Mr. AMERLING. And incorporate it in its entirety by reference in this hearing?

Mrs. KEENEY. Will the reporter tell me at what point I ceased to testify on my record of United States employment? I don't remember.

Mr. SOURWINE. Would you go forward from November of 1945? Mrs. KEENEY. Yes. In November of 1945 I was appointed a member of the German Economics Group, attached to the staff of the United States representative to the Allied Commission on Reparations. I was in Europe with the Reparations Commission from November until early in March 1946.

When I returned, I found that the Office of Foreign Economic Administration, where I had been employed, had been blanketed into the State Department, sometime during that absence, at what time I do not know.

I remained in the Office until its liquidation on June 30, 1946, and resigned from the State Department, entirely voluntary, Mr. Morris, and with honors, on July 15, 1946.

Mr. MORRIS. What was you next employment after that?

Mrs. KEENEY. My next employment after that was with the United Nations.

Mr. MORRIS. Did anyone in the State Department aid you in obtaining employment with the United Nations?

Mrs. KEENEY. That again represents a very great difficulty.
Mr. MORRIS. Will you tell us why, Mrs. Keeney?

Mrs. KEENEY. It represents this difficulty, that when I appeared as a witness before the House Committee on Un-American Activities in June 1949, I was under instructions from the Bureau of Personnel of the United Nations that on matters of appointment and all matters of internal administration I was not authorized to testify.

This comes under the staff rules and regulations with respect to unpublished information, and with respect to unpublished information a member of the Secretariat is bound under staff rule 7, even after separation from the service of the United Nations, to observe the sanctity of unpublished information.

Mr. SOURWINE. Are you now employed by the United Nations? Mrs. KEENEY. No, I am not.

Mr. SOURWINE. Do you desire to offer for the record the staff rule to which you referred?

Mrs. KEENEY. I read it to-I showed it to Mr. Morris. I will be glad to read it to you.

Mr. SOURWINE. I asked you if you desired to offer it for the record. Mrs. KEENEY. Yes.

Mr. SOURWINE. Am I correct in understanding that it is on the basis of this rule and the instructions previously made to you-

Mrs. KEENEY. No, the instructions previously made to me were on the basis of many more rules and regulations as well as articles 100, 103, and I believe article 105 of the Charter.

Mr. SOURWINE. I do not want to put any words into your mouth, but I do want to give you an opportunity to make the record complete as to why you are now declining to answer this question.

Mrs. KEENEY. I decline to answer the question because of my previous instructions under rules and regulations, articles 100, 103, and I believe also 105 of the Charter, and also specifically staff rule 7, the

pertinent line of which reads: "This obligation does not cease with separation from service."

Mr. SOURWINE. In other words, you are making the point, are you, that your instructions and these rules and regulations of the United Nations excuse you from answering the question which this committee has put to you?

Mrs. KEENEY. I am pleading that the rules and regulations bind me. Mr. SOURWINE. To the extent that you are justified in refusing to answer the committee's question, is that your contention?

Mrs. KEENEY. Yes.

Mr. SOURWINE. You are not claiming immunity under the fifth amendment with regard to this question, are you?

Mrs. KEENEY. No.

Mr. SOURWINE. You do not claim that to answer this question would tend to incriminate you?

Mrs. KEENEY. No.

Mr. SOURWINE. You are refusing to answer this question, are you, solely on the grounds that you are bound by the directive, the rules, and the regulations of the United Nations, and that being so bound you contend you are justified in refusing to answer the committee's question, is that right?

Mrs. KEENEY. I contend that I am barred from answering it.
Mr. SOURWINE. Barred?

Mrs. KEENEY. Barred.

Senator FERGUSON. Not permitted to answer?
Mrs. KEENEY. Yes, not permitted to answer.
Mr. SOURWINE. By statute, you mean?

Mrs. KEENEY. By previous

Mr. AMERLING. Mr. Chairman, may I interject here? I take it the position of the witness is that the status of the U. N. Charter having been adopted by the United States Senate has equivalent status to a treaty status, and that this rule 7 takes its authority from article 105 of that Charter.

