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'licensed dealer' means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this Act.

"(8) The term 'pawnbroker' means any person whose business or occupation includes the taking or receiving, by way of pledge or pawn, of any firearm as security for the repayment of money loaned thereon.

“(9)_The term 'Secretary' or 'Secretary of the Treasury' means the Secretary of the Treasury or his delegate."

SEC. 2. Section 2 of the Federal Firearms Act is amended to read as follows: "SEC. 2. (a) It shall be unlawful for any manufacturer or dealer, except a manufacturer or dealer having a license issued under section 3 of this Act, to transport or ship any firearm in interstate commerce or to any place outside of the United States or to receive any firearm in interstate commerce or from any place outside of the United States.

"(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed manufacture or licensed dealer to transport or ship or cause to be transported or shipped any firearm in interstate commerce to any person other than a licensed manufacturer or a licensed dealer. "(c) It shall be unlawful for any person in a State or a possession of the United States (not including the Canal Zone) who is not a licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer to receive any firearm in interstate commerce or from a place outside of the United States."

SEC. 3. Section 3 of the Federal Firearms Act is amended to read as follows: "SEC. 3. (a) Any manufacturer or dealer desiring a license to transport, ship, or receive firearms in interstate commerce or import firearms into the United States shall file an application for a license under this section with the Secretary, in such form and containing such information as the Secretary shall by regulation prescribe. Each such applicant shall be required to pay a fee for obtaining such license as follows:

"(1) If a manufacturer of firearms, a fee of $50 per annum ;

“(2) If a dealer (other than a pawnbroker) in firearms, a fee of $10 per annum; or

"(3) If a pawnbroker, a fee of $50 per annum.

"(b) Upon filing by a qualified applicant of a proper application and the payment of the prescribed fee, the Secretary shall issue to such applicant the license applied for, which shall, subject to the provisions of this Act, entitle the licensee to transport, ship, and receive firearms in interstate commerce or import firearms into the United States during the period stated in the license subject to the other provisions of this Act. Except that, no license shall be issued pursuant to this Act to any applicant who is under twenty-one years of age. "(c) Each licensed manufacturer and licensed dealer shall maintain such permanent records of production, importation, shipment, and other disposal of firearms as the Secretary may by regulation prescribe."

SEC. 4. Section 4 of the Federal Firearms Act is amended to read as follows: "SEC. 4. (a) The provisions of this Act shall not apply with respect to (1) the transportation, shipment, receipt, or importation of any firearms sold or shipped to, or issued for the use of (A) the United States or any department, independent establishment, or agency thereof; (B) any State, or possession, or the District of Columbia, or any department, independent establishment, agency, or any political subdivision thereof; (C) any duly commissioned officer or agent of the United States, a State, or possession or the District of Columbia, or any political subdivision thereof; (D) any bank, public carrier, expresss, or armored-truck company organized and operating in good faith for the transportation of money and valuables, which is granted an exemption by the Secretary; (E) any research laboratory designated as such by the Secretary; or (2) the transportation, shipment, receipt, or importation of any antique or unserviceable firearm (other than a 'firearm' as defined in section 5848 (1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954) which is a curio or museum piece.

"(b) Nothing contained in this Act shall be construed to prevent shipments of firearms to institutions, organizations, or persons to whom firearms may be lawfully delivered by the Secretary of Defense or his delegate, nor to prevent the receipt or transportation of such firearms by their lawful possessors while they are engaged in military training or in competitions."

SEC. 5. (a) Subsection (b) of section 5 of the Federal Firearms Act is amended by striking out the words "or ammunition".

(b) Subsection (b) of section 5 of said Act is further amended by inserting "of 1954" immediately after "the Internal Revenue Code", and by striking out "section 2733 of such code" and inserting in lieu thereof "section 5848 of such Code".

29-119 0-64- -16

SEC. 6. The amendments made by this Act shall become effective on the first day of the second month beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act. SEC. 7. The Federal Firearms Act is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new section:

"SEC. 10. Nothing in this Act shall be construed as modifying or affecting the requirements of section 414 of the Mutual Security Act of 1954, as amended, with respect to the manufacture, exportation, and importation of arms, ammunition, and implements of war."

Mr. LINDSAY. My legislation is modeled on the Dodd bill. It provides that only an appropriately licensed manufacturer or dealer may ship or receive firearms in interstate commerce or in foreign commerce; that no manufacturer or dealer may ship firearms in interstate commerce to any person other than a licensed manufacturer or dealer and vice versa; and that no one other than a licensed manufacturer or dealer may receive firearms in interstate or foreign shipment. This would prevent the sight unseen shipment: a mail-order request for a firearm, check enclosed, with a $10 downpayment and then a shipment across State lines, sight unseen, to the person who is the would-be purchaser.

