Senator CANNON. Mr. Orth has testified before the committee. Unless he has something new to add, I think he has made very clear the position of that organization.

Mr. Orth, if you have anything further to add, we would be happy to hear from you. The position of the organization is rather clear in my mind.

Mr. ORTH. Senator, the position of the organization, its elected officers and officials, has not changed in respect to the Dodd bill. Now obviously in an organization the size of NRA, with 625,000 individual members and some 400,000 members in our affiliated clubs, which represents over a million sportsmen in the United States, there are some individuals among that group who may not agree with the officers and officials. But that does not mean the NRA is not solidly behind what Senator Dodd is trying to do, namely, to stop the criminal, the mentally incompetent, the drug addict, and the habitual drunkard from obtaining arms through the mail, along with the juvenile, who is unsupervised. That is our stand, and we stay with Senator Dodd all of the way in that effort, because we feel that sportsmen in the United States who want to use guns should be able to use them for all reasons, for sporting in the field, shooting in competition, and for personal defense in their home or place of business. These things have not been infringed in the Dodd bill. And we believe therefore that the Dodd bill should be supported.

Senator CANNON. Thank you, Mr. Orth, for reviewing the position of your organization.

Senator Dodd, has your subcommittee issued a report as a result of your previous hearings?

Senator DODD. It has been distributed to the subcommittee members. They haven't finished commenting on it yet.

Senator CANNON. As soon as that is printed, would you be sure to have your staff furnish us with a copy, please?

Senator DODD. Yes, I surely will.

Senator CANNON. Thank you very much for appearing here this morning. We appreciate your views. Mr. Orth, we appreciate you restating the views of your organization.

Senator HART. Mr. Chairman, I do not know whether this is anticipated to be the last meeting or not, is it?

Senator CANNON. It is anticipated this will be the last open hearing. Senator HART. Then, Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask leave to file in the record a statement of position adopted, I understand, but I have not been officially advised, by the State bar in Michigan. My membership in the State bar does not oblige me always to agree with their positions, but I would certainly like to get the position of at least the commissioners and a standing committee of the State bar into the record. I anticipate that it will be available within a matter of a very few days.

Senator CANNON. Very well, if you submit that, it will be made a part of the record.

Senator CANNON. Thank you very much. The hearing will now stand adjourned.

(Thereupon, at 10:10 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.)

APPENDIX

AGENCY COMMENTS

DEPARTMENT OF STATE, Washington, D.C., November 14, 1963.

Hon. WARREN G. MAGNUSON,
Chairman, Committee on Commerce,

U.S. Senate.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: I am writing in reply to your letter of August 8, 1963, requesting the comments of the Department on S. 1975, a bill to amend the Federal Firearms Act.

S. 1975 would amend the first five sections of the Federal Firearms Act for the purpose of restricting the sale of mail-order handguns to juveniles and undesirable adults. While the Department finds no objections to these provisions, it is noted that the Secretary of Treasury, by the terms of the Federal Firearms Act, has responsibility for its administration. It is further noted that section 7 of S. 1975 would add a new section 10 to the Federal Firearms Act to preserve the requirements of section 414 of the Mutual Security Act of 1954, as amended, which are administered by the Secretary of State on delegation from the President.

The Department would have no objection to S. 1975 with the inclusion of section 7 to clarify the individual responsibilities of the Secretaries of the Treasury and State.

The Bureau of the Budget advises that from the standpoint of the administration's program there is no objection to the submission of this report.

If I can be of further assistance to you in this matter, please do not hesitate to let me know.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: I am writing to the response of your letter of December 2, 1963, requesting the comments of the Department on the amendments intended to be proposed by Senator Dodd to S. 1975 and on S. 2345, both bills to amend the Federal Firearms Act.

The Department advised the committee on November 14, 1963, that it would have no objection to S. 1975 with the inclusion of section 7 to clarify the individual responsibilities of the Secretaries of Treasury and State. The amendments intended to be proposed by Senator Dodd have been reviewed, and the Department finds no reason to alter its position with respect to the bill if amended as proposed.

While the Department would have no objection to the enactment of S. 2345, it would appear that S. 1975, together with the amendments intended to be proposed, would more adequately accomplish the committee's intended objectives. However, this is a matter that could be addressed more appropriately by the Treasury Department which has responsibility for the administration of the Federal Firearms Act.

The Bureau of the Budget advised that, from the standpoint of the administration's program, there is no objection to the submission of this report.

Sincerely yours,

FREDERICK G. DUTTON,

Assistant Secretary (For the Secretary of State).

DEPARTMENT OF STATE, Washington, January 24, 1964.

Hon. WARREN G. MAGNUSON,
Chairman, Committee on Commerce,
U.S. Senate.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: I am writing in response to your letter of December 13, 1963, requesting the comments of the Department on amendment No. 360 intended to be proposed by Senator Dodd to S. 1975, a bill to amend the Federal Firearms Act.

By letter dated December 9, 1963, the Department transmitted comments relative to amendment No. 335 to S. 1975. The Department has no objection to amendment No. 360 and would request that the views expressed in the December 9, 1963, letter be considered as applying equally to amendment No. 360. The Bureau of the Budget advises that from the standpoint of the administration's program there is no objection to the submission of this report.

Sincerely yours,

FREDERICK G. DUTTON,

Assistant Secretary (For the Secretary of State).

GENERAL COUNSEL,

TREASURY DEPARTMENT,

Washington, November 14, 1963.

