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Mr. MOLLENHOUR. I am sure we could, Congressman, I already had one or two young ladies who have been educated in this type of social work come to our offices and say, "If anything should come of this, this is exactly the type of thing I had in mind for employment."

I referred them to the school system. I don't know what happened. I would like to make one thing clear before I answer another question. I have been complimented here rather highly two or three times and I want you to know that this is not a Mr. Mollenhour campaign, this has been a team effort on the part of everyone in our newspaper. In order to do this sort of thing you must have publishers who are willing to provide the means, the where-with-all and have the courage to print what is good for their community, regardless of who gets hurt. Mr. HANSEN. I certainly can appreciate that. And I want my complimentary remarks to be extended to all of those on the team that made this possible. This same team concept has got to characterize the efforts we are undertaking, and while it might be helpful if we could find the resources at the Federal level, to fund the kind of a program we believe would be most effective, I would still hope and I feel some confidence, after having visited this community, I would still hope that if the role of the Federal Government, because of lack of resources and this money-and this money we pay it anyway, whether we spend it out of State or local units of government or the Federal Government, it is all taxpayers' money anyway.

But if the Federal role is limited to the providing of the tools and the information and help on techniques, that the same kind of interest that has been generated here will provide the Mrs. Steels who can carry the battle through to the front where the action is.

I think it will be more effective if there is the kind of public understanding that will enable us to allocate the resources and the priorities to this effort. Then we can, consistent with the capability of the Federal Government, help provide the tools to make that effort more effective at the local level.

Mr. MOLLENHOUR. Your point is well taken, sir. I have the utmost confidence in our own community that their awareness of the problem, that if such trained counselors were provided, I am sure they would be willing to pay for the hiring.

But I am afraid in our country there are all too many communities who have a problem. I don't like to point this county out as I think it has been pointed out, and suggest that we have a greater problem than any other community. I don't think we do. I think our people have been willing to recognize that they have a problem.

Now, those communities that have not recognized that, who still don't want to look at it, they might not hire such counselors.

Mr. HANSEN. Isn't it also necessary in trying to achieve the same kind of understanding that apparently you have been doing with a measure of success here, to view it in terms of an investment rather than an expenditure. I am sure you would be the first to agree that you don't have to save many young lives in order to have made an enormous profit in terms of dollars and cents, apart from the human values involved.

Mr. MOLLENHOUR. I think this is one of the reasons that the judges don't send more of them away. Actually it is a good investment. It is

cheaper to hire a counselor than to handle the problems we have from our adult criminals.

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you very much. I appreciate your testimony. Mr. BRADEMAS. Mr. Mollenhour, I would want to reiterate my own appreciation and hope you will extend our thanks to the publisher and Don Cramer and Norman Hague and all of your other associates. Mr. MOLLEN HOUR. Our entire community appreciates the presence of your committee, believe me.

Mr. BRADEMAS. The Chair would observe that we have two witnesses remaining, and the next witness is Miss Martha Spurgeon, the director of the Elkhart Welfare Department.

We are very pleased to have you with us. You may please proceed. STATEMENT OF MARTHA SPURGEON, DIRECTOR, ELKHART

WELFARE DEPARTMENT

Miss SPURGEON. This is a problem that is very dear to my heart and that our country has been very concerned about. But I think we need to attack this from all aspects of it, not only addiction but the dependency. We need to differentiate and learn another terminology, because we have many people who are dependent upon drugs in addition to marihuana.

We need to educate our children in the early grades and early stages about the results of taking too much medication or drugs, the effect it has upon their physical body.

I feel that there is a definite lack of control of drugs. There is a definite inability or desire of the medical profession to want to police the use of drugs. We all know this is a nasty business and we can understand why they don't want to be involved in it.

One of the things that occurs to me that might be part of the problem, and the reason there probably isn't as much concern, is the lack of social stigma connected with this. We also recognize that there is a definite lack of enforcement of legal action through our courts and extreme difficulty in securing convictions under our present laws.

