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TABLE 18.-Percentage of farms, farm population, farm acreage, and value of farm products, by economic class, United States, 19451

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1 Special report on the 1945 sample census of agriculture. Roman numerals in this table correspond with class numbers in the definitions on pp. 15 and 16 of the sample census, and in table 29 beginning on p. 120. TABLE 19.-Number and important characteristics of farms, by economic class, United States, 19451

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1 Special report on the 1945 Sample Census of Agriculture, pp. 15-16 and 120-159.

2 Average of all farms in each class.

TABLE 20.—Farms classified by total value of farm products sold or used in farm households, 1944 and 1939

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Mr. BANTA. Mr. Brannan, I notice on page 2, last paragraph, you say [reading]:

Farmers who are in need of assistance with their housing problems might be divided into four principal groups. Senate 866 would enable the Department of Agriculture to be of some assistance to each of these groups.

Now, group I is defined as being [reading]:

adequate farms whose operators have cash or a basis for conventional types of credit adequate to finance acceptable housing.

How many farmers do you have in that group?

Mr. BRANNAN. Again I say that we have relied upon the census figures in making estimates.

Mr. BANTA. You have taken the figures out, however.

Mr. BRANNAN. Yes.

Mr. BANTA. How long have you been working on this program?
Mr. BRANNAN. About 4 years.

Mr. BANTA. After 4 years of study and work on this program you should be able to give this committee the answers to simple questions. Here is a statement which gives only general information. And when we ask you some simple question about it, the reply is "I do not know." This committee would like to know.

Mr. BRANNAN. Well, now, sir

Mr. BANTA. And you ought to submit your facts in such a way that this committee would know.

Now I would like to have you tell me, if you can, how many farms you have in that group, and, if you cannot, just tell me you do not know.

Mr. BRANNAN. All right, sir. We say approximately 3,000,000. Mr. BANTA. 3,000,000 farms in that group?

Mr. BRANNAN. Yes.

Mr. BANTA. How many do you have in group II?

Mr. MULTER. May I suggest that Mr. Brannan may have somebody else here from his Department who can answer those questions? Apparently he is being furnished the information. Why not get it directly from the man who has the information?

Mr. BRANNAN. That is perfectly all right. Mr. Smith, of the Bureau of Agricultural Economics, is with me today, and I will be very happy to refer those questions to him, if you wish.

Mr. BANTA. If you do not know the answers you might say so and tell us the name of the man who does, if you have anybody in your Department who does know. Then we can proceed with our questions. Mr. BRANNAN. All right. Mr. Smith and I will jointly try to provide the answers.

Mr. BANTA. I have asked you a question, Mr. Brannan, and that is how many farmers there are in this group II. Mr. BRANNAN. About 1,00,000, sir. Mr. BANTA. How many in group III? Mr. BRANNAN. About half a million. Mr. BANTA. And in group V?

Mr. BRANNAN. About a million.
Mr. BANTA. About a million?

Mr. BRANNAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BANTA. You have a million in group II, half a million in group III, a million in group IV, and about three million in group I. Now, to return to group I, what assistance from the Department of Agriculture does that group need?

Mr. BRANNAN. Just access to the new developments in research in housing improvement.

Mr. BANTA. Do you know that all building materials people and all retailers engaged in the sale of building materials furnish all of that type of information for their customers?

Mr. BRANNAN. I know that they furnish all that they have available. But I do not think they have said the last word on the subject, and that there is opportunity for additional research and study in these fields.

Mr. BANTA. Do you propose, then, to increase the staff of persons engaged in the research and study in these fields in the Department of Agriculture?

Mr. BRANNAN. And the colleges for that purpose; yes, sir.

Mr. BANTA. How many persons do you now have engaged in that kind of activity in the Department of Agriculture?

Mr. BRANNAN. I am not sure of this figure, but there are probably three or four people at Beltsville working on these subjects.

Mr. BANTA. Three or four?

Mr. BRANNAN. Yes.

Mr. BANTA. How many architects do you have?

Mr. BRANNAN. That would include the architects and engineers. Mr. BANTA. Can you break it down? How many architects and how many engineers do you have in the Department of Agriculture now who are doing this kind of work?

Mr BRANNAN. I am sorry. I do not know the personnel qualifications of each of the individuals out there, but I would say one or two of them are architects, perhaps, and one or two of them are engineers. Mr. BANTA. And who are the architects?

Mr. BRANNAN. I will have to furnish that for the record.

(The information referred to is as follows:)

The architects at Beltsville, working on rural housing are J. Robert Dodge, Llewellyn Price, and Elinor Ullman. In addition, H. L. Garver, J. W. Rockey, and Edward G. Molander, engineers, devote part of their time to rural housing.

Mr. BANTA. Are they men who have had special experience in the field of farm architecture?

Mr. BRANNAN. I think they have.

Mr. BANTA. Let us take that number and compare it with the number of architects and engineers engaged in research for the industry, with its thousands of retail outlets.

Mr. BRANAN. As a matter of fact all of the information that is developed by these people is made available to the industry and is used by them as well as by the colleges.

Mr. BANTA. You do not mean to say that the industry depends upon the Department of Agriculture, which has three or four people classified as such technicians, for their material?

Mr. BRANNAN. I did not say any such thing, sir. But I did say that it is available to them, and I will say that the industry is dependent upon the Department of Agriculture in many other fields of research.

