money for the C.C.C. camps. Senator DICKINSON. It seems to me that we had a record here showing practically all of the money from the C.C.C. camps,, or major portion of it, came from reserves held here for building in the District of Columbia. Secretary ICKES. No; it was not confined to that. They were drawn on too, but also Boulder Dam and others. Colonel WAITE. All construction work. Senator HAYDEN. Was it not true, Mr. Secretary, too, that to complete the budgetary theory that we would carry all of the Public Works operations, such as Boulder Dam, into a kind of a budget which would mean that the money would be obtained by borrowing and was not supposed to be raised by taxation in any one particular year. In other words, the impression I have is that we took the ordinary operating expenses of the Government and carried them in a formal way and then anything that was in the nature of a permanent investment of the type of public works was to be carried over in the Public Works Administration. Mr. BURLEW. And we do not get an appropriation for 1935 for that reason. PROJECTS INCLUDED Senator DICKINSON. Then, this next inquiry that I want to make is whether or not you were confined in your operations to projects that had been authorized by legislation for which Congress could or made appropriations, or did you have it in your discretion to go out and approve and allocate money to anything that you desired to? Secretary ICKES. I think that we had sufficient authority under the act, Senator. Senator DICKINSON. You consider that it was a blanket authority? Secretary ICKES. Yes, sir. ALL-AMERICAN CANAL Senator DICKINSON. And the All-American Canal: You have allocated $27,000,000 to that. Secretary ICKES. No; $6,000,000. Senator DICKINSON. Has that ever been authorized legislatively? BILL Mr. BURLEW. Yes; in the Boulder Dam or Boulder Canyon Dam Act. Senator DICKINSON. Was an appropriation ever made for it? Secretary ICKES. No. Senator DICKINSON. No appropriation was ever made for it? Senator DICKINSON. In the Boulder Canyon Act, was there any specific grant as to the amount of money that was to be used for it, or was it simply an authorization for the execution? I would be glad to have you put the wording of the act in, following this inquiry, if you please. Mrs. HUNT. The Boulder Canyon Project Act, approved December 21, 1928 (Public, No. 642, 70th Cong.), authorized the Secretary of the Interior to construct, operate, and maintain a dam and incidental works in the main stream of the Colorado River at Black Canyon or Boulder Canyon, and a main canal and appurtenant structures connecting the Laguna Dam with the Imperial and Coachella Valleys in California, the expenditures for said canal and appurtenant structures to be reimbursable as provided in the Reclamation Law (sec. 1). By section 3 there is authorized to be appropriated from time to time out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated such sums of money as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of the act, not exceeding in the aggregate $165,000,000. Congress made appropriation to carry forward the work for the fiscal year 1933, but the unexpended balances of that appropriation were impounded by Executive order in March 1933. In order to prevent the stoppage of the work, Public Works Administration allotted and transferred to the Department of the Interior, Bureau of Reclamation, the aggregate sum of $38,000,000 to finance the progress of the work to June 30, 1934. The authority for this action is National Industrial Recovery Act, title II, sections 202 and 203. Section 202 requires the Administrator, under the direction of the President, to prepare a comprehensive program of public works, which shall include among other things publicly owned instrumentalities and facilities and the development of water power. The Boulder Canyon project falls within both of these classes of projects. By section 203 (a) the Administrator of Public Works is authorized to finance any project included in the comprehensive program. Boulder Canyon was included in the comprehensive program and an allotment and transfer to finance it made as aforesaid by the Administrator with the approval of the Special Board of Public Works. The All-American Canal is a project authorized by the Boulder Canyon Project Act, and specifically by section 1 of that act. It is a project constructed under a contract between the Imperial Valley Irrigation District of California and the Secretary of the Interior as provided by the Boulder Canyon Project Act. This project has been included in the comprehensive program of public works by direction of the President, and the Administrator is authorized to finance its accomplishment in whole or in part by section 203 of title II of