We also lack treatment or medical centers where the people who become dependent upon the medication can be treated. And another area is the problem of tax-supported public assistance programs and the involvement of the amount of money that would be used and involved in paying for these dependencies or addictions.

We find that under these Government programs there is very little control and this concerns me, because how do you go about saying to these individuals, "Well, you can't have certain medications."

In our county we use the county medical association in helping us to police the medical bills that are paid to determine whether or not a person has become addicted and what action our department shall take in this area.

In the past 6 months we have referred five cases to the Bureau of Narcotics because of addiction. In one instance we had one individual who had 38 prescriptions written in one month which consisted of 1,200 tablets, an average of 35 tablets a day. This was in the area of Demerol. heroin, and other hard narcotics and strong medications.

We also realize that there is a great need for determination on a Federal level on the Federal subsidized programs, how far and how much drug use are we going to permit these people to have.

I also feel if you have a good, substantial, ethical doctor you don't have these problems, but you have unethical ones who practice the same as ethical ones, but fortunately you don't have too many. But they are the ones who then present the problem to the people administering the public assistance programs.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you very much, Miss Spurgeon. You have zeroed in on some very specific problems in this whole field and I would like to ask a question or two about some of the points you have made. You referred in your testimony to, in your words, "The inability or lack of desire on the part of the medical profession to police the problem of drug abuse."

That is a fairly stiff statement and I wonder if you could tell us why in your judgment this is the case? I am sure that a lot of doctors, and other citizens in the community, would be surprised by that statement. Miss SPURGEON. I imagine they would. But we were very much aware of this when we began having problems with the individuals who were becoming dependent upon drugs and the reluctance of the doctors to want to help us police this and make a decision about what we should do in these situations.

This in itself then leads you to realize there are political implications. There are implications of, "Will I lose my practice, will I lose my standing in the community?"

I think this is the main point that I would want to make. I might say I have discussed this problem with a number of the members of the medical profession who concur with me in these remarks.

Mr. BRADEMAS. I take it you are saying there is an area for improvement here in the situation so far as the assistance in the medical profession could render in solving this problem?

Miss SPURGEON. Yes.

Mr. BRADEMAS. You have also commented on the lack of enforcement through our courts and the extreme difficulty in securing convictions under present law. Why is that the case?

Miss SPURGEON. I am judging this from a number of cases we have had with young people who have been involved in marihuana. Most of the time they are put on probation and I realize after discussing this with our judges, that this is a serious problem. They don't want to have them committed to the boys' school. They feel if the problem can be solved on a local level, it should be.

When they are on probation it leaves them on loose ends. They can be rebooked on the problem. You can't police them 24 hours a day. Mr. BRADEMAS. You also referred to the increased use of marihuana by the schoolchildren of Elkhart County. How much of an increase? What figures do you have?

Miss SPURGEON. I don't have definite figures, but I know the medical profession and the police department are very concerned because it is filtering down now from college and high school even into the grade schools. In addition to this we are faced with the children turning to glue sniffing, even gasoline sniffing.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you very much indeed. Mr. Meeds.
Mr. MEEDS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Miss Spurgeon, I just have one question addressed to something you said. You stated that education in drugs should begin early, and I as

sume by that you meant that we should begin in the early grades to educate our children.

Miss SPURGEON. Yes.

Mr. MEEDS. Do you have any idea how early?

Miss SPURGEON. I believe when they first start to school they should be taught what effect, for instance, aspirin would have upon them, or any other medication they take.

Mr. MEEDS. You have gotten into precisely what I wanted to follow. You are a jump ahead of me.

Miss SPURGEON. I am sorry.

Mr. MEEDS. That is perfectly all right. There are methods of teaching, aren't there, of teaching about drugs that teach not only about the use of drugs but the methods of drugs which begin at very early stages?

Miss SPURGEON. That is true. And I feel from the people we deal with that many of these individuals are very inadequate people. If you can start with the early training you reach them at an early age and I think will discourage much of the abuse that goes on.

