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our ability that objective: namely, that upon redevelopment, the needs of these people in low incomes must be given a preference.

Senator DOUGLAS. May I ask you this: Do you have any figures on the number of people-perhaps I am asking the question over againwho have been displaced in these 52 slum clearance projects? Mr. COLE. We think we can develop that, sir.

Senator DOUGLAS. If you should find that the vastly larger number of people have been displaced than Congress and the administration have offered opportunity for rehousing, then the system is out of balance.

Mr. COLE. I think it is

Senator ROBERTSON. I think clearance in Virginia has been a little more favorable than the national average. We don't have many millionaires in Virginia. We have our poor people, but maybe not as many slums as some places. It is my understanding in our biggest slum clearances and projects in the Norfolk area, plans have been made or are in the process of being made to house every one of the displaced persons. Isn't that true?

Mr. COLE. Yes. That is true. The present law requires that.
Senator IVES. What are you going to put them in?

Mr. COLE. Are you talking about the specific case he mentioned?
Senator IVES. The displaced persons you are talking about.

Mr. COLE. Sir, the problem of displaced persons and the relocation of these displaced persons is one of the most complex, difficult, and, may I say, sometimes almost insoluble problems. We are trying to do everything within our power, and I think that this program develops the best possible approach, under existing circumstances, which will meet the problem.

The Senator, of course, is interested in New York City-

Senator IVES. Not alone New York. I am interested in every large city that has this problem.

Mr. COLE. That means that those people who are displaced under this program will be given first preference in the public housing that is built. Personally, I do not believe that we should say that the public housing program is the only program available, even to big cities, to relocate their people or relocate the displaced people. Certainly, the present law does not contemplate that. I think this bill does offer some assistance to the great cities in the great urban areas, to help relocate their people through first, public housing, secondly, through the rehabilitation of existing dwellings under 221, under the expansion of the 207 and 213 cooperative housing.

Senator IVES. These people I am talking about wouldn't be able to do anything under cooperative housing.

Mr. COLE. Some of them would, sir.

Senator IVES. I have a table in front of me, "Incomes of Families Admitted to Public Housing." You have probably seen it.

Mr. COLE, Yes.

Senator IVES. It comes out of the President's Advisory Committee, your own Committee's report.

Mr. COLE. I am familiar with it.

(The table referred to follows:)

Income of families in local slum clearance project areas, continental United States: 99 of 112 projects approved for final planning or development as of Sept. 30, 1953

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! Exclusive of 13 projects as follows: 11 projects reporting 2,073 total families; further data on income not available; 1 predominantly open project reporting no families on site; 1 project for which population data are not available.

Income of families in local slum clearance project areas, Hawaii and Puerto Rico: 21 of 22 projects approved for final planning or development as of Sept. 30, 1953

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Senator IVES. It shows that the average income of families living in public housing today is around $1785.

Mr. COLE. Senator, may I say, though, that if my memory serves me correctly, that 16 percent of those now living in public housing pay a rent of $50 or more a month.

Again, I don't say to you that this will solve all of the problem. This is not a perfect piece of legislation. What we are saying is we are making a long step in the right direction.

As I said to one of the other Senators here, I do not accept the theory that the only means of relocating people displaced from slum areas is through public housing. I don't accept that. I do say to you, and to those who approve and disapprove of public housing, that when we have a program of slum clearance, urban redevelopment and development which will displace low-income people not able to buy a house or pay a big rent, then the Federal Government does have a responsibility to assist those people. How it is done

Senator IVES. You haven't worked that out yet?

Mr. COLE. I have presented a problem; if you are talking to me about the numbers of public-housing units, then that is another problem.

Senator IVES. You have a problem on your hands that you have to face and solve. You have these people that can't afford to pay rent. They can't afford to buy in cooperatives. The only answer I know is public housing.

Senator ROBERTSON. What is your plan-to build houses in New York for the Puerto Ricans who come to New York that don't have a hole in the ground like a fox or a nest in the tree like the birds? Senator IVES. Would you like them to come to Virginia?

Mr. COLE. We are interested in meeting this fairly and honestly and not backing away from it. We are saying to you we are recommending public housing and we think public housing is needed and that is one method by which we suggest it be met.

Now, if the Congress believes that we need more that 35,000 a year, Congress would approve that. Quite truthfully-I am being very frank about it-I don't know whether Congress would permit more than 35,000 units a year. We are not putting the burden back upon the Congress.

Senator IVES. I am not trying to find out what the Congress will permit. I want your thoughts on it, Mr. Cole.

Mr. COLE. My thought are these, very honestly. My thoughts are if we are permitted to build 35,000 units a year for the next 4 years, we will have met the basic bedrock problem, even in New York City, sir. We will not have satisfied everyone involved. We will not have done a perfect job with doing it, but my approach is to do the best that we can under the existing circumstances, to accomplish the things which you want to accomplish.

Senator IVES. You will not have met the problem. You will have started to meet it.