As you know, Mr. Chairman, under the present state of Federal law, almost any person can get almost any kind of a firearm. The National Firearms Act pertains to sawed-off shotguns and machineguns, and it is true that postal laws and many people don't know this and it should be stressed-postal laws do prohibit the mailing of hand guns. But by the same token, common carriers, Railway Express and so forth, as you know, Mr. Chairman, are permitted to ship in interstate commerce. So you have a problem of logic here, if nothing else, and that is why I do think that a full examination by your committee of where we stand on this whole subject and what is reasonable and what is unreasonable, is entirely warranted and I should like to congratulate you for having these hearings.

Next, license fees, as in the Dodd bill, would be raised to $50 for manufacturers, $10 for dealers, $50 for pawnbrokers, and no license should be issued to anyone under 21, which is, I think, moderate and reasonable.

A very important provision: Each licensed manufacturer and dealer is required to maintain permanent records of production, importation, shipment, and other disposal of firearms, as regulations may prescribe. Then there are the usual exceptions here for police, departments of the United States, banks, and so forth.

The main difference between this and the Dodd bill is that the Lindsay bill would prohibit any sight-unseen blind shipment across State lines from the manufacturer or dealer to an individual. It would require the would-be purchaser to go to the dealer or the manufacturer in most cases it would be the dealer. And I may say that while I would like to see this enacted into law, I would imagine the most we could expect would be provisions like in the Dodd bill. That would be a great advancement.

I certainly want to compliment Senator Dodd on his advancement of his proposal and I should like to compliment him and his office and assistants on the wonderful job they have done in persuading the Rifle - Association to, as I understand it, back the provisions of his bill. I am very optimistic, therefore, that we may see a result.

Now let me just say this, as I near the conclusion of this statement. I worked in the Department of Justice for a period of time. I was executive assistant to Attorney General Herbert Brownell. time I worked with the FBI, and with the Director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons, and my friend Mr. Bennett, who is in the hearing room today. He knows a good deal about this subject. And I was impressed with his testimony before your committee, when he summed up 35-odd years of experience by saying that almost anyone can buy a gun in this country. He said all that one needs is the price. And I don't have to recite again the case histories that have been recited in this hearing on horror cases, where the availability of firearms has directly contributed to homicide and the rate of homicide in the United States today.

J. Edgar Hoover has recently stated:

Those who claim the availability of firearms is not a factor in murders in this country are not facing reality.

And you know the figures that he cites relating to the impulsive killer. And the chairman well knows the state of the State laws on this subject.

To repeat them for the sake of emphasis, in 41 States and the District of Columbia there are no license requirements for the purchase of a firearm; only 21 States and the District of Columbia require dealers to be licensed before selling handguns at retail; only 7 States require a permit to purchase a gun; and only in New York State is a license required to carry a handgun; only in Hawaii must guns be registered; only in South Carolina is it against the law to sell a hand

gun.

I have been quite interested in the reaction to an article I wrote, which was published in this week's issue of the Saturday Evening Post, under the column called "Speak Out," entitled "Too Many People Have Guns." And my mail is pouring in at a very great rate. And I am amazed at the rapid assumptions that people make, that just because some kind of regulation is proposed, they think that they are going to be deprived of a very basic and historical, traditional right in this country to own a firearm. No legislation that I know of, State or Federal, is proposed to impinge upon that right.

Just the other day I was in a very interesting radio debate with a distinguished constituent of mine, who is connected with the National Rifle Association and on their legislative committee. Most of his argument was based on the fact that it is an ancient principle in this country-the Constitution has a provision for it, as we all know-and he cited the statement made by the former Secretary of the Army, Mr. Stahr, in saying that the rifleman in the standing Army was the backbone of the Nation's security. Well, times have changed.

I would just like to summarize by reading the statement that I made on the floor of the other body the other day on this point.

Opponents of firearms legislation have argued that stricter provisions would trespass the second amendment to the Constitution, which states that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I say that our right to "keep and bear arms" does not mean that you or I have a right to walk down the street with a bundle of hand grenades tied to our waist, or to enter a streetcar with a loaded shotgun, or to obtain a high-power rifle with a telescopic sight by mail order.

Certainly in framing gun-control laws we must think carefully about the constitutional aspects of the question. Surely there is no reason why we should prevent responsible adults or even minors from possessing licensed firearms-for self-protection, hunting, target shooting or gun collections. But it should also be apparent that the unrestricted traffic in death weapons must be stopped.

