(The information referred to follows:)

OVERSEA AUCTIONS FISCAL YEAR 1959

Number of sales held, 1.

Date: May 12 and 13, 1959.

Location: Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska.'

Four hundred and ninety-five lots involving aircraft accessories, automotive vehicles and equipment, trailers and heavy construction equipment.

Acquisition cost, $1,985,100.

Proceeds, $370,790.

Return, 18.6 percent.

Three hundred and forty-five bidders-80 percent from Alaska.

Two subsequent auction sales were held in Alaska during fiscal year 1960.

1 Alaska was considered an oversea area during fiscal year 1959.

Senator GRUENING. We are going to hold the record open for a few days so all of this material can be brought in. We will hold it open for a week.

Thank you, Colonel Rey.

Is Mr. James A. Garvey, Assistant Commissioner, Office of Utilization and Sales, GSA, here?

I take it you are here to just answer questions?

Mr. BEAN. Yes, sir.

STATEMENT OF JAMES A. GARVEY, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER, OFFICE OF UTILIZATION AND SALES, GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION; ACCOMPANIED BY C. D. BEAN, COMMISSIONER, FEDERAL SUPPLY SERVICE, GSA

Senator GRUENING. Have you any opinion on these bills that are before us, H.R. 9996 and the corresponding Senate bill?

Mr. BEAN. We have no objection, sir.

Senator GRUENING. How about S. 3154?

Mr. BEAN. We have no objection, sir.

Senator GRUENING. What about S. 2725 introduced by Mr. Humphrey, to amend the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949 to permit the donation of foreign excess property for educational and health purposes in certain cases?

Mr. GARVEY. With respect to S. 2725, Mr. Chairman, the only comment the General Services Administration made was that we were not in a position to comment on the foreign policy aspect involved in the objective and the legislative provisions of that bill, but beyond this we interpose no objection to the amendment.

Senator GRUENING. Would that also be true of S. 2732 introduced by Senator Hart and Senator Bartlett with respect to the donation of foreign excess property to medical institutions, hospitals, clinics, health institutes, schools, colleges, and universities?

Mr. GARVEY. With respect to S. 2732, there were two suggestions from the General Services Administration, the first to the effect that we believe the act should state that the utilization of this property for Federal Government purposes overseas should be stated as having priority over the donation of the property. Our second point was that we felt that the giving of preference to some American supported, indirectly or directly founded, or sponsored organizations would cause some complications in administration. Such criteria is hard to interpret, and administering such a program overseas is difficult.

As a matter of fact, with respect to both S. 2725 and S. 2732, Mr. Chairman, GSA has no functional responsibility. We do a job similar to this in the United States, and we offer these suggestions simply from our own experience here as opposed to any responsibility over

seas.

Senator GRUENING. How about the bill which the Defense Department wants, S. 3489, to provide that the Department of Defense may allocate surplus property under its control for transfer under that act only to educational institutions conducting approved military training programs?

Mr. GARVEY. It was our feeling that this would improve the administration of the act. Under present circumstances we have two separate donable groups, the service educational activities, which is under the general administration of the Department of Defense, and the schools, the hospitals and civil defense which are administered through the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. With respect to the former, there is always a priority of choice, and this does not make for an equitable distribution of property on the basis of need. This legislation would correct much of the priority situation and would put this whole program into an organizational arrangement that we think would be more workable.

Senator GRUENING. How about S. 3493 to amend the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949, as amended, so as to authorize the use of surplus personal property by State distribution agencies, and for other purposes?

Mr. GARVEY. The General Services Administration is in accord with this proposed legislation, too, Senator. It is our feeling that this will make whole a practice that is important to the State Agencies for surplus property. Each one of them needs to use certain of surplus property from time to time to administer and carry out is own program. Under the present circumstances we have to go through a technical documentary procedure in order to do this, and this legislation will permit this to be done as a direct action and we think justifiably so.