Mr. COLE. Senator, I would like to say to you that the problem can be and will be met completely and satisfactorily. I can't say that. I am frank to say it isn't a perfect answer to it. I just don't believe we have a perfect answer to it. I say to you on the basis, of the information we have, we are trying to do the best job we can to

meet this objective. I think it will go a long way toward meeting it. Senator DOUGLAS. Mr. Cole, I am not trying to bait you-Senator BENNETT. Senator, before you start again, we have nearly all the members of the committee present, and this is a good time to announce that the afternoon session will be held at 2:30 in room G-16, which is in the Interstate and Foreign Commerce Committee hearing room. It is on the gallery floor of the Senate wing of the Capitol, immediately behind the Senate Chamber to the west. That is at 2:30, G-16. Thank you very much. Senator DOUGLAS. Mr. a total of 800,000 housing over a period of 6 years. and are now occupied?

Cole, the Housing Act of 1949 authorized. units, public-housing units, be distributed How many have actually been constructed

Mr. COLE. And are now being occupied-I can tell you first how many will have been constructed at the end of this fiscal year with those under construction; it will be around 400,000 under the entire program-not under the 1949 program-under the entire publichousing program.

Senator DOUGLAS. I mean under the 1949 program.

Mr. SLUSSER. Under the 1949 program, 118,686.

Senator DOUGLAS. 118,000?

Mr. SLUSSER. 118,686.

Senator DOUGLAS. 119,000, let's say.

Mr. COLE. Approximately.

Senator DOUGLAS. Construction will have been completed?

Mr. SLUSSER. Those are completed. There are under construction 59,000

Senator DOUGLAS. Additional?

Mr. SLUSSER. Yes.

Senator DOUGLAS. 59,000 are under construction. That makes 178,000.

Mr. SLUSSER. 177,999.

Senator DOUGLAS. Concede me one, will you?

Now, how many have been authorized, funds allocated, all red tape cleared, but construction not started?

Mr. SLUSSER. On December 30, 1953, 49,230. On June 30, 1954 (after this year's construction allocation is completed), 35,810 will remain under annual contribution contract but not placed under construction. That is December 30.

Senator DOUGLAS. Or a total of 227,000, plus 100 or so.

Mr. SLUSSER. Yes. All of these are completed, under construction, or under contract. But construction cannot be started on 35,810 of them. Thus the figure would be 191,419.

Senator DOUGLAS. Those probably will not be completed before June 30, 1955; is that right?

Mr. SLUSSER. There will be left 35,810 units that are under annual contribution contract.

Senator BENNETT. Let's start over again on that.

Senator DOUGLAS. I am working on a somewhat different basis. Of the 49,000 for which funds have been set aside and all red tape cleared, but construction not started, those will not be finished before 15 months, will they? So that it is safe to say that the full num

ber of 227,000 will be finished on the 1st of July 1955, but no more than that number, in all probability?

Mr. SLUSSER. That is right. If we are given authorization to put under construction the 35,810 units which will be under contract but not under construction on June 30, 1954.

Senator DOUGLAS. I would like to point out, if I may, that we authorized 810,000 to be completed by the 1st of July 1955; that this was a solemn decision on the part of Congress; that in practice, only about 27 percent of the program will have been fulfilled.

There has been a tremendous gap between the promises held out in 1949 act and the actual performance.

Mr. Cole stated that he believed that this 227,000, plus the 35,000 for each of the 4 successive years, or a total of 140,000 more, which would bring to 367,000-what he is saying, in effect, was that the Housing Act of 1949 overshot its mark; that it provided a larger number of housing units than were actually needed by the Nation.

I have great respect for you, Mr. Cole, in spite of the passages at arms which we have had in the past. I want to say that I think the Housing Act of 1949 was correct; that we had, at a minimum, 3 million people living in conditions of squalor, physical degradation, and a major surgical operation was needed, and that it was the solemn intent of Congress to do this.

The will of Congress has been balked by the appropriations committees, by certain changes in political climate which have occurred, et cetera, but I want to say that I, personally, stand on the Housing Act of 1949 and the goals of the Housing Act of 1949. While I don't impugn your good faith at all, I am sorry to see that you think that Housing Act of 1949 provided for at least twice as much housing as the basic bedrock needs.

Mr. COLE. Senator, may I comment?

We had a discussion about a year ago on somewhat of this same issue.

Senator DOUGLAS. That is right.

Mr. COLE. It is not my position at this time to question the 810,000 authorization. The decision to suggest to the Congress that 35,000 units be constructed each year for the next 4 years is not based primarily upon that consideration-by that I mean is not based upon a disapproval or disagreement with the Congress' decision to permit the 810,000 units.

Senator DOUGLAS. What was it based on?

Mr. COLE. There were a number of reasons, sir. One of the reasons is that in this program, we now have a new approach. It will not meet some needs in some cities; it will not meet many needs of many people.

Senator DOUGLAS. You mean section 221?

Mr. COLE. Section 221, plus other things.

Senator DOUGLAS. I would like to point out, if you don't mind being interrupted, because that is an unfair method of exercising a Senator's privilege, but I was much interested in the testimony of Mr. Hollyday yesterday, who is the father, really, of section 221, in which he said that was in no sense a substitute for public housing.

Mr. COLE. I said so, too. We have never suggested or implied that section 221 is a substitute for public housing.

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