live, of the security of children, and of the forces for positive citizenship which I feel all of us in this room would agree upon as desirable goals for democracy.

(Mr. Patman was called from the committee room, and Mr. Hays took the chair.)

Mr. BRYANT. I particularly included what I considered to be as concise a statement of this interest-rate problem as possible, which appears to be on everybody's mind, and properly so. I would point, specially to the last section on the fact that cooperatives will have an important yardstick function. The last witness was asked in detail whether cooperatives could build more cheaply, and I think the answer is that they can actually construct more cheaply through efficiencies of construction, having materials assembled, through having over-all financing.

There is one particular instance which will be gone into later by a witness from the cooperative league, where they did make very sharp savings on cost of construction. I think we better take the time left on questions.

Mr. MULTER. I have no questions.
Mr. Hays (acting chairman). Mr. Deane.

Mr. DEANE. Usually housing cooperatives have been viewed with suspicion by many lending institutions who may have reported a loss during the 1930's. Has there been sufficient experience to give facts on the subject?

Mr. BRYANT. Yes. I think it should be very clearly distinguished as to what is a bona fide cooperative. During the 1920's the National Association of Real Estate Boards had a cooperative division with sections in over 90 cities in the United States. But these were for promoters of cooperatives, who simply built the apartments and sold them at a higher price, so that there was more water in this type of rental property than other types. During the 1930's many of these promoter cooperatives went into bankruptcy, as did a tremendous proportion of all rental properties and some private properties, so there has to be a distinction between these two types of housing cooperatives, the bona fide and the promotional. These cooperatives that have got

. under way in the last 4 years have had financing as their primary difficulty. They have had extreme difficulty in getting private financing, even where they have had many times more equity than speculative builders, and they have also had extreme difficulty in getting approval by FHA, so it is a little unfair for bankers to turn around and say that cooperatives are risky, after they have done everything they could to delay and kill these cooperatives.

Mr. DEANE. As you know, the State of New York has a tax exemption so far as cooperatives are concerned. I asked Mr. Foley yesterday if he thought that with the initiation of a national cooperative housing program would it tend to create tax-exempt programs in various States?

Mr. BRYANT. No; I do not think it would, Congressman. The people in New York have long experimented with tax exemption in an effort to get more housing built, but this present legislation, H. R. 6618, I know has been written with a view toward self-supporting, nonsubsidized projects, so there is no proposal for tax exemption or subsidy of any kind. That is purely up to a local community, and I think by and large it would not happen.

Mr. DEANE. Because of your experience and since some of us come from semirural or smaller urban areas, in what way can this program be related to the rural or small urban areas?

Mr. BRYANT. I note that Congressman Rains asked that same question, too; and I think it should be answered very definitely that the most successful cooperatives have been either in a socially homogeneous group like a union or veteran group or even a church group. Many of the more successful ones have been in small towns. I personally know of successful housing cooperatives of 7 houses, 10 houses, 20 or 30 houses because the people in them know each other as in a small town.

Mr. DEANE. Right at that particular point, Mr. Chairman, with permission of the committee, would you be able to submit for the record actual cases and places where such cooperatives have successfully been planned and initiated and are now in existence ?

Mr. BRYANT. Yes; a list could be submitted.
Mr. DEANE. I am speaking now of the small rural or smaller urban

Mr. Bryant. Yes; that could be provided. I have one here just put through by the American Legion in Blackwell, Okla., for 60 houses.

(The list above referred to is as follows:)

areas.

District of Columbia—Continued

Bannockburn Cooperators, Inc., 1129 Vermont Avenue NW., Washington 25
Group Housing Cooperative, room 614, 1129 Vermont Avenue NW.
Veterans Alaska Cooperative, 902 Twentieth Street NW.
Veterans Co-op Housing Association, Naylor Gardens, Thirtieth and Naylor

Road SE.
Florida-Belle Glade : Non-Profit Cooperative Home Building Association, G. A.

Hubbell, trustee
Georgia-Clarksville: Macedonia Cooperative Community
Illinois :
Chicago:

Chicago Cooperative Housing Society, care of Benjamin Ciani, 918 Lytle

Street
Cooperative Residences
Douglas Park Cooperative Apartments, 1641 South California Avenue,

Chicago 8
Evergreen Cooperative, Inc., 5648 Harper Avenue, Chicago 37
Frederick Douglas Cooperative Apartments, 6209 Indiana Avenue, Chi-

cago 37
Garfield Park Cooperative
Home and Community Planning Association, 1253 North La Salle Street,

Chicago 10
Lex-Lawn Cooperative Apartments, 3648 Lexington Street, Chicago 24
United Cooperative Projects, Inc., 4850 Greenwood Avenue, Chicago 15
York Center Community Cooperative, care of Jessie Ziegler, 3435 West

Van Buren Street, Chicago 24
Evanston : Gibraltar Consumers Cooperative, 2031 Dodge Avenue
Glenview : Cooperative Community, Inc., 606 Forest Road
Lake Villa : Lake County Cooperative Homes, Inc.

