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INTERSTATE SHIPMENT OF FIREARMS

HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
UNITED STATES SENATE

EIGHTY-EIGHTH CONGRESS

FIRST AND SECOND SESSIONS

ON

S. 1975

A BILL TO AMEND THE FEDERAL FIREARMS ACT

AND

S. 2345

A BILL TO AMEND THE FEDERAL FIREARMS ACT TO FURTHER
RESTRICT THE USE OF INSTRUMENTALITIES OF INTERSTATE
OR FOREIGN COMMERCE FOR THE ACQUISITION OF FIREARMS

FOR UNLAWFUL PURPOSES

DECEMBER 13 AND 18, 1963; JANUARY 23, 24, AND 30, AND

MARCH 4, 1964

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U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 1964

29-119

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COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE

WARREN G. MAGNUSON, Washington, Chairman JOHN O. PASTORE, Rhode Island

NORRIS COTTON, New Hampshire A. S. MIKE MONRONEY, Oklahoma THRUSTON B. MORTON, Kentucky STROM THURMOND, South Carolina HUGH SCOTT, Pennsylvania FRANK J. LAUSCHE, Ohio

WINSTON L. PROUTY, Vermont RALPH YARBOROUGH, Texas

J. GLENN BEALL, Maryland
CLAIR ENGLE, California
E. L. BARTLETT, Alaska
VANCE HARTKE, Indiana
GALE W. MCGEE, Wyoming
PHILIP A. HART, Michigan
HOWARD W. CANNON, Nevada

EDWARD JARRETT, Chief Clerk
RALPH HORTON, Assistant Chief Clerk
GERALD GRINSTEIN, Chief Counsel
JEREMIAH J. KENNEY, Jr., Assistant Chief Counsel
WILLIAM T. BEEKS, Staff Counsel

II

CONTENTS

Page

Text of S. 1975, dated August 2, 1963---

2

Text of amendment to S. 1975, dated November 27, 1963.

5

Text of amendment to S. 1975, dated December 12, 1963.
Text of S. 2345, dated November 27, 1963--

AGENCY COMMENTS

Department of State, dated November 14, 1963.

283

Department of State, dated December 9, 1963.

283

Department of State, dated January 24, 1964.

284

Treasury Department, dated November 14, 1963.

284

Treasury Department, dated December 2, 1963.

294

Treasury Department, dated December 6, 1963.

295

Treasury Department, dated December 10, 1963.

297

Comptroller General of the United States, dated August 21, 1963..

297

Comptroller General of the United States, dated December 11, 1963. 297

Department of Justice, dated December 3, 1963.

298

Department of Justice, dated January 20, 1964.

299

Department of Justice, dated January 24, 1964.

300

Department of Commerce, dated December 3, 1963.

301

Department of Commerce, dated December 18, 1963.

302

Department of the Interior, dated November 21, 1963.

303

Department of the Interior, dated December 10, 1963.

304

Department of the Interior, dated January 23, 1964-

304

General Services Administration, dated November 13, 1963_

304

General Services Administration, dated December 12, 1963.

305

General Services Administration, dated December 12, 1963 (2).

306

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Atlas, Gerald D., M.D., c/o Shore Galleries, 3318 West Devon, Chicago, Ill. 155

Avery, Ben, secretary-treasurer, the Arizona Republic, Phoenix, Ariz., rep-

resenting Arizona State Rifle & Pistol Association.

199

Bayh, Hon. Birch, U.S. Senator from the State of Arizona, U.S. Senate,

Washington, D.C.

Beers, William H., 310 Sunset Park Drive, Prescott, Ariz., outdoor editor,

Prescott Evening Courier, also representing signators of petition circu-

lated in Prescott and Bagdad, Ariz., Prescott Sportsmen's Club and

Humboldt (Ariz.) Parent-Teacher's Association.-

255

Bennett, Hon. James V., Director, Bureau of Prisons, Department of

Justice, Washington, D.C.

99

Coggins, John W., Chief of Technical Branch, Office of Chief Counsel,

Bureau of Internal Revenue, Department of the Treasury, Washington,

D.C.

65

Craig, George N., past national commander, American Legion, 1625 K

Street NW., Washington, D.C., 20006-

82

Dingell, Hon. John D., U.S. Representative from 15th Congressional Dis-

trict, State of Michigan, House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.- 59

Dodd, Hon. Thomas J., U.S. Senator from the State of Connecticut, U.S.

Senate, Washington, D.C.-

10, 273

Field, Leslie E., representing Shore Galleries, 3318 West Devon, Chicago,

Ill.

155

Flynt, Hon. John J., Jr., U.S. Representative from the Fourth Congres-

sional District of the State of Georgia, House of Representatives, Wash-
ington, D.C..

96
Foote, Frank, section chief, Nebraska Game, Forestation, and Parks
Commission, Lincoln, Nebr.-

235

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES-Continued

Pago

Gibson, Thurman, Bagdad, Ariz...

250
Gibson, William Ġ., Post Office Box 13, Bagdad, Ariz..

253
Goodwin, B. K., first vice president, National Muzzle Loading Rifle
Association, Route 3, Box 75, Annapolis, Md...

135

Gorder, William E., M.D., Bagdad, Arie.