the Recovery Act. DEER CREEK LAKE, UTAH Senator DICKINSON. The next item, the Department of the Interior allocation, is Deer Creek, Utah Lake, $9,700,000. I would like to inquire, was that ever authorized legislatively? Mr. HUNT. No. Senator GLASS. Has that money been expended on that project? Secretary ICKES. It has been allocated, but the work has not begun yet. Senator DICKINSON. Yes, Mr. Secretary; it has been begun. Secretary ICKES. Allotment of $2,700,000 has been made but no contract has been awarded as yet,but bids will be opened July 1. Senator DICKINSON. I have got the information here following the allocations, if you want me to specifiy them, I can put in what has been expended. This is an official report to the budget for which, or a copy of which is available here in the hands of the Secretary of the Senate. GRAND COULEE DAM Now, Grand Coulee Dam bridge, and so forth, $15,000,000. Now, where is Grand Coulee Dam? And, what is the purpose of it? Secretary ICKES. On the Columbia River, Wash. Senator DICKINSON. Is reclamation involved as well? Secretary ICKES. No; not at Grand Coulee. Colonel WAITE. It is navigation and power. Secretary ICKES. Navigation and power, Colonel Waite tells me. Colonel WAITE. It can be used later for irrigation, but it is a power and navigation project now. Secretary ICKES. There is no reclamation involved there. Senator DICKINSON. Now, is that on the Columbia River? Senator DICKINSON. How far up on the Columbia River? Colonel WAITE. It is about 500 river miles above Portland, and about 75 miles nearly west of Spokane. Senator DICKINSON. Near Wenatchee. Colonel WAITE. It is above Wenatchee; nearer Spokane. Senator MCKELLAR. That is allocated to Washington on this table, on page 305 of the House hearings. Colonel WAITE. Senator, we have only allocated $15,000,000 to the Grand Coulee. Senator DICKINSON. Well, of course, you have that amount allocated in cash, and you have a total amount estimated, and the estimated additional amount is necessary to complete it. Colonel WAITE. That is right. Senator DICKINSON. Which means the obligation that you have to carry out the project. You do not show that as obligated; that is correct. Mrs. HUNT. The Grand Coulee project is one for the conservation and development of natural resources, including the control and utilization of waters, the development of water power, and the transmission of electrical energy. It is also a river and flood-control improvement and is authorized to be included in the comprehensive program of public works by title II, section 202, of the Recovery Act.. Having been so included by the Administrator under the direction of the President, the Administrator, pursuant to section 203 (a) is authorized to finance it. As the project is located upon property of the United States and is for the improvement of a navigable river, it is a Federal project, being constructed by the Reclamation Bureau under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior. By resolution of March 14, 1934, the sum of $15,000,000 was transferred to the Bureau of Reclamation to finance the construction of working quarters and facilities for engineers and other employees engaged in the preEliminary investigation and preparation of plans and specifications, to finance the construction of a bridge across the Columbia River at the dam site, and to finance the execution by contract or otherwise of such additional work as the Director of the Bureau of Reclamation may deem appropriate. CASPER-ALCOVA PROJECT Senator DICKINSON. The next is the Casper-Alcova project, $22,700,000, of which $12,000,000 has already been allocated. Has that ever been legislatively authorized by Congress? Secretary ICKES. I do not think so. Senator DICKINSON. The Casper-Alcova project. INVESTIGATION OF PROJECTS Now, I should be glad if you would give us some understanding here as to how your committee, or how you reached the decision on these matters as to whether or not they were worthy projects and whether or not the Government could spend money on them with any hope of it ever being repaid, and what the prospects were of return on these various projects. Colonel WAITE. We can make a report on that. Secretary ICKES. We can make a report on that. What we base our conclusions on, on all of these projects? Senator DICKINSON. I think it would be very important to have that. Here we have an administration of the Government that is assuming this responsibility. I think it is very necessary that we have some understanding. Secretary ICKES. We are not assuming responsibility. The responsibility was given to us. You raised the point as to whether Congress has legislated with respect to these particular projects. No. I think we had a right to assume, if Congress had chosen to |