Senator GRUENING. Then we have S. 2605, introduced by Senator Bush to amend section 203 (f) of the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949 to permit the donation of surplus property to certain civilian youth organizations?

Mr. GARVEY. The General Services Administration, Mr. Chairman, is opposed to the enactment of this bill on the basis that it once again opens up the donation program to the possibility of further additions to the eligible donees. We feel that the present donation program is adequate and should take the property which is available.

Senator GRUENING. What is your feeling on S. 3288, introduced by Senator Magnuson, to amend the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949 to permit the disposal of certain surplus property to State fishery agencies?

Mr. GARVEY. We took the same position on that proposal as we did with respect to S. 2605, it being our feeling that the present program was sufficient.

Senator GRUENING. I think that covers the bill before us. Thank you for being here.

Mr. GARVEY. Thank you.

Senator GRUENING. Will you stay a little while in case we need you?

Mr. GARVEY. Yes, sir.

Senator GRUENING. Mr. Chester B. Lund, Director, Office of Field Administration, Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. Who is with you, Mr. Lund?

Mr. LUND. I have Mr. Gray, director of our surplus property utilization program from the Department and Mr. Hiller of the General Counsel's Office.

If it is your pleasure, Mr. Chairman, I do have a brief statement here that I would like to have introduced into the record and I would attempt to summarize a portion of it here and read a small portion of it.

Senator GRUENING. Do you have copies of it for us?

Mr. LUND. Yes, sir.

Senator GRUENING. That is a very modest statement in length. I would be very happy to have you read it.

STATEMENT OF CHESTER B. LUND, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF FIELD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE; ACCOMPANIED BY WENDELL GRAY, CHIEF, SURPLUS PROPERTY UTILIZATION DIVISION, HEW; AND MANUEL HILLER, OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL, HEW

Mr. LUND. This opportunity to present the views of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare on the seven bills under consideration by the subcommittee is very much appreciated.

Senate bills 2725 and 2732 would authorize the donation of foreign excess property for health and educational purposes in other countries. Because of the demonstrated benefits of the donation program to health and educational institutions in the United States, we are sympathetic to the purposes of these proposals. Since the Department is not responsible for programs of this type outside the United States and its possessions, however, we defer to the views of the responsible agencies with respect to the policy issues involved. In our comments on these bills which we now have under preparation and in clearance we have suggested some technical provisions which are based upon our experience in administering the domestic program.

Senate bill 3154 relates to the importation of foreign excess into the United States. This is a matter outside the purview of the Department, and our comments were not solicited.

Senate bill 3489 would restrict the donation program administered by the Department of Defense to educational institutions conducting military training programs which are approved by the Secretary of the Army, Navy, or Air Force. Other organizations previously having been designated as "educational activities of special interest to the Secretary of Defense" would be transferred to the jurisdiction of the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare, and would be served in the same manner as, and on a basis of equity with, health, education, and civil defense donees. The Department of Defense would also continue to administer the program of donations to the Civil Air Patrol. The Department would not object to the enactment

of this bill, and it would be feasible for the groups transferred to be served through the program which we administer. The Department does wish to recommend the following technical amendment:

Insert, after the comma on page 3, line 2, of the bill, the words "under a designation effective on the day," so that clause (C) would read:

(C) Any other tax-supported or nonprofit activity which, under a designation effective on the day before the date of enactment of this clause, was eligible to receive property under paragraph (2) but which is not eligible to receive property under that paragraph after that date.

The period on page 3, line 6, should follow the quotation marks. The reason for this recommendation is to make clear that an organization, in order to be transferred from the priority program to our program, must have been actually a designated activity-under a donation agreement-on the day before enactment of the bill. Otherwise, in addition to the four national organizations mentioned in the Defense Department's submission of the proposal to Congress, other youth organizations might assume that by analogy they were, as a matter of law, "eligible" under paragraph (2) prior to the enactment of the bill and are therefore eligible under paragraph (3) upon enactment of the bill.