240

Hayden, Hon, Carl, U.S. Senator from the State of Arizona, U.S. Senate,

Washington, D.C.

197

Hickenlooper, Hon. Bourke B., U.S. Senator from the State of Iowa, U.S.

Senate, Washington, D.C.

37

Johnston, La Dow, president, Ohio Gun Collectors Association, 2001
Toledo Trust Building, Toledo, Ohio...

167

Kimball, Thomas L., executive director, National Wildlife Federation,

1412 16th Street NW., Washington, D.C.

Linford, James L., Chairman, Firearms Legislation Council, Suffolk

County Fish & Game Association, 26 Albermarle Avenue, Huntington

Station, Long Island, N.Y.

192

Lindsay, Hon. John V., U.S. Representative from the 17th Congressional

District of the State of New York, House of Representatives, Wash-
ington D.C.

229
Marley, Burr D., Post Office Box 858, Bagdad, Ariz..

241
Orth, Franklin J., executive vice president, National Rifle Association of
America, 1230 16th Street NW., Washington, D.C..

47, 48, 281
Peeler, Darrel, Box 26, Route 8, Lexington, N.C.

262
Porter, Irvine C., Alabama Bar Association, Room 301, City Federal
Building, Birmingham, Ala..

138

Reisman, Hon. Leonard E., deputy commissioner, New York City Police

Department, 240 Centre Street, New York, N.Y.

210

Rummel, Hon. Bartlett, judge, superior court of the State of Washington,
Tacoma, Wash..

120
Sargent, Raymond L., president, Texas Rifle & Pistol Association, M & M
Building, Houston, Tex..

178

Schooley, John, 1645 Market Street, Denver, Colo., former chief of police

and director of safety, city and county of Denver, Colo..

223

Steinberg, David J., 200 Paul Spring Road, Alexandria, Va..

184
Scott, Woodson D., Esq., Lord, Day & Lord, 25 Broadway, New York,
N.Y..

144

Reveles, Robert A., representing Hon. George F. Senner, U.S. Repre-

sentative from the Third Congressional District of the State of Arizona.. 240

Senner, Hon, George F., U.S. Representative from the Third Congressional

District of the State of Arizona, House of Representatives, Washington,
D.C.

240

Sikes, Hon. Robert L. F., U.S. Representative from the First Congres-

sional District of the State of Florida, House of Representatives, Wash-

ington, D.C..

91

Swift, Lloyd W., vice president, Boon & Crockett Club, c/o American

Museum of Natural History, New York, N.Y.--.

268

Vaughn, James J., Suffolk County Fish Game Association, 26 Alber-

marle Avenue, Huntington Station, Long Island, N.Y..

192

CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

DECEMBER 13, 1963

Bayh, Hon. Birch, U.S. Senator from the State of Indiana -
Dodd, Hon. Thomas J., U.S. Senator from the State of Connecticut..
Hickenlooper, Hon. Bourke B., U.S. Senator from the State of Iowa.
Orth, Mr. Franklin L., executive vice president, National Rifle Association

of America, 1230 16th Street NW., Washington, D.C..

22
10
37

47, 48

Pago

65

82

120

144

91

192

JANUARY 24, 1964

Atlas, Gerald D., M.D., c/o Shore Galleries, 3318 West Devon, Chicago, Ill.

Field, Leslie E., Shore Galleries, 3318 West Devon, Chicago, Ill..

Johnston, La Dow, Ohio Gun Collectors Association, 2001' Toledo Trust

Building, Toledo, Ohio.--.

Linford, James L., chairman, Firearms Legislation Council

, Suffolk
County Fish & Game Association, c/o 26 Albermarle Avenue, Huntington

Station, Long Island, N.Y.

Sargent, Raymond L., president, Texas Rifle & Pistol Association, M & M

Building, Houston, Tex.

Steinberg, David J., 300 Paul Spring Road, Alexandria, Va.,
Vaughn, James J., Suffolk County Fish & Game Association, 26 Albermarle

Avenue, Huntington Station, Long Island, N.Y..

JANUARY 30, 1964

Avery, Ben, secretary-treasurer, Arizona Republic, Phoenix, Ariz., rep-

resenting the Arizona State Rifle & Pistol Association..

Beers, William H., 310 Sunset Park Drive, Prescott, Ariz., outdoor editor,

Prescott Evening Courier, also representing signators of petition cir-

culated in Prescott and Bagdad, Ariz., including members of Prescott

Sportsmen's Club and the Parent Teacher Association of Humboldt,

Ariz.

Foote, Frank, section chief, Nebraska Game, Forestation, and Parks

Commission, Lincoln, Nebr.

Gibson, Thurman, Bagdad, Ariz.

Gibson, William G., Post Office Box 13, Bagdad, Ariz.-

Gorder, Dr. William E., Bagdad, Ariz.-

Hayden, Hon. Carl, U.Ś. Senator from the State of Arizona..

Lindsay, Hon. John V., U.S. Congressman from the 17th Congressional

District of the State of New York..

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