ties if urgently needed equipment and surplus materiel were placed within their reach. Such projects would, of course, be based upon the use of both indigenous resources and personnel.

Let us give you one example.

Catholic Relief Services-N.C.W.C. has been attempting for several years to initiate in Ecuador a land clearance and utilization project to be staffed by an existing colony of Italian migrants. This carefully developed project suffers presently from a lack of earth-moving machinery of all types-from road scrapers to bulldozers. Catholic Relief Services-N.C.W.C. have been asked, for instance, to supply 2 bulldozers, a motor grader, a carryall scraper, a number of dump trucks, etc., to further this particular project. Unfortunately, at the present time there is no way to acquire this type of equipment on a basis within the financial ability of the sponsoring agency. Yet it is well known that our stores of surplus materiel include such pieces of machinery by the hundreds.

What we are proposing is that the present amendment be broadened (a) to include among the stated end uses self-help or community development projects and (b) to include a provision for the routing of U.S. Government surplus materiel into already established programs through America's voluntary agencies. Likewise, we are suggesting that such materiel be made available to American voluntary agencies not only from disposal depots abroad but from existing stocks within the United States.

Not the least of the problems in connection with such a disposal effort as envisioned by the proposed amendment would be that of transport from the point of storage to the point of use. The inclusion of surplus materiel available in the United States in the proposed amendment would make possible the forwarding of such urgently needed supplies through the transport facilities already available to the voluntary agencies of America.

In closing, may I state on behalf of Catholic Relief ServicesN.C.W.C. our hope that such use and scope as we have proposed will be made possible under the proposed legislative change. May I, at the same time, on behalf of Catholic Relief Services-N.S.W.C. commend the sponsors of both bills for the great understanding of worldwide human needs evidenced in their proposals and assure them that they will have the complete cooperation of Catholic Relief ServicesN.Č.W.C. and the other voluntary agencies of America in the conversion of these aims and objectives into successful reality. Thank you, sir.

Senator GRUENING. Thank you very much, Mr. Kinney.

I am wondering whether road scrapers and bulldozers in surplus are present in Ecuador. Now, the problem, of course, would come if they had to be shipped from another continent. The cost of transshipment would more than equal the total value.

My understanding is that, wherever possible, this surplus is distributed and would go from the nearest point where it is stored to where it was needed.

Mr. KINNEY. Yes, sir. I am not conversant with all of the surplus depots, but I believe the major ones are Panama in this continent; the Far East, in Tokyo; and Africa and Near East, Morocco. If they

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are in Panama there should be no serious problem in shipping to Ecuador.

Senator GRUENING. You do not know whether this project is on the seacoast?

Mr. KINNEY. It is in the interior. But we could get the cooperation of the Ecuadorian Government in transporting the equipment to the site.

Senator GRUENING. Well, thank you, Mr. Kinney.

Mr. KINNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator GRUENING. Mr. Patterson, do you wish to make a state

ment?

Mr. PATTERSON. Yes, sir.

Senator GRUENING. Please proceed.

STATEMENT OF A. W. PATTERSON, AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE, PHILADELPHIA, PA.

Mr. PATTERSON. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, my name is A. W. Patterson, and I am representing the American Friends Service Committee for which agency I serve as director of shipping and purchasing.

The American Friends Service Committee, which was organized in 1917, is a social action agency of the Religious Society of Friends (also known as Quakers) and is dependent for its support on voluntary contributions. We started with relief and rehabilitation projects in France, Germany, and Russia at the close of the First World War, and are now operating welfare and/or educational programs in many countries, directed toward expression of good will through service projects, the promotion of international understanding, lessening of tensions and avoidance of war.

We have undertaken extensive relief operations in Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East, and have been particularly concerned with aiding refugees, such as those in Europe after World War II, Palestinian refugees in the Middle East, refugees who fled from Hungary in 1956 to nearby countries, and more recently the quarter million Algerian refugees in Tunisia and Morocco.