Therefore, to that extent she is precluded from giving any information which the rule proscribes as to any unpublished information which she gained as a result of her employment at the United Nations.

Senator FERGUSON. Counsel, you also know that the witness acts at her peril on interpreting as to whether or not the question does come within the rule, and also the question as to whether or not the rule is a valid statute, now part of the Constitution, allowing witnesses to claim privilege under this.

Mr. AMERLING. Well, Mr. Chairman, she does not claim that it is part of the Constitution. She does not assert that it is part of the Constitution as a result of the adoption of the United Nations Charter by the United States Senate.

But she maintains that this is a binding rule so far as her conduct is concerned, that this is unpublished information, and that the prohibition applies to her disclosing this information to anybody.

Mr. SOURWINE. Do you adopt the statement just made by your counsel?

Mrs. KEENEY. Yes.

Mr. SOURWINE. Do you contend that this rule is more binding upon you than your obligation under the oath you have just taken to tell

the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to this commitee?

Mrs. KEENEY. That is a very good question. I would like to consult my counsel.

Mr. AMERLING. Mr. Chairman, as a reply to that question, I think it is the witness' position that this body does not have the power and should not compel her to violate that rule, and that it is not a question of superior obligation or duty.

Mr. SOURWINE. Do you adopt that?

Mrs. KEENEY. Yes.

Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the question be read back which the witness has refused to answer, and concerning which we have had colloquy since.

Senator FERGUSON. You feel that you have had a fair analysis, had the right to give a fair analysis of your reasons?

Mrs. KEENEY. Yes.

Senator FERGUSON. Do you have anything else to say about why you refuse to answer this question?

Mrs. KEENEY. You must remember, Mr. Ferguson, that I am a layman; I am not an international lawyer.

My conduct in this matter is regulated, originally, by specific instructions from the Bureau of Personnel, which I assume had the benefit of the advice of international lawyers.

Mr. SOURWINE. Is it not true that you are not taking the position you are taking here solely on the basis of your own assumption as to what the law is, but that you are here with counsel and that you have had advice of counsel in this matter?

Mrs. KEENEY. Yes, I have had advice of counsel in this matter, but it rests, of course, my answer rests, upon instructions from which I do not feel that I can be absolved.

Mr. SOURWINE. And your refusal, you recognize, as the Chair has pointed out, is your own and the consequences of that refusal will rest upon you and not upon your counsel? Do you recognize that?

Senator FERGUSON. That is why I said you do it at your peril. That is a statement that we lawyers use because we want it well understood. Mr. SOURWINE. Your refusal is your own, is it?

Senator FERGUSON. Your counsel cannot claim privilege.
Mrs. KEENEY. I realize that.

Mr. SOURWINE. You are not claiming privilege, are you?

Mrs. KEENEY. No, I am not.

Mr. SOURWINE. You are not claiming that this will incriminate? Senator FERGUSON. The right to refuse to answer, she is claiming that, is it not?

Mr. SOURWINE. The witness is simply refusing to answer on the ground that the committee has no power to compel her to answer and should not compel her to answer because she is bound by rules, regulations, and orders previously received by the United Nations, is that correct?

Mrs. KEENEY. Yes.

Mr. AMERLING. Can I supplement that statement, then. Her present understanding of her obligations in this respect are based upon the official instructions which were originally given to her which covered precisely this area of information. So that it is on the basis

of having previously gotten official rulings and instructions from the UN personnel, and the presumption that they understand the coverage and the intent, or intended coverage, of that section that she takes the position she presently takes.

Mr. SOURWINE. Do you adopt that as your answer?

Mrs. KEENEY. Yes.

Mr. SOURWINE. Have you considered the question of whether or not the United Nation treaty is self-executing?

Mrs. KEENEY. I would be incapable of answering that question be cause I do not understand it.

Mr. SOURWINE. All right. Mr. Chairman, may I ask that the question which the witness refused to answer be read back?

Senator FERGUSON. Read the question to the witness. (The question was read by the reporter as follows:)

Mr. MORRIS. Did anyone in the State Department aid you in obtaining em ployment with the United Nations?

