senior high school age groups come in contact either verbally or directly with some kind of information or temptation in the general drug field.

Mr. BELL. We had some testimony, Mr. Bottomly, in Los Angeles about some of the youngsters' feelings in growing up; that there were several reasons why they went to drugs, and one of them expressed very clearly that she didn't feel satisfied with herself, she felt that she was inadequate, so that she would take up drugs merely as a means of, well, she didn't care whether it was bad for her or not. In effect, she didn't like herself; she didn't care. It didn't matter to her particularly if she did take them up, it seemed like the thing to do, and some of her peers were doing it, and so she immediately took it up. Do you see this as a reaction among your youngsters at all?

Mr. BOTTOMLY. Yes; I think there is a great feeling of worthlessness at a certain age among the youngsters, and during this time, which says: "We are particularly vulnerable. We feel inadequate." They are changing in their body growth; they are under pressure to learn; there is competition in our school, in our society; there is a general feeling of rejection or alienation which many of them have from the adult Society; and this leads them to turn to peer groups or to maybe a little older than their peer groups for the best kind of information and socalled truth about what they should do. Things that happen on the college level, today, we can be as school men, will be in the high schools next year and the junior high school the following year, and perhaps the elementary school the following year after that. And this trend has been very clear in the use of marihuana, for example.

Mr. BELL. I am very glad to hear you mention the importance of counselors. So much of our hearings indicated that they must have counselors who don't turn them off. And the youngsters sometimes feel that they should have room in which to discuss the problem back and forth among themselves with a counselor who really has some kind of understanding of youngsters. This, I think, is a very important part of the Meeds bill, to get to the heart of developing teachers' training, which you also mentioned, in getting them prepared and to really get to the youngsters. This seems to be the big problem. We older people don't seem to be able to reach them.

Mr. BOTTOMLY. The National Defense Education Act and the National Science Foundation programs are aimed at significant powerful teacher-leaders all over the country, getting them involved in new curriculums and, out of that, spreading the word to others. I think this bill offers the possibility of getting counsellors and other kinds of people who are trained to work with youngsters up to date and involved in this particular program and in being trainers of others, and this could make the efficiency of this program considerable.

Mr. BELL. I assume from what you said you generally support this legislation.

Mr. BOTTOMLY. Yes; very much.

Mr. MEEDS. Mr. Hawkins.

Mr. HAWKINS. Mr. Bottomly, I was quite interested in your explanation of what is being done in the Seattle schools. Some of the testimony has indicated that development of the curriculum in drugabuse education is not sufficient and that many of the young people, as my colleague, Mr. Bell, has indicated, feel that drug abuse is merely a

part of their revolt. It is a part of their feeling that they are not really getting what they want in the school system or from society itself, and therefore just to merely develop a curriculum to be told about the evils of drugs is not sufficient. They want the answers to many of their personal problems. They want answers about the things that are developing in society today. They want self-expression. They want things that are relevant to making a living, and so forth, and they are not somehow being satisfied this way. Would you agree or would you care to indicate what type of education you are speaking of when you speak of developing of a curriculum in this field? Are you merely confining it to drug abuse or are you perhaps suggesting that other types of programs are also desirable?

Mr. BOTTOMLY. I think the curriculum itself must go with the students back into an exploration of some of the major problems that exist in our society that lead to this, but it is both a social and a personal thing. We are in a battle for youngsters' minds, really is what it amounts to. They are getting a lot of information and getting a lot of the value system from what Congressman Meeds has defined as the subculture in his speech of March 20 of last year. This subculture is manufacturing a value system, information and a language or vocabulary about drugs that is being picked up by youngsters down the line. In the educational system, it seems to me, it is our responsibility to offset this and provide adults who know what is going on, who have honest answers and can relate adequately to the youngsters, to do battle for the minds of these youngsters. But it is much deeper than just information; there is no doubt about it. The youngsters need to know that somebody cares for them; cares whether they are going to succeed or fail, live or die, and they have found this care among the peer groups, because somehow or other many of them have felt rejected and alienated from their parents and from the school system. We have to go back and make sure that every individual youngster in the school system has some attention, is cared for, and looked after in a personal way over and above the pounding of information into his head. And this is that sensitive counseling that I think this particular bill will make possible.