While we favor any constructive use of Government excess property as envisaged in bills S. 2725 and S. 2732, we believe that American voluntary agencies registered with the Advisory Committee on Voluntary Foreign Aid should be specifically mentioned in whatever legislation may be enacted on this subject as being among the eligible recipients of donated excess property for use in programs of health, education, refugee relief and other appropriate humanitarian purposes. We could use, for example, large amounts of blankets and tents in our Friends' program of assistance to the very needy Algerian refugees in Tunisia and Morocco. Our efforts last autumn to obtain excess Government blankets for this purpose were unsuccessful. In conclusion, we believe that inclusion of the recognized and experienced American voluntary agencies as eligible recipients of donated Government excess property would be effective in helping meet human need throughout the world, an objective in which the American public is vitally interested.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator GRUENING. Mr. Patterson, what is the nature of these Algerian refugees in Tunisia and Morocco? Are they rebels against the French rule who have fled to these neighboring Arab States? Mr. PATTERSON. Mr. Chairman, these are not political refugees; these are refugees who are fleeing from the fighting, who have lost their homes or are living on the borders in areas where there is danger of their losing their homes. And they have fled to frontier areas in the two neighboring countries to east and west, where they have been living in very miserable conditions.

Senator GRUENING. Have you any idea as to their numbers?

Mr. PATTERSON. Their total number is estimated to be about 250,000—150,000 in Tunisia and 100,000 in Morocco; and they are under the general auspices of the U.N. High Commissioner for refugees, and various groups are helping them under the general umbrella of the U.N. High Commissioner.

Senator GRUENING. Are they living together in some sort of camps or are they scattered?

Mr. PATTERSON. They are scattered in and along the frontier areas, living in makeshift shelters of any kind that they have been able to construct. And many of our experienced refugee workers say that their conditions this past winter have been among the worst of any refugees' in their experience.

Senator GRUENING. Do you know whether there is any desire on the part of any of them to go back to Algeria?

Mr. PATTERSON. As I understand it, Mr. Chairman, they hope to get back to their homes at such time as they may be able when the fighting in Algeria ceases.

Senator GRUENING. Thank you very much, Mr. Patterson.
Mr. BLACKFORD. Mr. Chairman--

Senator GRUENING. I would like to ask the representative of the State Department to give us a report on these Algerian refugees in Tunisia and Morocco. I would like to know, I think the committee would like to know the reasons for their leaving Algeria, what their desires are, whether these are going to be permanent exiles, whether they would like to return to their country, what their prospects are, whether they constitute a more or less permanent group in exile from Algeria, to give us a better understanding of the problems, if we could have that information.

The number cited by Mr. Patterson seems quite formidable; 250,000 is a very substantial number.

Do you think we could get that information?

Mr. MURPHY. I am not sure we will be able to answer all those questions, but we will certainly look into it, Senator, and do our best.

Senator GRUENING. Well, as much information as you can get will certainly be appreciated.

Mr. MURPHY. We will be glad to do that.*

Senator GRUENING. Thank you very much.

Mr. BLACKFORD. May I just add one short paragraph?

Senator GRUENING. Yes, indeed.

Mr. BLACKFORD. Mr. Patterson mentioned the usefulness of tents. At this moment in Chile, where the earthquakes and tidal waves

• See letter to Senator McClellan, dated June 10, 1960, p. 22.

have occurred, from Santiago on south there are nearly 2 million people or some 62 percent of the population of the area absolutely helpless in the middle of the Chilean winter. Our agencies, all of our agencies, are now trying to provide them in any way possible. with temporary shelter, with anything that will keep them alive. We have a demand for tents, tents, tents. If such legislation as is proposed here were now in effect, use of any surplus shelter of this type could be made, contributing greatly to the interest of humanitarianism, and incurring nothing but great good will for the United States.

Senator GRUENING. Thank you, sir.

Thank you very much, gentlemen. We have been very happy to have you.

Mr. KINNEY. Thank you, sir.