Waukegan : Waukegan Co-op Housing Association, 695 McAlister Avenue Indiana :

Indianapolis: Planner House Homes, Inc., 333 West Sixteenth Street, In

dianapolis 2 Lafayette: Lafayette Cooperative Homes, care of San Perlis, Department of

Mathematics, Purdue University
Mishawaka : Veterans Homes of Mishawaka, Inc., 2333 North Main Street
South Bend :

Beacon Heights Mutual Housing Association
Edison Park, Inc., 230 West Washington

Walnut Grove Mutual Housing Corp., 2717 Woodmere Lane
Vincennes : Deshee Farm, Inc.
Kansas-Wichita : Wichita Housing Association
Kentucky-Louisville : Fincastle Heights Mutual Ownership Corp., 35 Fincastle

Road, Louisville 4 Louisiana :

Lake Providence: East Carroll Parish Farmstead Association

Transylvania : Transylvania Association, Inc. Maryland-Greenbelt: Greenbelt Mutual Housing Association Massachusetts—Boston: Co-op Housing Association of Greater Boston, 1430

Massachusetts Avenue Michigan:

Center Line: Kramer Homes Acquisition Committee, care of C. H. Lindow,

8508 Nathan Hale Dearborn: Homes Associated, care of Mark Hensen Detroit :

Cooperative Homesteads, care of Gale Randall, 477 West Alexandrine

Riverside Homes, Inc., care of Denal Monson, 90 Arden Park, Detroit 2 Rock: Rock Cooperative Co., Box 267 Royal Oak; Cooperative Homesteads, Inc., Route No. 4, Box 879

Wayne: Norwayne Association
Minnesota :

Circle Pines : Circle Pines Development Corp.
Minneapolis: Cooperative Housing Association of Minneapolis, care of Stan-

ley Erickson, 3247 Benjamin Street NE. St. Paul:

AVC Housing Committee, 417 New York Building
Cooperative Housing Association of St. Paul, care of J. B. Devine, 533

Kennard Street

Mississippi :

Cleveland : Bolivar Homestead Corp., Box 591

Swan Lake: Tallahatchie Cooperative Leasing Association
New Jersey :

Audobon Park: Audobon Mutual Housing Corp.
Linden: Winfield Mutual Housing Corp., Winfield Park

New Brunswick : Veterans Building Cooperative, 457 Hamilton Street
New York:
Bronx:

Amalgamated Cooperative Apartments, 80 Van Cortland Park South,

Bronx 63
Farband Housing Corp., 2925 Matthews Avenue
Varma Cooperative Homes, Inc., 828 Gerard Avenue

Workers Colony Corp., 2700–2800 Bronx Park, East
Brooklyn:

Bay View Home Association, 671 Forty-seventh Street
Broadview Association, 4313 Ninth Avenue
Corner View Association, Inc., 4401-4407 Fourth Avenue
Finnish Home Building Association, 816–826 Forty-third Street
Florence Homes Association, Inc., 546 Fortieth Avenue
466 Forty-ninth Street Club, 466 Forty-ninth Street
Hillside Association, 566 Forty-fourth Street
Hilltop Association, Inc., 4404 Sixth Avenue
Linden Heights Association, Inc., 702-712 Forty-fifth Street
Parkside Association, Inc., 649 Forty-first Street
Parks Slope Homes, Inc., 521 Forty-first Street
Pleasant View Association, Inc., 574 Forty-fourth Street
Riverside Homes Association, Inc., 673–683 Forty-first Street
Sun Garden Homes Association, Inc., 637–661 Forty-first Street
Sunset Homes Association, 4015 Seventh Avenue
Sunset View Association, Inc., 605 and 611 Forty-first Street

· Victory Homes Association, 672 Forty-sixth Street New York:

Amalgamated Dwellings, Inc., 504 Gerard Street
Beekman Hill Cooperative Association, Inc., 343 East Fiftieth Street
Consumers Cooperative Services, 38 Park Row
Cooperative Housing Corporation, 111 East Fifty-sixth Street
East River Cooperative Apartments, 504 Grand Street
Greenwich House Cooperative Apartments, Inc., 30 Jones Street
Group Homes, 201 West Eighty-eighth Street
109 West One Hundred and Forty-first Street Corp.
152–154 West One Hundred and Thirty-first Street Corp.
Our Cooperative House, 433 West Twenty-first Street
Sky View Acres Homestead Co-op, care of James Best, 564 West One