Mr. MEEDS. It seems to me further, Miss Spurgeon, and I will ask you if you believe this also, that this is a beautiful time to begin establishing rapport with young people. First, second, third, fourth, fifth grade students. If they have been told the truth about drugs, the use and the abuse of drugs, narcotics, all the way through, when they get old enough that you start talking about the facts of what happens with amphetamines, the overdosage of certain barbiturates, they are much more apt to believe you than if you try to start when they are juniors in high school and start right off talking about this.

Would you agree with that?

Miss SPURGEON. I agree with that.
Mr. MEEDS. Thank you very much.
Mr. BRADEMAS. Mr. Hansen.

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Miss Spurgeon, for a very helpful statement. I particularly appreciate the constructive approach you take in the reported text to your statement which emphasizes to me the necessity if we are going to be successful of achieving a higher degree of success than we have thus far, with the medical profession and others who have the responsibility for the distribution, for the expense of drugs.

It would appear we could carry on an effective education program and still fall short of our mark if we are not successful in achieving a high degree of cooperation from these groups.

Miss SPURGEON. This is true.

Mr. HANSEN. I have no specific questions to ask you other than to express my appreciation to your attendance here.

Miss SPURGEON. Thank you.

Mr. BRADEMAS. I have one other question. You observed there is a lack of social stigma attached to offenders. Does that mean that people in the community from which you come don't really regard as a grave matter the use of a drug, the use of drugs?

Miss SPURGEON. I think as a whole they don't. I think many people are not aware that there is as much abuse going on as there is. I doubt I myself would know it if it weren't for the fact we deal with these people. We are amazed at the lengths some individuals will go to in order to secure the medications of drugs they want.

Mr. BRADEMAS. You have been most helpful in your testimony. We are most grateful for your having come.

We will next hear from Mr. Paul D. Tinkel, the president of the Warsaw Community Ministerial Fellowship.

STATEMENT OF PAUL D. TINKEL, PRESIDENT, WARSAW
COMMUNITY MINISTERIAL FELLOWSHIP

Reverend TINKEL. Thank you, Congressman Brademas.

As president of the Warsaw Community Ministerial Fellowship, we do have a great interest in this problem. After reading and studying House bill 9312, we as a community ministerial fellowship concur explicitly with the needs and attitudes set forth in said bill and ask for speedy passage and implementation of such.

We who live within Kosciusko County, rapidly becoming the marihuana capital of the Nation, with professional figures invading the area from as far away as Texas, Louisiana, and New Jersey, see that this can provide contact with the young people of our area, and state the specific following needs which we feel every community within the United States likewise needs.

(1) We need specially trained counselors to recognize the problem at hand in our public schools.

(2) We need specially trained juvenile officers in each court to deal promptly with juveniles already under the illicit use of drugs and alcohol.

(3) We need special education programs and activities which will inform the youngsters and adults of the consequences of the use of drugs and alcohol.

On September 12, 1969, the executive committee of the Warsaw Community Ministerial Fellowship adopted the following resolutions and again submit to you today the same.

Whereas, the executive committee of the Warsaw Community Ministerial Fellowship recognizes problems existing locally among a group of our teenage citizens;

And whereas, this problem has been aggravated by the illicit use of drugs and alcohol causing juvenile delinquency and moral degeneration;

And whereas now is the time for adult citizens to take steps to counteract the problem by providing funds for an adequate number of school investigating counselors and specific juvenile officers who have the time and the desire to deal promptly with juvenile matters as they affect both the young person and the parent.

Be it therefore resolved: That the executive committee of the Warsaw Community Ministerial Fellowship urge each budgeting body in our country to give serious consideration to appropriating sufficient funds to provide an adequate number of qualified investigating counselors in our public schools; to provide each organized police depart; ment with at least one juvenile officer; to provide each county court with a probation and juvenile officer; and to create a specific juvenile court in Kosciusko County to deal promptly and only with juvenile

matters.

It is the consensus of the executive committee of the Warsaw Community Ministerial Fellowship that it is better to expend funds for

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