Mr. HAWKINS. Do you believe that school people are locked in, that they cannot really tell the truth about sex, about homosexuality, about race relations, about, let's say, the war in Vietnam, about the other controversial subjects, and for this reason many of the young people turn to drugs as a kick or perhaps to get that satisfaction they are not getting from what they are being taught in school?

Mr. BOTTOMLY. I think there are a lot of grievances that the youngsters have now against adults and against the institutions of society, which are all part, which all have to be examined in the educational process; there is no doubt about it. But, on the other hand, it is true that the public schools of this country and of the localities are boxed in by political and social pressures that say there is an area of knowledge that you have to stay away from. In other words, youngsters aren't supposed to know some things. This is something that we set aside over here [indicating] and you are not supposed to touch upon. Somebody else may be able to teach youngsters this stuff, but you stay away from it in the public school system. The youngsters aren't going to stay away from that knowledge. If there is knowledge to be gained,

the very act of growing up calls for a finding out and searching, and if we don't get into the act on these things, somebody else will. The drug culture and the older guys who have been in the drug business, some of the pushers and some of those who are involved in the economics of drugs, are moving in to supply the information and supply the encouragement, supply the advertising, they are good ad men, for this.

Somehow or the other the public schools must be given the opportunity to explore knowledge with youngsters wherever it might lead them, knowledge that is intellectually honest, knowledge to be gained at an appropriate maturity level. We are supposed to keep away from many areas of knowledge, and as a result the public schools today are vulnerable to the charge by youngsters that they are not relevant. We can't talk about sex, we can't talk about drugs, we can't talk about the war in Vietnam, and about many other things because they are controversial issues. Stay away from that, people say. The result is that youngsters are saying, "Well, the things that are really important to us in our day-to-day living, our bodies, our senses, these are the things we can't talk about in the school with adults, and as a result we are alienated." They go off to some other kind of a subculture that gives them the satisfaction, and I think this is really what we are seeing today.

Mr. HAWKINS. That is one of the most honest opinions I have ever had from someone connected with the educational establishment, Thank you.

Mr. MEEDS. Thank you, Mr. Hawkins.

Mr. Hansen.

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Let me express my appreciation for the very fine statement, includ ing the written statement which I have read. I think you make a very helpful and instructive suggestion in strengthening the research function of this proposed legislation.

I was particularly interested, if I understood you correctly, in the recommendation that this research include the human relationships, because it seems to me that much of our problem is one of effective communication with the young people to create in them the kind of understanding which will lead to the right value judgments on their part.

I would ask you further if you would concur that the legislation might be further strengthened if, as a followup of the research function, as a followup of the function of gathering information, the Commissioner of Education was assigned specifically the additional responsibility of providing a kind of a clearinghouse of information. One of the most encouraging results of these hearings has been an assembling of information from all parts of the country, including descriptions of successful techniques that have been employed. The parents have organized a new kind of organization to help each other to discover addiction and to determine the best ways to solve the problem. In other places we have been, a school district or a group has discovered something that worked there. So it would seem to me, and I would ask your comment on this suggestion, that the legislation could serve a very useful purpose if it provided the vehicle

that could furnish the information on what has worked on different plans to other people who may have need for that information.

Mr. BOTTOMLY. I think that would be an excellent part of the act. This kind of a clearinghouse has been very successful in other areas of education, and school districts, communities, looking for solutions to this problem can find a great deal of help in what has worked in other places. Theory has developed these days out of practice rather than out of the ivory tower, and I think things are moving so rapidly this would be a very important part of the act.

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MEEDS. Thank you, Mr. Hansen.

And my commendations and thanks to you, Dr. Bottomly, for a very fine, relevant testimony, and particularly the answer you gave to Mr. Hawkin's question. It is a very serious problem, and we hope that this bill will help bridge the gap of relevancy for young people and that schools can, indeed, undertake an honest exposure of this problem so that we in the education, or you in the education system become the leaders and disseminators of information rather than the subculture of which you spoke.

