Mr. MORRIS. But your further testimony is that you cannot recall whether or not you did meet him in the State Department; is that right? Mr. ROSINGER. That is correct. Mr. MORRIS. Therefore you are not sure that you have met him only once in your life? Mr. ROSINGER. No; it may have been twice. Senator FERGUSON. Did you ever visit Lt. Andrew Roth in the State Department? Mr. ROSINGER. I must respectfully decline to answer, relying on the constitutional privilege in the fifth amendment to the Constitution. Senator FERGUSON. You know whom I am talking about, a former lieutenant in the United States Navy? You understand about whom I was speaking? Mr. ROSINGER. I stand on my answer. Mr. MORRIS. Did you know an assistant of John Carter Vincent in the State Department named Julian Friedman? Mr. ROSINGER. I respectfully decline to answer, relying on the .constitutional privilege in the fifth amendment to the Constitution. Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Mandel, will you read into the record, particularly apropos of this particular point, an excerpt of a personal statement of John S. Service as appeared before the Loyalty Board? Will you identify the source, Mr. Mandel, as you read it into the record? Mr. MANDEL. This is taken from a transcript of proceedings before the Loyalty Security Board in the case of John Stewart Service in the State Department: Mr. MORRIS. Could you give the document number on that? Mr. MANDEL. This is taken from page 2234 of the hearings before a subcommittee of the Committee on Foreign Relations of the United States Senate, part II, appendix: STATEMENT OF JOHN STEWART SERVICE During my period of consultation after my return to the Department on April 12, 1945, I saw a number of newspapermen and writers on China. This was in the normal course of events, and a part of the usual function of officers on consultations, who have newly returned from the field and are in a position to give background information. One of the people I remember seeing was Lawrence Rosinger of the Foreign Policy Association. I recall that he was having an interview with one of the officers in the Division of Chinese Affairs, and as their discussion apparently concerned recent events in China, I was called in to answer some questions. Mr. MORRIS. Will you stop there? Does that refresh your recollection, Mr. Rosinger? Mr. ROSINGER. I wonder whether Mr. Mandel could read the whole excerpt? Mr. MANDEL (reading): Another contact, I remember, was Raymond Swing, who was referred to me by my superior, Mr. Vincent, for background information in regard to some news reports of the day. Mr. ROSINGER. Have you read everything that applies to me? 88348-52-pt. 8—2 Mr. MORRIS. Anything about that particular episode. After discussing the particular point, Mr. Swing asked me for comment on General Hurley and an opinion as to whether his negotiations were proceeding successfully. This I declined to discuss, and referred him back to Mr. Vincent. Another press contact was with two members of the editorial staff of Fortune magazine, which was preparing an exhaustive article on China. These researchers had approached General Olmstead, who was G-5 on General Wedemeyer's staff and was then in Washington. General Olmstead had referred them to me for political background. I mention these instances, and I know there were many others, as indication that it was current policy to permit responsible officers to give background information to the press. At this time, of course, I had just returned from Yenan, and was in possession of a great deal of recent information of great interest. Shortly after my arrival I received an invitation to meet on an off-the-record basis, with the research staff of the Institute of Pacific Relations in New York. This invitation was in a brief letter addressed to me by Edward C. Carter. I discussed it with Mr. E. F. Stanton, Deputy, and then Acting Director of FE, who approved my accepting. This meeting with IPR took place on April 25. I believe there were 10 or 12 people present. Practically all of them were writers, including T. A. Bissen, Lawrence Rosinger, and a New Zealander named Belshaw. Mr. MORRIS. That is all that relates to you, Mr. Rosinger. Mr. ROSINGER. May I see that a minute, please? Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, the reading of that document brings out a conflict between Mr. Rosinger's testimony, where he said he had never met Mr. Service. Mr. BOUDIN. Mr. Rosinger did not say he had never met Mr. Service. Did you ever visit John S. Service in the State Department? Mr. ROSINGER. That represents a change of question. Actually, what Mr. Mandel read indicated Service had testified that I was in the State Department, that he happened in, which would be a different situation. I must still say I don't recall the incident in the State Department, but it could have happened. Mr. MORRIS. Who was the visitor mentioned in the testimony of Mr. Service that you were visiting at that time? Mr. ROSINGER. I don't have the faintest recollection at the moment. What is the date of that? Does he give the date of that? Mr. MANDEL. On or about April 12, 1945. Mr. ROSINGER. I don't know. Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Service says: One of the people I remember seeing is Lawrence Rosinger, of the Foreign Policy Association. I recall he was having an interview with one of the officers in the Office of Chinese Affairs. Do you remember that incident? Mr. ROSINGER. I don't, but it is possible. Mr. MORRIS. Did you know any officers in the Division of Chinese Affairs? You were then an expert on China, Mr. Rosinger. Mr. ROSINGER. There wouldn't be any point in speculating. Mr. MORRIS. The question is, Did you know any officers in the Division of Chinese Affairs, Mr. Rosinger? Mr. ROSINGER. I don't recall. Mr. BOUDIN. Is this word "officers"? Mr. MORRIS. I am using the language of the testimony here, "e-r-s." Mr. CHAIRMAN. I submit that the witness may not be responding to the questions in this case, inasmuch as at this time he was a fareastern expert, and we have testimony here-at least Mr. Service's statement, to the effect that Mr. Rosinger visited with one of the officers in the Division of Chinese Affairs. I have asked Mr. Rosinger if he knew at that time any officers in the Division of Chinese Affairs. He says he cannot remember. Mr. ROSINGER. Do you have a list of the officers? I would be glad to look at such a list. The State Department went through a number of reorganizations. It is hard to recollect exactly what a position a person may have been in at a particular time. Mr. MORRIS. Did you know Mr. Julian Friedman? Mr. ROSINGER. I have already invoked the privilege on that. Mr. MORRIS. I am not trying to enumerate officers, while they are getting a complete list of those who were in the Office or Division of Chinese Affairs. Do you know Mr. Ringwalt? Mr. ROSINGER. I don't have any recollection of ever meeting him. Mr. ROSINGER. I have already said, I believe, I don't. Mr. ROSINGER. I don't believe I have ever met him. May I make one point? You mentioned that my own work has been that of a specialist in the far eastern field. I thing it should be apparent from the small number of visits as I testified before, that this work wasn't primarily a question of personal contact, and that it really was a question of research and study in printed material, some conversations, and that kind of thing. Senator FERGUSON. Did you write or telegraph or telephone to officers in the State Department? Mr. ROSINGER. I can't say that I never did, but it would not have been a common occurrence. It would not have been the kind of thing I did every week or even every month. Senator FERGUSON. Did State Department officials come to you cutside of the State Department to confer with you? Mr. ROSINGER. I don't believe anybody ever did. They wouldn't have been coming to me and saying "What shall we do about this?" or "What shall we do about that?" There was no such relationship. Mr. MORRIS. I give you the organization of the Department of State, April 1, 1945, and I call your attention to page 11, under the heading: "Division of Chinese Affairs." You will see there the names of eight officers. Will you tell us which of those officers you knew personally? Mr. ROSINGER. I have already testified that I had met John Carter Vincent at the IPR conference earlier in that year. I have invoked the privilege on one other person. Mr. MORRIS. That is Mr. Friedman? Mr. ROSINGER. That is right. I have no recollection of ever having met any of the other people listed here. Mr. MORRIS. According to your testimony, then, if you were visiting an officer in the Division of Chinese Affairs at that time it would only be Mr. Friedman or John Carter Vincent; is that not right, Mr. Rosinger? He is testifying he has not met any of the officers in the Division of Chinese Affairs, and there is testimony to the effect that he was visiting an officer in the Division of Chinese Affairs. It must have been one of those two officers. Mr. BOUDIN. He did not testify he was visiting officers in the Division of Chinese Affairs. You are incorporating Service's testimony. The witness stated that he had no recollection. He is not disputing it, because Mr. Service was evidently not making it up. Mr. MORRIS. I would like the witness to be answering the questions, no counsel. Senator FERGUSON. Yes. You answer the question. Mr. ROSINGER. With