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Mr. THOMPSON. Is there any doubt in my mind that it will outlast 60 years?

Mr. MULTER. Yes.

Mr. THOMPSON. No; I don't think it is going to collapse in 60 years, but I am wondering what its utility value will be at the end of 60 years and what rentals, if any, will be paid. I don't think anybody can predict that far ahead. Too many of us are without the gift of prophecy.

Mr. MULTER. You have seen the Bell Park project ?
Mr. THOMPSON. Yes.

Mr. MULTER. You don't think that that would stand a 50-year mortgage?

Mr. KILBURN. Well, don't you think it is a good idea to have the borrower pay off his debt as fast as he can, instead of making it as slow as he can?

Mr. THOMPSON. I am in agreement with that statement, not only for the benefit of the mortgagee, but for the mortgagor.

Mr. KILBURN. Certainly. That is what I am talking about. A fellow wants to own his own home. I don't think anybody ought to try to own a home if they are going to take 50 years to pay for it. Mr. THOMPSON. Neither do I.

Mr. MULTER. Now, let's come back to my question, please. Do you think that the Bell Park project can carry a 50-year mortgage?

Mr. THOMPSON. I think, frankly, any property can carry a 50-year mortgage, but in my opinion it is unsound and it is certainly untraditional based upon generations of mortgage experience to so extend the life of a mortgage.

Mr. MULTER. That is precisely what you and all the other lending institutions said when we came along with HOLC mortgages to be amortized over 12 to 15 years, because the tradition was to carry a 5-year mortgage and let it stand forever thereafter as an open mortgage. We are getting the same argument here. Here is a building that will certainly last for 75 to 100 years, carrying a 34-year mortgage that will be paid off in full in 34 years.

I say that kind of a project can easily carry a 50-year mortgage which will be paid off at the end of 50 years, and still have a useful life with a good rent roll at the end of the 50

years. Mr. THOMPSON. That is a debatable point. You have that opinion; I don't.

I would like to go back, Mr. Chairman, to the prepared text. Dividends are limited to 6 percent under law on this 34-year-6-month mortgage. In the development of that property, the know-how of private builders, of the FHA and State inspectors insured the finest construction.

Four other projects are in the mill, 288 units by the Amalgamated Meat Cutters, AFF, Brooklyn; 750 units for the Amalgamated Clothing Workers Union, Bronx; another 850-unit veterans' cooperative; 2,000 units in Flushing for the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, AFL.

There are many other examples of operating cooperatives financed by private sources. There is absolutely no basis for the charge that private enterprise is opposed to cooperative housing. Our opposi

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tion to this bill—this may sound repetitious—is because of the way it proposes financing.

Mr. MULTER. Mr. Lockwood came here and said this was socialistic. He is not talking of your group.

Mr. COLE. I beg your pardon. He did not say cooperative housing was socialistic.

Mr. MULTER. Collectivistic.

Mr. COLE. No; he said the method by which the Government seeks to finance it is socialistic, if you will check the record.

Mr. MULTER. The record, page 505, indicates I am quoting the witness correctly.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed.

Mr. THOMPSON. For 25 years the National Association of Real Estate Boards has conducted semiannual surveys of the market. We have just completed our fiftieth. Of a total of 428 cities reporting, I am pleased to report that in 90 percent of the cities new homes are being produced to sell at $8,000 and lower. Sixty-six percent of the cities report new homes to sell for $6,500 and less being built. In these 428 cities, a median of about 45 percent of the production of new homes was in these two price classes.

Mr. Chairman, I suggest that is a most significant indication of what is now being done to provide housing for the middle-income class of our citizens.

Mr. O'HARA. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question at this point ? The CHAIRMAN. You may.

Mr. O'HARA. I find, Mr. Thompson, on page 1 of your exhibit, entitled “Supplemental Statement of John C. Thompson," this: “Cities producing new houses for sale at $8,000 or under," and in the list I find the city of Chicago.

Upon what do you base this statement that in Chicago houses are now being produced to sell at $8,000 and under

Mr. THOMPSON. On what do I base that statement?
Mr. O'HARA. Yes, sir.