Mr. BELL. I would like to add my commendations.

Mr. MEEDS. The next witness is Robert Schillberg, Snohomish County prosecuting attorney, who will testify from the aspect of a law enforcement person intimately engaged in the problems of suburbia in America, representing the county to the north, Snohomish County, which has grown very rapidly, which is subject to all of the pressures that a rapidly growing community is subject to, and should be able to give us some insight into the problem of drugs in suburbia.

Mr. Schillberg.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT SCHILLBERG, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY, SNOHOMISH COUNTY

Mr. SCHILLBERG. Thank you very much, Lloyd.

I am very happy to be down here, and for several reasons. One, you also are very familiar with the law enforcement aspect in suburbia, because you preceded me in my present job and I am just trying to follow some of the principles that you helped me start on.

We have a very rapidly growing problem of drug abuse in Snohomish County, at least from the indications we can get, and it is hard to get, real hard to get, indications. There were some very great percentage increases mentioned in Los Angeles. Well, I can mention the percentage increases that are in Snohomish County. In fact, prior to 1965 we had a very small number, one, two, three, very minor number of cases. In 1965 and 1966 there were eight arrests for narcotie violations in each of those years. This would be including marihuana. In 1967 it went up to 22. That is almost 300 percent in 1 year. In 1967, 1968, it went up to a hundred and twenty. That is a little over 500 percent in 1 year. In 1969, the first half of this year, we have had a hundred and seven. That is almost doubling again in 6 months from a full year before. And they haven't stopped.

I don't know. The problem has not reached the termination. We haven't turned the corner and started to solve it and get better.

Juvenile court is about the same situation, 10, 12 referrals per month. About half the cases coming in go into juvenile court.

What this reflects in actual use, I don't know. I don't think anybody really knows how many people, how many juveniles are using it. There is just no information, no hard information I am aware of. Estimates are being made, surveys have been taken in schools, and so on and so forth. The accuracy is just not there. But there is no question that there has been a growing activity and growing prosecution, but we just aren't solving it.

There is also one aspect of this use not reflected in the statistics. Many of the people don't come into the law enforcement agencies. If they are too severely injured or harmed, they go to the hospital to get medical treatment, they don't come in to us. It is beyond the point if this is the kind of a situation.

Another aspect of this is we don't have a constant, fixed type of drugs we are talking about. When it first came, going back a couple or 3 years ago, there seemed to be a spectrum, everything from belladonna to glue to marihuana to narcotics they were using. LSD seems to be dropping off. Marihuana was going up. Now we are getting more heroin coming through. It is not a constant situation, it is a changing situation, not a static one.

I am sure this is the most rapidly growing aspect of law enforcement, of criminal violations, reported crime violations to our office, but it is not the only law enforcement problem we have, by any means. Every type of law enforcement job is growing. We have a growth in population problem, and an increase in crime on top of the growth, so we have a double effect.

At the same time the law enforcement personnel are not going up by anywhere near the same amount. The rules are changing, the law is changing, the basic definition of crimes are changing, the rules of the court are changing, the rules of evidence are changing, the concept of the people of crime is changing, and then you have this thrown on top, so it is not an area where you can put your full attention on it, by any means.

And, of course, going to our own office, we have averaged for the last several years about a 30-percent turnover of personnel. So your average time is between 1 and 2 years of experience of the deputy prosecutors, so you have to handle these growing problems, including drugs, with people who do lack experience. They are inexperienced. They are excellently qualified people, but they lack experience. They are going through a training process at the same time they are trying to solve and deal with changing, not static, problems, so it is a double shot there, too.

The police are going through the same situation, probably not to the same extreme. They are increasing personnel and they are having turnover to handle these changing problems.

One thing particularly in this proposed act, I am very impressed with it because it does not give a very narrow or closed definition of drugs, it just leaves it open. And the problem is open and the use is open, it is all kinds that are being used. It allows flexibility for the act to follow the use, in effect, rather than limiting it.

Another thing in the use is that the people who get involved in drug abuses are not normal. If there is a normal criminal, they aren't

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