Senate bill 3493 is a proposal submitted by our Department and its purpose is to facilitate the operation of the surplus property donation program. This amendment would make it clear that a State surplus property agency may be authorized, under the terms of a cooperative agreement, to use donable surplus personal property for its own administrative needs in carrying out the program of distributing surplus property to eligible donees. The proposed bill would also permit the transfer of legal title to vehicles or other special types of property thus made available to the State agency, upon a determination of the Administrator of General Services that such action is necessary to, or would facilitate, the effective use of the property. The use of donable property by the State agency in lieu of property that would otherwise have to be purchased, acts to reduce the charges assessed against donee institutions in order to cover the costs of care and handling. The vesting of title to vehicles in the State agency, enables the agency to comply with State motor vehicle. registration laws, and avoids the possibility of any tort claim against the United States arising from the use of such vehicles. This proposal has the concurrence of the General Services Administration and has been cleared by the Bureau of the Budget.

Two additional bills before the subcommittee propose to extend eligibility for donations of surplus property to new groups: S. 2605 provides for donations to certain youth organizations, and S. 3288 provides for donations to State fisheries agencies. The Department is submitting reports on both of these bills. Except for the Department's support of S. 155, which the Senate approved in the last session, the Department has been opposed to establishing new groups of eligibles on the following grounds:

1. The amounts of usable surplus property becoming available are not now sufficient to meet the needs of the presently eligible groups. 2. No sound purpose would thus be served by creating additional competition for the available supply of property, and thereby also greatly complicating administration of the program.

3. Because of the worthy purposes served by all groups seeking eligibility, it would be most difficult to open the program to any new group without admitting many others.

Thank you.

Senator GRUENING. Thank you very much. I think that covers it pretty well.

Our next witness is Mr. Walter G. Rhoten, past president, National Association of State Agencies for Surplus Property.

Mr. Rhoten, you have a very lengthy statement here. Could you summarize it?

Mr. RHOTEN. I think so, Senator.

STATEMENT OF WALTER G. RHOTEN, PAST PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE AGENCIES FOR SURPLUS PROPERTY, COLUMBUS, OHIO

Mr. RHOTEN. My name is Walter G. Rhoten. I am here to testify on behalf of the National Association of State Agencies for Surplus Property which is comprised of the 50 States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. This association came into being on the 6th of October 1947.

President Barry of our association has requested that I represent him and the association. He was unable to be here due to conditions beyond his control.

President Barry testified before this special subcommittee of the Committee on Government Operations, U.S. Senate, 86th Congress, 1st session, on July 29 and 30, and August 10, 1959. His statement will be found on pages 102 through 104 of those hearings. Our association understands that these hearings are on seven Senate bills, some of which, if they become law, would further amend section 203 (j) of the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949, as amended.

If you will permit me to skip part of the prepared statement, Senator, I will cover it as rapidly as possible.

The association interposes no objection to Senate bill 2725. The association interposes no objection to Senate bill 2732.

In that light I might say, if you care to have it entered into the record, recently I received a letter from the American Academy for Girls at Nicosia, Cyprus, concerning the interest of this academy in surplus property. This letter is dated the 15th of April 1960, and attached to this letter is the reply of the State department of education, Ohio State Agency for Property Utilization.

Senator GRUENING. They will be placed in the record at this point. (The communications referred to follow :)

AMERICAN ACADEMY FOR GIRLS, Nicosia, Cyprus, April 15, 1960. DEAR SIRS: I read on page 128 of the February 22, 1960, issue of U.S. News & World Report that a quantity of surplus Government equipment is to be given away to schools and colleges. This includes laboratory equipment and other supplies needed for schools. I am the math and science teacher in the abovenamed academy. This is a school of about 200 girl students from classes 6 through 12 (like through high school in the States).

I have my masters in education from the Ohio State University and taught 3 years in Ohio before entering the Army in 1942. My mother's home is in Utica, Ohio.