respect to one of these people, I have invoked the privilege. My feeling is that you would have to know the exact organization of that Division at that time. This is in a book. Nobody can tell what shifts were made. Nobody can tell whether somebody who is not technically in this Division, but was concerned with China work, might have been the person I was visiting, so that if one could be sure that this was the precise set-up and that there was no confusion in Mr. Service's mind, then I suppose the conclusion would follow. Mr. MORRIS. Is it your testimony that you have no other recollection about visiting officers in the Division of Chinese Affairs? Mr. ROSINGER. I didn't testify to that effect. I don't believe you asked me that question. You asked me only in relation to this particular time. Mr. MORRIS. That is right. That is what I am asking about, in connection with this particular incident mentioned by Mr. Service. Mr. ROSINGER. In relation to this particular incident, I have no recollection of the person I visited. Mr. MORRIS. How often have you met John S. Service? Mr. ROSINGER. If we assume that Mr. Service's statement is correct as I have said, I don't have any recollection, but I don't want to challenge it-if we assume that is correct, my conclusion would be twice, because he mentioned another occasion. Mr. MORRIS. So, you recall no other episodes in meeting Mr. Service, other than the two he has testified to? Mr. ROSINGER. No; I do not. Mr. MORRIS. How well do you know Mr. Jessup, Mr. Rosinger! Mr. ROSINGER. Very slightly. Mr. MORRIS. Will you amplify on that, please? Mr. ROSINGER. I met him in connection with my IPR work. That is, when I was on the IPR staff he was at certain times also connected with the IPR. Mr. MORRIS. How frequently did you meet him on those occasions? Mr. ROSINGER. I think we can put it this way: I was at the IPR in 1939-40. I believe he was probably at the Hot Springs conference of the IPR that November and December, at which I was a recorder. So, I must have seen him on that occasion. Outside of that, the chances are I have seen him twice, three times, during the year, and then, casually. He would have dropped into the office. You must remember, I was a very junior person at that time, both in age and in position, in the IPR, and the fact of his dropping in and passing me, saying a word or two, wouldn't in itself mean anything. Mr. MORRIS. Is it your testimony you did not know him very well, Mr. Rosinger? Mr. ROSINGER. That is right. Mr. MORRIS. What I am trying to do is reconcile your testimony about your acquaintance with Mr. Jessup with the fact that when you wrote him a memorandum you addressed him "Dear Phil". That would seem to be in contradiction to what you are giving us now. Mr. ROSINGER. That is standard IPR practice. After you are in the organization 1 week you are calling everybody by their first name. Senator FERGUSON. Did you know Frederick Vanderbilt Field in the Institute of Pacific Relations? Mr. ROSINGER. I respectfully decline to answer, relying on the constitutional privilege in the fifth amendment to the Constitution. Senator FERGUSON. Did you ever address any communications to Field as "Dear Fred"? Mr. ROSINGER. I respectfully decline to answer, relying on the constitutional privilege in the fifth amendment to the Constitution. Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to point out that I addressed a question to Mr. Rosinger in connection with a designation that he used in correspondence. I don't think he answered the question. He suggested that there was a general practice within the Institute of Pacific Relations that after a week everybody called everybody else by his first name. Mr. ROSINGER. That was not an inflexible rule, but it might have been 2 weeks. Mr. MORRIS. Did they also address letters the same way, Mr. Rosinger? Mr. ROSINGER. Yes. It was not just personal conversation, letters, memoranda, anything of that sort. Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, that is at variance with the understanding that I am sure Mr. Mendel and I have with respect to the letters in the Institute of Pacific Relations. Senator FERGUSON. Do you know how many times you wrote Jessup? Mr. ROSINGER. No; I do not. Senator FERGUSON. Was it more than once? Mr. ROSINGER. I assume so. Senator FERGUSON. He was connected with the Institute of Pacific Relations when you were there? Mr. ROSINGER. I can't say that he was, at all times. He was, in 1939-40. Senator FERGUSON. You were there at that time? Mr. ROSINGER. That is right. He was there at that time. Mr. ROSINGER. I can't really answer, because the IPR at that time was located in the building that was like a maze. It was so intricate in |