Hon. WARREN G. MAGNUSON,

Chairman, Committee on Commerce,
U.S. Senate, Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: In your letter dated August 8, 1963, to the Secretary of the Treasury, you stated that your committee would be pleased to receive any comments the Treasury Department would care to make on the amendments to the Federal Firearms Act (ch. 18, title 15, United States Code; 52 Stat. 1250) proposed in S. 1975 (88th Cong., 1st sess.).

We understand that this bill is the result of a series of hearings conducted by the Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency of the Senate Judiciary Committee. During those hearings the problem of juveniles easily obtaining handguns through so-called mail-order deliveries across State lines was exposed. It appears that the bill is primarily designed to cope with this problem. S. 1975 would accomplish this objective through incorporating specific restrictions on interstate shipments to juveniles of handguns and gangster-type firearms subject to the National Firearms Act (ch. 53, title 26, United States Code). These restrictions would not apply to sporting-type rifles and shotguns.

Basically, these restrictions involve three elements: first, the person who orders the handgun (or gangster-type firearm) must establish his identity to the shipper by submission of a sworn statement attested to by a notary public to the effect that he is 18 years or more of age, that he is not a person prohibited by the act from receiving a firearm in interstate or foreign commerce, and that there are no provisions of law, regulations, or ordinances applicable to the locality to which the handgun or firearm will be shipped which will be violated by his receipt or possession of the handgun or firearm; second, the manufacturer or dealer shipping to a person other than a federally licensed manufacturer or dealer or to a person holding a State license to purchase a. firearm, could not ship a handgun (or gangster-type firearm) in interstate or foreign commerce in the absence of the required sworn statement, and the shipper would be required to notify the carier of the contents of the shipment; and third, the common or contract carrier transporting the handgun (or gangstertype firearm) in interstate or foreign commerce would be prohibited from delivering such handgun or firearm to any person with knowledge or with reasonable cause to believe that such person is under 18 years of age.

In addition to the provisions designed to deal with the mail-order traffic in handguns to juveniles, the bill would also amend the Federal Firearms Act in other respects in order to bring the act up to date in the light of problems. which have been experienced in the administration of the act. Detailed comment as to the nature and effect of each of the amendments is contained in a technical explanation of the bill, which is attached hereto.

The other amendments to the act contained in the bill appear to be principally designed to

(1) Increase the annual license fees to a more realistic level (for example, the present dealer fee of $1 is not adequate to cover the cost of processing the application and issuing the license).

(2) Clarify and effect needed improvements in licensing provisions of the act.

(3) Clarify the application to manufacturers of the recordkeeping provisions of the act.

(4) Eliminate firearms ammunition and small parts of firearms from the coverage of the act since it has been found impracticable to effectively administer the provisions of the act relating thereto.

(5) Clarify other language of the act and delete obsolete provisions such as references to "territories."

(6) Protect the rights of licensees, by permitting licensees under indictment to continue operations under their existing licenses until any conviction under the indictment becomes final, and by excluding anti-trust-type violations from the felony criteria applicable to the issuance of licenses and the interstate transportation and receipt of firearms.

(7) Make it clear that the Federal Firearms Act will not be construed as modifying or affecting section 414 of the Mutual Security Act of 1954 with respect to the manufacture, exportation, and importation of arms, ammunition, and implements of war.

This bill does not involve Federal registration of any type of firearm, nor does it appear to impinge upon the constitutional right of citizens to keep or bear arms.

It is the view of the Treasury Department that the provisions of S. 1975 are in the public interest and would effect needed improvements in the Federal Firearms Act. The Department, therefore, favors the enactment of S. 1975. The Bureau of the Budget has advised the Treasury Department that there is no objection from the standpoint of the administration's program to the presentation of this report.

Sincerely yours,

G. D'ANDELOT BELIN,

General Counsel.

TECHNICAL EXPLANATION OF AMENDMENTS TO THE FEDERAL FIREARMS ACT PROPOSED BY S. 1975 (88TH CONG., 1ST SESS.)

The enactment of S. 1975 (88th Cong., 1st sess.) would strengthen the Federal Firearms Act (ch. 18, title 15, United States Code; 52 Stat. 1250) by incorporating in the act specific restrictions on interstate shipments of most firearms (excluding only sporting-type rifles and shotguns) to juveniles, removing certain inconsistencies and ambiguities, deleting obsolete provisions, and simplifying administration of the act.

The administration of the Federal Frearms Act, a statute designed to control the movement of firearms in interstate and foreign commerce, is vested in the Secretary of the Treasury and is presently administered by the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division of the Internal Revenue Service. Regulations under the Federal Firearms Act are contained in part 177 of title 26, Code of Federal Regulations. That Division also administers the National Firearms Act (ch. 53 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954; 48 Stat. 1237), which provides, by use of the taxing power, for control over the manufacture, "making," transfer, and ownership of certain types of firearms such as machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, sawed-off rifles, and gadget-type weapons.

For the purpose of convenience, we are setting forth below the text of each amendment proposed in the bill, followed by an explanation of the effect of, and our comments on, the amendment. Minor technical changes to certain amendments are suggested.

Section 1 of the bill

"That the first section of the Federal Firearms Act (52 Stat. 1250) is amended to read as follows:

""That as used in this Act-'" (lines 3–5, p. 1, of the bill).

Section 1 of the act contains definitions of terms used in the act. Each proposed definition is followed by our comments thereon. Such definitions would be amended to read as follows:

"(1) The term 'person' includes an individual, partnership, association, or corporation" (lines 6-7, p. 1 of the bill).