Mr. THOMPSON. I will return to what I just said, sir. The figures in which I would like to have this committee accept as an exhibit were compiled from a survey just concluded by the National Association of Real Estate Boards. I cannot personally tell you that in the city of Chicago that there is a 20-percent medium from any actual survey that I have personally made. I am offering this to give some information to this

committee, based upon current findings from reports received from Chicago and all of the other cities.

(The information referred to is as follows:)

Cities producing new houses for sale for $8,000 or less

[graphic]

Percent Percent Percent
20
50

70
20
40

60 20 30

50 75 15

90 50 30

80 25 45

70 75

75

50 80 70 65 85 75 38 70 80 75 95 100

90 100 62 90 70 40 95 75 20

Population over 500,000: Percent Percent Percent
Los Angeles

10
40

50
Population, 100,000 to
500,000:
Jacksonville, Fla.

20
40

60 Dallas, Tex":

50
25

75 Sacramento, Calif.

10

10 Oakland, Calif

30

30 Long Beach, Calif. 20

60

80 Chattanooga, Tenn.

65

65 Fort Worth, Tex.

50
20

70 Houston, Tex

15
75

90 San Antonio, Tex..

30
25

55 Richmond, Va.

80
15

95 Birmingham, Ala

20
60

80 Mobile, Ala.

50

50 Riverside, Calif.

10
30

40 San Diego, Calif.

5
35

40 Miami, Fla

15
50

65 Tampa, Fla.

30

90 Charlotte, N. C

30
30

60
Population, 50,000 to
100,000:
Little Rock, Ark.

20
70

90 San Jose, Calif.

70

70 Savannah, Ga.

50
30

80 Jackson, Miss

10
75

85
Winston-Salem, N.
C.

50
25

75 Columbus, Ga.

15
25

40 Asheville, N. C

30
60

90 Amarillo, Tex.

5

29 El Paso, Tex

5

65 Inglewood. Calif.

80 Santa Fe, N. Mex.

20

50 Modesto, Calif.

20
20

40 Whittier, Calif.

80

80 Alexandria, La

50
35

85 Huntsville, Ala

40
50

90 Fort Smith, Ark.

65
25

90 Anaheim, Calif

36
22

58 Bakersfield, Calif.

20

20 Compton, Calif.

40
10

50 Napa, Calif..

5
10

15
Population 10,000 to
50,000:
National City-Chula
Vista, Calif.

20
60

80 Pomona, Calif.

20
20

40 Redlands, Calif

5
15

20 Richmond, Calif.

35

35 Salinas, Calif.

30
40

70 Corpus Christi, Tex

5
65

70 Waco, Tex

60
25

85 Fort Lauderdale, Fla. 20

40

60 Greenville, S. C.

20
65

85 Sumter, S.C.

20
60

80 Gadsden, Ala

65
20

85 Clarksdale, Miss.

8.
72

80 Meridian, Miss

15
65

80
Southern Alameda
County, Calif.

1
20

21 Daytona Beach, Fla. 20

50

70 St. Augustine, Fla

20
50

70 Valdosta, Ga.

50
35

85 Reno, Nev

10

10 Albuquerque, N. Mex

40 40

80 Roswell, N. Mex

5
20

25 High Point, N.C.

10
60

70 Raleigh, N. C

5
70

75 Rocky Mount, N. C 10

20

30 Anderson, s. Ć

40
20

60 Florence, SC

20
40

60

25 95 75 45 90 50 90 15 10 90 50 25 35 50 90

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60

100

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Population 10,000 to 50,000-- Continued

Saratoga, N. Y
Bradford, Pa
Fairmont, W. Va.
Aurora, 111
Kankakee, 111
Battle Creek, Mich
Elyria, Ohio
Benton Harbor and

St. Joseph, Mich
Port Huron, Mich..
Appleton, Wis.
Green Bay, Wis.
Superior, Wis.
Ottumwa, Iowa
Hutchinson, Kans.
Faribault, Minn
St. Cloud, Minn.
Mitchell, S. Dak.
Sioux Falls, S. Dak.
Watertown, S. Dak
Fort Collins, Colo.
Grand Junction,