Hundred and Sixtieth Street
Stockbridge Apartments, Inc., 603-605 West One Hundred and Thirty-

eighth Street
Sunnyside Second Cooperative Housing Association, Inc., 18 East Forty-

eighth Street Sydney Hillman Homes Usonia Homes--A Cooperative, Inc., 255 West Eighty-eighth Street,

care of Apartment 1330 Schenectady : Westwood housing project White Plains: Veterans Cooperative Housing Association, care of Bleakeley,

Pratt & Walker Brooklyn:

Cooperative Community Homes, 91 Pulaski Street

Veterans Cooperative League, 1116 Kings Highway
North Dakota :
Bismarck :

Bismarck Housing Cooperative

Highland Acres
Ohio:
Cleveland:

Rochdale Housing Cooperative, care of M. P. Bauman, 11619 Detroit

Avenue
Cleveland Cooperative Homes, Inc., 420 Engineers Building, Cleveland 14

Ohio—Continued
Dayton:

Dayton Mutual Homes, Inc., 104 Malcolm Drive, Dayton 10
Greenment Mutual Housing Corp., 20 Rembrandt Boulevard

Oak Park Cooperative Housing Association, care of Charles McGuerin Lorain : Lorain Veterans Housing Association, 1017 Tenth Street Pennsylvania:

Feasterville: Bryn Gweled Homesteads, Gravel Hill Road
Fayette County : Penn-Craft Community
Glen Mills : Tanguy Homesteads, care of Robert Wilson, Rural Delivery 1
Philadelphia: American Veterans' Housing Cooperative, Inc., 1228 Locust

Street, Philadelphia 7

Pittsburgh: Mutual Homes Co-op Association Texas—Dallas: Dallas Park Mutual Ownedship Corp., 100 Duncanville Avenue,

Dallas 11
Utah:
Ogden:

Mutual Housing Association, care of Marion Wilson, K-27 Navy-Way,
Washington Terrace
Washington Terrace Housing Committee, care of David W. Buttars,

Washington Terrace
West Virginia—Charleston: Hill Top Park, Inc., Post Office Box 707
Wisconsin:

Crestwood : Wisconsin Cooperative Housing Association, post office, Madison,

Route No. 1 Fon du Lac: West Division Street Co-op, care of Julia Gibbons, secretary,

150 Sixth Street Milwaukee :

Milwaukee Cooperative Homes, Inc., care of Alfred G. Reindl, 5070

North Thirty-fifth Street, Milwaukee 9
Milwaukee Housing Authority

Riverside Community Housing Cooperative
Madison : Wisconsin Cooperative Housing Association, care of John Bordner,

Route 2
Racine: Racine Cooperative Homes Association, 1526 Twelfth Street

Superior: Cooperative Builder
Washington-Seattle: Seattle Cooperative Housing Association, care of Addison

Shoudy, 106 Lynn Street
Hawaii-Honolulu : Veterans Village, care of Honolulu Consumers Cooperative

Association, Inc., 934 Maunakea Street
Alaska–Palmer : Matanuska Valley Farmers Cooperative Association
Puerto Rico :

Arecibe: Cooperative De Hogares, care of Jaime Veras, Box 11
Rio Piedras: Associacion Cooperativa el Falansterie, care of Mrs. Aida

Perez, department of economics, University of Puerto Rico
Nova Scotia—Tompkinsville: Arnold Cooperative Housing Corp.

Mr. DEANE. Why would a family apply for a present FHA-type loan on a single house if they could join a cooperative and get cheaper financing?

Mr. BRYANT. That is a very good question and should be answered clearly. My feeling is, and I think you would agree, that Americans

, are noted for wanting to get ahead in the world and to do things better and that, if a man can afford a twelve- or fifteen- or twenty-thousanddollar house, the chances are very small that he would want to live in an $8,000 house. If there are a few higher-income families who are part of a cooperative because they are members of the same lodge or group, that would strenghten the cooperative and help provide leadership, so I would be opposed to it, but I really see no element of competition. Cooperative housing will find its own level.

Mr. DEANE. In setting up these cooperatives in smaller communities, what do you think shouid be a sound reserve structure?

Mr. BRYANT. We have talked about less risk in these cooperatives, and I included in my thinking that there should definitely be reserves