Mr. BANTA. Well, we are just talking about this field of research. You would not say that the three or four technicians you mentioned made a very vast amount of material available to the farmers at the retail outlets, would you?

Mr. BRANNAN. I did not say that.

Mr. BANTA. How much money is authorized for in this section for farm home financing?

Mr. BRANNAN. Do you refer to sections 710, 711, and 712?
Mr. BANTA. Yes.

Mr. BRANNAN. They are graduated amounts over the period of the next 3 or 4 years.

Mr. BANTA. What is the total?

Mr. BRANNAN. First of all, in connection with loans made pursuant to section 703 [reading]:

the Secretary is authorized, on or after July 1, 1948, to make commitments for contributions aggregating not more than $500,000 per annum, and to make additional commitments on or after July 1 of each of the years 1949, 1950, and 1951 which shall require aggregate contributions of not more than $1,000,000, $1,500,000, and $2,000,000 per annum, respectively.

Mr. BANTA. That is not for farm-home financing?
Mr. BRANNON. I am getting to that, sir. [Reading:]

There are hereby authorized to be appropriated to the Secretary (a) such sums as may be necessary to permit payments on notes

Do you want me to read the section through, sir?

Mr. BANTA. No. I wanted you to tell me how much money is authorized under this bill for loans for the purpose of financing farmhome construction.

Mr. BRANNON (reading):

$25,000,000 on and after July 1, 1948; $50,000,000 on and after July 1, 1949; an additional $75,000,000 on and after July 1, and an additional $100,000,000 on or after July 1, 1951.

Mr. BANTA. That is $250,000,000.

Mr. BRANNON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BANTA. What do you think the average loan would be to those who would find need for applying to this agency for a loan?

Mr. BRANNON. Of course in group IV it cannot exceed $1,000, of which $500 could be a grant. In the other two groups I would say that it is a very difficult thing to estimate because nobody knows what the building costs and labor costs, and so forth, are going to be in the future.

We ought to be able to divide it up into houses that are going to be repaired as against those that are going to be constructed.

Mr. BANTA. Of course if you have a million farms where they have no credit available or no financing for adequate housing you would not have enough to give each one of them a thousand dollars, would you? Mr. BRANNAN. Not the first year, certainly. This is a continuing program, sir.

Mr. BANTA. Well, you have $250,000,000 for a continuing program up until 1951. Would there have to be further authorizations after

1951?

Mr. BRANNON. No. That is an open-end authorization-"on and after July 1, 1951."

Mr. BANTA. I do not understand it that way. There is provided not to exceed $25,000,000 on or after July 1, 1948; $50,000,000 the next year; $75,000,000 the next year; and an additional $100,000,000 for the next year.

Is that an annual appropriation on a permanent basis after that$100,000,000 a year, after 1951, for all time?

Mr. BRANNAN. I thought it was, sir, but I understand it is not. Mr. BANTA. As I understood this, the total authorization would end with the "additional 100,000,000 on or after July 1, 1951," and that the total authorized is $250,000,000.

Mr. BRANNAN. You are correct.

Mr. BANTA. If that is true, you could not spread it very far among five and a half million farmers, could you?

Mr. BRANNAN. No. But perhaps, if the program works well and to the satisfaction of the Congress, they might authorize going on with the problem.

Mr. BANTA. Of course that is what you anticipate-carrying on this program in perpetuity. Is that not right?

Mr. BRANNAN. Only until the problem is solved, sir.

Mr. BANTA. Well, do you know how many farm homes there are now in the United States which need improvement and which are unable to get it by application to present sources?

Mr. BRANNAN. Yes, sir. I thought we had just told you those figures.

Mr. BANTA. In other words, you say that these five and a half million homes now need some improvements, and that two and a half million of them are unable to get them from present available sources. Mr. BRANNAN. That is about right, sir.

If I may refer you to the first page of my statement [reading]:

In April 1947, 18.9 percent of rural-farm dwelling units were in need of major repairs.

Mr. BANTA. How many farm dwelling units are there now that are not occupied at all?

Mr. BRANNAN. I have never seen any statistics on that at all, and we have not tried to get them. But I would assume that practically all habitable dwellings anywhere in this country are inhabited.

Mr. BANTA. Why do you assume that?

Mr. BRANNAN. Because of the extreme housing shortage in this country.

Mr. BANTA. Well, who told you that we have an extreme housing shortage in the farm areas?

Mr. BRANNAN. Well, everybody you talk to about it tells you that. Mr. BANTA. Is it not rather preposterous that the Assistant Secretary of Agriculture should come here and say that he has no idea of how many unoccupied farm houses there are and that he is just assuming they are filled because everybody you talk to says there is an extreme housing shortage?

Mr. BRANNAN. You draw your own conclusions, sir; but I will say this

Mr. BANTA. I will tell you what they are. I think it is preposterous that the Assistant Secretary of Agriculture should answer anybody on this committee and say that he knows nothing about it at all and that he assumes, because everybody on the street says that there is an extreme housing shortage, that all habitable farm houses must all be occupied.

Of course that is not the fact. And this Congress does not have available the means of doing research in that field to determine how many unoccupied farm houses there are now. But the Department of Agriculture does have the means, since it has an enormous number

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