Colo.
Lewiston, Idaho
Pocatello, Idaho
Twin Falls, Idaho.
Provo, Utah
Ogden, Utah
Coos Bay, Or eg
Salem, Oreg
Vancouver Wash
Boise, Idaho.
Casper, Wyo
Boulder, Colo.
Jefferson County,

Colo
Torrington, Conn.
Middletown, Conn.
Norwich, Conn.
Coeur d'Alene,

Idaho
Champaign, Ill.
Danville, Ill.
Elgin, Ill.
La Salle, Ill
Mattoon. Ill.
Moline, ili
Rock Island, Ill.
Sterling, Ill
Anderson, Ind
Elkhart, Ind.
Frankfort, Ind.
La Porte, Ind
Michigan City, Ind.
Richmond, Ind.
Muncie, Ind
Selbyville, Ind.
Clinton, Iowa
Davenport, Iowa..
Fort Dodge, Iowa.
Keokuk, Iowa
Atchinson, Kans
Ft. Scott, Kans
Lawrence, Kans
Leavenworth, Kans..
McPherson, Kans.
Salina, Kans.
Greenfield, Mass..
Haverhill, Mass
Newburyport, Mass.
Waverly, Mo
Muskegon, Mich.
Carthage, Mo.
Wyandotte, Mich.

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Cities producing new houses for sale for $8,000 or lessContinued

COLDER AREAcon.

1

Population 100,000 to
500,000—Continued

Fall River, Mass.
Lowell, Mass.
Flint, Mich..
Kansas City, Mo
Omaha, Nebr
Camden, N.J
Westchester Coun-

ty, N. Y
Columbus, Ohio
Dayton, Ohio.
Toledo, Ohio.
Portland, Oreg
Scranton, Pa.
Providence, R. I
Oklahoma City,

Okla
Tulsa, Okla
Hartford, Conn
Worcester, Mass.
Reading, Pa
Peoria, III
Gary, Ind.
Grand Rapids, Mich.
Akron, Ohio.
Canton, Ohio.
Louisville, Ky.
Knoxville, Tenn.
Memphis, Tenn.
Kansas City, Kans
Duluth, Minn.
Minneapolis, Minn,
Seattle, Wash

Tacoma, Wash Population 50,000 to 100,000:

Lafayette, Ind.
Terre Haute, Ind.
Topeka, Kans
Brockton, Mass.
Waterloo, Iowa
Dearborn, Mich.
Lansing, Mich
Pontiac, Mich
Lincoln, Nebr.
Patterson, N.J.
Schenectady, N. Y
Syracuse, N. Y
Springfield, Ohio.
Pueblo, Colo.
Decatur, Ill
Hammond, Ind.
Waterbury, Conn.
Lewiston, Maine
Niagara Falls, N. Y.
Altoona, Pa
Harrisburg, Pa
Kalamazoo, Mich
Saginaw, Mich
Hamilton, Ohio.
Manchester, N. H.
Lancaster, Pa
Wilkes-Barre, Pa
Huntington, W. Va
Wheeling, W. Va
Madison, Wis

Racine, Wis. Population 10,000 to 50,000:

Manchester, Conn
Augusta, Maine
Melrose, Mass
Laconia, N. H
Underhill, Vt
Plainville, N. J

38788 S 588558 GBGS B888888 88877HG Duos 88% no AS388888888888888ASP

15 10

0 20

5 10 20 50 20

Cities producing new houses for sale for $8,000 or lessContinued

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90 90 25 50 50

2 60 25 80 10 90 20 100 40 60

5 80 80 25 20 60 80 50 25 50 20 75 45 100

10 100 40 80 15 80 80 48 95 60 75 100 60 45 70 75 15 30 15 80

85 40 20

0 10 40

35 40 30 20

55
40
40
60

40
50

10
30
30

70 80

Mr. O'HARA. Mr. Thompson, I can say to you that if your figures are correct and if in the city of Chicago, since I left there a few weeks ago, the cost of even small, modest houses has dropped from around

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