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LEGISLATIVE BRANCH APPROPRIATIONS

FOR 1996

HEARINGS

BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

SUBCOMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE APPROPRIATIONS

RON PACKARD, California, Chairman
C. W. BILL YOUNG, Florida

VIC FAZIO, California
CHARLES H. TAYLOR, North Carolina RAY THORNTON, Arkansas
DAN MILLER, Florida

JULIAN C. DIXON, California
ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi
NOTE: Under Committee Rules, Mr. Livingston, as Chairman of the Full Committee, and Mr. Obey, as Ranking
Minority Member of the Full Committee, are authorized to sit as Members of all Subcommittees.

EDWARD E. LOMBARD, Staff Assistant

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For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, DC 20402

ISBN 0-16-047074-9

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COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

BOB LIVINGSTON, Louisiana, Chairman JOSEPH M. MCDADE, Pennsylvania

DAVID R. OBEY, Wisconsin JOHN T. MYERS, Indiana

SIDNEY R. YATES, Illinois C. W. BILL YOUNG, Florida

LOUIS STOKES, Ohio RALPH REGULA, Ohio

TOM BEVILL, Alabama JERRY LEWIS, California

JOHN P. MURTHA, Pennsylvania JOHN EDWARD PORTER, Illinois

CHARLES WILSON, Texas HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky

NORMAN D. DICKS, Washington JOE SKEEN, New Mexico

MARTIN OLAV SABO, Minnesota FRANK R. WOLF, Virginia

JULIAN C. DIXON, California TOM DELAY, Texas

VIC FAZIO, California JIM KOLBE, Arizona

W. G. (BILL) HEFNER, North Carolina BARBARA F. VUCANOVICH, Nevada STENY H. HOYER, Maryland JIM LIGHTFOOT, lowa

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois RON PACKARD, California

RONALD D. COLEMAN, Texas SONNY CALLAHAN, Alabama

ALAN B. MOLLOHAN, West Virginia JAMES T. WALSH, New York

JIM CHAPMAN, Texas CHARLES H. TAYLOR, North Carolina MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio DAVID L. HOBSON, Ohio

DAVID E. SKAGGS, Colorado ERNEST J. ISTOOK, JR., Oklahoma

NANCY PELOSI, California HENRY BONILLA, Texas

PETER J. VISCLOSKY, Indiana JOE KNOLLENBERG, Michigan

THOMAS M. FOGLIETTA, Pennsylvania DAN MILLER, Florida

ESTEBAN EDWARD TORRES, California JAY DICKEY, Arkansas

NITA M. LOWEY, New York
JACK KINGSTON, Georgia

RAY THORNTON, Arkansas
FRANK RIGGS, California
RODNEY P. FRELINGHUYSEN, New Jersey
ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi
MICHAEL P. FORBES, New York
GEORGE R. NETHERCUTT, JR., Washington
JIM BUNN, Oregon
MARK W. NEUMANN, Wisconsin

JAMES W. DYER, Clerk and Staff Director

LEGISLATIVE BRANCH APPROPRIATIONS FOR

FISCAL YEAR 1996

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1995. Mr. PACKARD. Ladies and gentlemen, I think we will start the hearing. There are others coming but we would prefer not to wait. We have gotten verbal approval from the Minority Leadership of the committee that they would not object to us going ahead.

We will commence our hearing. This is the first of our hearings for the Legislative Branch agencies that come under the jurisdiction of this committee. We will be having hearings today and tomorrow, and then we will be having hearings Wednesday and Thursday of next week. During today and the other three days, we will be hearing the appropriations requests of all of the agencies that come within the jurisdiction of this committee.

Before we begin this hearing, I would like to put in the record the names of the Members of the subcommittee. There is myself, Ron Packard, the subcommittee chairman; and then Bill Young from Florida. Several of these Members are Chairmen of other subcommittees or Ranking Members, so sporadically they will be able to come, they will come and go as they need to.

Bill Young from Florida is the Vice Chairman of the subcommittee; Charles Taylor from North Carolina served last year, will be continuing to serve on the subcommittee; Dan Miller from Florida; Roger Wicker from Mississippi is on the committee. These are the Republicans.

On the Minority side, Vic Fazio will be the Ranking Minority Member, from California. We are very pleased to have Vic continue on this committee because he has had a significant amount of experience, and we appreciate that experience. Ray Thornton from Arkansas; and Julian Dixon from California.

We also will have Bob Livingston with us off and on. He is a Member of this subcommittee, from Louisiana, and is the Chairman of the full committee.

David Obey from Wisconsin is also going to be a Member of this subcommittee, the Ranking Minority Member of the full committee. They will be in and out as they can attend.