Mr. PATTERSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator GRUENING. Now, is there anyone else who wants to testify and is here to testify on S. 2725 and S. 2732? Is Mr. Lowell here?

Mr. LOWELL. Yes, sir.

Senator GRUENING. Would you come forward, please?

STATEMENT OF C. STANLEY LOWELL, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, PROTESTANTS AND OTHER AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, WASHINGTON, D.C.

Mr. LOWELL. Mr. Chairman, my name is C. Stanley Lowell. I am associate director of Protestants and Other Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which is a group predominantly Protestant, including more than 100,000 members, whose top executives include either the present or the past highest officials of the three major denominational groups in the United States-Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian.

Now, we concede, quickly, Mr. Chairman, that the existence of a vast amount of surplus military equipment and property abroad presents the Government with an unprecedented and complex problem in regard to the distribution of these items for their continued use. We concede, further, that the proposal to distribute these items not only to State sponsored and controlled institutions, but also to those of sectarian groups is one which has imposing arguments on both sides. It is only after long consideration that we have felt it necessary to make what I may call a precautionary appearance in regard to this particular principle in the proposed legislation. There are two sides, certainly, to this proposal to include missionary groups as recipients; we feel that it may be the preponderance of evidence is on the negative side.

If this property is made available to missionary groups-hospitals, schools, and other institutions, it will be accepted by them and much of it will, no doubt, be put to good use. The members of this committee and church officials must not forget, however, how the entire missionary cause has suffered in decades past because of its alleged association with Western States and their ambitions. Again and again, the effectiveness of missionary work has been blunted or destroyed by the charge that the missionaries were serving the interest of Western imperialism. Now, there has been very little truth to

these charges, but their effectiveness in crippling missionary operations has been all out of proportion to the minimal truth. We stress the matter because the legislation here proposed gives preference to American organizations, and we feel, therefore, that missionary groups will be deeply involved.

The rising tide of nationalism in Africa, Asia, and scarcely less so in South America, has accentuated difficulties of the missionary program. In order to cope with the problems, they are now accelerating a process of transferring control of church enterprises to nationals of the countries in which they exist. This step has been taken by so many missionary boards in so many areas that we may describe it as one of the basic policies of the foreign missionary movement today. At least so far as Protestant missionary activity is concerned, such a program seems to be general.

Now, what we have to weigh is the effect of these donations of surplus military equipment on the missionary schools and hospitals. Will this tend to re-create the very image that we are trying to efface? To equip these institutions with such materials and properties may well suggest a tie between the U.S. military and the missionary enterprise which will not work to the advantage of either.

It is our feeling that the missionary enterprise of the churches abroad might be more effectively pursued if it did not rely at all on the Government, but only upon such donations as it can receive both from individuals in the countries involved and in the United States. We are suggesting, perhaps, that the enterprise may be better received and more effective if it is not too big. Its operations must not rival those of the state. Missionary work should never try to become the loaf, but only the leaven in the loaf. To strengthen and widen its program with equipment supplied by the U.S. Government may seem to provide a short-term advantage, but in the long run may impede rather than accelerate.

Now, there are other features of our foreign aid program which offer parallels to these proposals. One of them is the surplus commodities distribution via church agencies. And we do believe, Mr. Chairman, that serious doubts as to the wisdom of this program have been raised by its operation to this point. We understand that the program is supposed to be audited by the CIA, but that it has not been audited because there is no appropriation for the purpose. spite the lavish praise of the surplus

Senator GRUENING. May I interrupt?

Mr. LOWELL. Yes, sir.

Senator GRUENING. Which program are you referring to?

De

Mr. LOWELL. I am referring to the program under Public Law 480, title III, under which, through the Department of Agriculture, these surplus commodities are distributed abroad through church agencies. And I am suggesting there may be a parallel to the operations of this program.

Senator GRUENING. You think that program is not being properly managed?

Mr. LOWELL. I think there have been developed-there have appeared in it certain fissures, certain failures of administration which are rather disquieting. I have cited some of them here. I understand that the situation has been substantially improved, but I am