Mr. SOURWINE. Do you still decline to answer that question for the reasons you have given and in light of the discussion which has taken place?

Mrs. KEENEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Chairman, I request that the witness be directed to answer that question.

Senator FERGUSON. The Chair now, Madam, orders you to answer the question.

Mrs. KEENEY. May I confer with my counsel?

Senator FERGUSON. Yes.

Mrs. KEENEY (after consultation). With all due respect to you, Senator Ferguson, and to the powers of the United States Senate, I feel that for the reasons I have already stated I must decline to answer that question.

Senator FERGUSON. You may call the next witness. I will excuse this witness.

Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Deane will be the next witness.

TESTIMONY OF HUGH GORDON DEANE, JR., BRONXVILLE, N. Y ACCOMPANIED BY LEONARD BOUDIN, ESQ., NEW YORK, N. Y.

Senator FERGUSON. All right, Mr. Deane.

Mr. MORRIS. Will you give your full name and address to the reporter?

Mr. DEANE. Hugh Gordon Deane, Jr., 790 Bronx River Road Bronxville, N. Y.

Mr. MORRIS. What is your present occupation, Mr. Deane?

Mr. DEANE. I am on the staff of the New York Daily Compass. Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Deane, you have been active in the Institute of Pacific Relations?

Mr. DEANE. No; I have not been active in the Institute of Paci Relations. I have been a member for some time, and I have ha several other minor connections with it, but I haven't been active in it I haven't been employed by the institute, nor with one exception have! contributed to its publications.

Senator FERGUSON. One publication, you did contribute to it?

Mr. DEANE. Yes. I wrote one article on request for the Far Eastern Review, concerning the Chinese industrial cooperatives in 1941. After I saw how the manuscript had been edited and revised, I asked that my name be removed from the published version.

My name was printed in a footnote saying that I had contributed material. I took this step because I had written an article friendly to the Chinese industrial cooperatives, and the manuscript as it was prepared for publication was hostile to the Chinese industrial cooperatives.

Senator FERGUSON. Yours was pro?

Mr. DEANE. Mine was pro; yes.

Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Deane, have you been an employee of the Coordinator of Information?

Mr. DEANE. Yes; I have.

Mr. MORRIS. When were you an employee of the Coordinator of Information?

Mr. DEANE. I was an employee from December 1941 until December 1942.

Mr. MORRIS. How did you obtain that position?

Mr. DEANE. I first applied for a general job with the Government, through the Civil Service Commission. Later I was interviewed by the Personnel Office of the Coordinator of Information, and by Mr. Irving Pflamm in whose section I later worked.

Mr. MORRIS. While you worked for the Coordinator of Information, Mr. Deane, did you ask the Institute of Pacific Relations to aid. you in your programing?

Mr. DEANE. Yes; I did. At the direction of my superiors, whose names I don't recall

Mr. MORRIS. I wish you would try to recall the names of your superiors, Mr. Deane. Who directed you to get aid from the Institute of Pacific Relations?

Mr. DEANE. I don't remember which person it was above me who directed me to do this.

Mr. MORRIS. Who were the persons above you?

Mr. DEANE. Mr. Pflamm

Senator FERGUSON. Do you know his first name?
Mr. DEANE. Irving Pflamm, and Carl Crow.

Senator FERGUSON. How do you spell that last name?

Mr. DEANE. C-r-o-w. There were quite a number of other persons who were above me in the hierarchy, since I was at the very bottom. of it.

Mr. MORRIS. Were you at that time a member of the Institute of Pacific Relations?

Mr. DEANE. I believe I was then a member of the institute.

Mr. MORRIS. Did you know Miss Miriam Farley at that time?

Mr. DEANE. Yes; I did.

Mr. MORRIS. How well did you know Miss Miriam Farley?

Mr. DEANE. I, at that time, had been back from China for some months, and I had met her during those months.

She was, I believe, one of the persons to whom I asked help at the direction of my superiors when we were trying to get the institute to cooperate in the preparation of propaganda broadcasts to Asia, some of which I was writing.