I would like to insert into the record at this point the actual jurisdiction of this committee. I won't read that jurisdiction, but it establishes the jurisdiction of the agencies that come under this subcommittee. [The information follows:)

SUBCOMMITTEE JURISDICTION LEGISLATIVE BRANCH
House of Representatives.
Joint Items.

Architect of the Capitol (Except Senate items).
Botanic Garden.
Congressional Budget Office.
Copyright Royalty

Tribunal.
General Accounting Office.
Government Printing Office.
John C. Stennis Center.

Library of Congress: Congressional Research Service; National Film Preservation Board.

Office of Technology Assessment.
United States Capitol Preservation Commission.

CONGRESSIONAL OPERATIONS
Mr. PACKARD. The budget that we are going to consider in this
subcommittee totals $2.1 billion. The total does not include the
Senate items. That will be considered by that body.

The portion of this budget that will be considered by this subcommittee, $1.2 billion, is for congressional operations only. That encompasses the House, the joint committees, the Capitol Police, and a few other small House/Senate entities, and then there are the Congressional Budget Office, the Office of Technology Assessment, the Architect of the Capitol, the Congressional Research Service, and Congressional Printing.

The balance of the funds requested, which total $836 million, approximately, will support statutory and administrative activities of the Legislative Branch that are performed for the Executive Branch and for the public at large.

These activities include such agencies as the Library of Congress, Superintendent of Documents, the Botanic Gardens, the Copyright Office, the Books for the Blind and Physically Handicapped Program, and the General Accounting Office.

As you see, Charles Taylor, whom we have already introduced by listing all the Members, has arrived, and we are grateful for him being with us.

We also have Mr. Thornton. It is a pleasure to have you with us also.

Mr. THORNTON. Pleasure to be with you.

Mr. PACKARD. Now we have more than one Member to start this meeting. There is also a Government Printing Office revolving fund, and that is the method the GPO uses to provide printing services for the entire Federal Government. That is almost $1 billion that is not scored against this bill, because it is derived from charges and revenues from other agency appropriations.

The actual level of operations covered by the agencies in this legislative bill, therefore, is not $2.1 billion but over $3.8 billion estimated for fiscal year 1996. So the sum and scope of these activities are much larger than most would realize.

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SUBCOMMITTEE FY 1996 THEME

As we go through these hearings, which begin today, we will review each request carefully and ask whether or not it is essential to this is very important, ladies and gentlemen, this is going to be the central theme of this subcommittee—we will be asking, as we review the budget submittal by each of the agencies in our jurisdiction, whether the activities that they are proposing are absolutely essential to the function of their agency, and if it is essential to government service.

Can it be cut back? Can it be eliminated? Is there duplication with other agencies? These are crucial questions that I think you will see as a constant theme moving through our hearings.

Two weeks ago we had the first joint hearing with the House and Senate legislative subcommittees ever held. We had a number of witnesses testify on how we might downsize or right-size legislative agencies. I know that many of these ideas will surface again as we proceed through these hearings.

Some of them were very good proposals, and we want to get the thinking of the agencies and the management of the agencies in regard to some of those thoughts. Their point of view will be valuable input to the Members of this subcommittee.

SIGNIFICANT BUDGET CHANGES ANTICIPATED

In any case, there will be significant changes in the budgets that will be presented to the committee. Because of the deadlines imposed in formulating the Federal budget, many of the funding requests reflected the plans of the 103rd Congress.

Many of the agencies, as they have prepared their budgets, based their budget proposals on the experience of last Congress, and those budgets that were prepared, in many instances, will be submitted. But there will be changes, because this is a new Congress, and many of the fundamentals will be different than they were before the November 8th election.

So the Committee will review these legislative budget proposals with great interest, recognizing that there will be perhaps some substantial changes from the submittals that will be made to us.

Again, we are grateful to have each of you here. Although this is a small room, it does create a very good atmosphere to hold the kind of hearings we hold on this subcommittee.

Again, we are pleased to have Mr. Thornton with us.
Do you have a statement, Mr. Thornton?

EFFICIENCY VS. EFFECTIVENESS
Mr. THORNTON. Mr. Chairman, I will be very brief.

I want to echo some of the thoughts you have expressed in your statement. This is a great opportunity for the Legislative Branch to set an example for other entities of government as to how we can best do the job that is set for us in an effective and efficient way.

I think it is important in making that case to recognize Peter Drucker's distinction between effectiveness and efficiency. Peter Drucker said efficiency is doing things right; effectiveness is doing right things.

And the thing that we need to do is to discover how you can help us do things right for the American people. This does not necessarily mean that we might eliminate a function just to save money if it will cost the people more in terms of effectiveness in government.

And I do think we have a great opportunity, Mr. Chairman, to set an example for other entities of government. I look forward to these hearings.

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