In 1787, when the second amendment was written, the rifle was the principal weapon of national defense, and it made good sense for every adult male to be able to use one.

Today, the Nation no longer depends on the citizen's weapon, nor does the citizen himself. And, most significant, the population is now densely packed into urban areas, and it is diverse and mobile. In our changed and complicated society, guns have become more dangerous, and they demand more careful use. The Constitution must be interpreted in the light of the times; protection today means the reasonable regulation of firearms-not the absence of any regulation.

This point is most important, Mr. Chairman. Even the most ardent gun collector or avid sportsman must admit that there is neither sense nor safety in the present state of this Nation's laws.

Responsible sportsmen and gun owners find their sport or hobby degraded by the greedy practices of irresponsible gun sellers and the murderous practices of irresponsible gun buyers. I cannot see how it helps bona fide hunters, gun lovers, and even the dealers and manufacturers to have a national sport become a national scandal.

Lastly, I would like to say that, even being a city boy, I count myself as a conservationist. I have sponsored conservationist legislation, and I am an enthusiastic supporter of the wilderness bill and have traveled extensively in the conserved lands of this country. I feel that those who feel strongly about conservation and guns and hunting and shooting should realize that their great love is being increasingly constricted with a swelling and growing population and with a massive expansion of the city complex.

This being the case, it seems to me they should be in the forefront to see to it that this area of their first enjoyment and love is protected and not allowed to be demeaned by the practices that unfortunately exist in the United States today.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Lindsay, that is another vote. I must leave again. Could you file your statement? This is a record vote and I must leave.

Mr. LINDSAY. I will be glad to file the statement. I would just like to finish up by saying that in my community, with the unfortunate practices of juvenile delinquents, hopped up with narcotics in some of the slum conditions in which, unfortunately, they are living, this proposed regulation of the easy possession of weapons will not trespass the constitutional rights. It will protect them.

I submit, Mr. Chairman, this Federal legislation I propose and Mr. Dodd proposes and others propose is eminently reasonable and moderate. Thank you very much.

Senator YARBOROUGH. This committee will recess. The hearings will be resumed at 2 p.m.

(Whereupon, at 1 p.m., the committee was recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

Senator YARBOROUGH. Gentlemen, we have witnesses listed here in a certain sequence. I assume that all of the witnesses have seen a copy of the witness list.

Have all of the prospective witnesses seen a copy of this mimeographed witness list? Do you know where you are scheduled to appear on that?

The reason for asking this question is this: If there were any witnesses that had a plane leaving in an hour, we could take him out of order. But if there is no witness here from out of the city that has a plane leaving in an hour or so, we will follow the sequence in which this list was prepared prior to the beginning of this hearing. Is Mr. Frank Foote, of Nebraska, here?

STATEMENT OF FRANK FOOTE, SECTION CHIEF, NEBRASKA GAME, FORESTATION, AND PARKS COMMISSION, LINCOLN, NEBR.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Foote, you may identify yourself, your residence, the official position you hold, and proceed with your testimony in your own way.

Mr. FOOTE. Thank you, Senator Yarborough.

My name is Frank Foote. My residence is Axtell, Nebr. I also live in Lincoln, Nebr., where I am employed by the Nebraska Game, Forestation, and Parks Commission, and my job title is section chief.

I am here on behalf of, and am sent by the Nebraska Game, Forestation, and Parks Commission. The commission for whom I work is a common organization found in most States in the conservation field. There happen to be seven members, appointed by the Governor and approved by the legislature, and just like school boards or other appointive or elective lay groups, set policies in the field.

And I am sure the members of the committee have similar commissions in the field of hunting and fishing and parks in their States.

My commission is concerned about the matter of firearms legislation generally, and particularly as it involves sporting arms the rights of the hunter of the future to enjoy his sport with the tools that he needs to enjoy it with. The commission adopted a resolution, which has been presented to the committee and in the interest of saving time, I see no reason to read that resolution. It should be regarded as part of my testimony.

Senator YARBOROUGH. The resolution of the Nebraska Game, Forestation, and Parks Commission is ordered printed in full in the record.

Mr. FOOTE. Thank you.

(The resolution follows:)

RESOLUTION OF THE GAME, FORESTATION, AND PARKS COMMISSION

Whereas recent tragic events have caused certain ill-advised public officials and others to search for a likely scapegoat; and

Whereas those who have continually favored stringent controls on all types of firearms now are pressing their cause before the bar of public opinion; and

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