consistent with the Constitution and the paramount law. Parsons v. Bedford, 3 Pet. 433 [28 U.S. bk. 7, L. ed. 732]; Grenada County Supervisors v. Brogden, 112 U.S. 261 [Bk. 28, L. ed. 704]; Marshall v. Grimes, 41 Miss. 27. If we yielded to this contention of the plaintiff in error we should render the sections invalid by giving them a strained construction, which would make them antagonistic to the law of Congress. We cannot attribute to the Legislature, unless compelled to do so by its plain words, a purpose to pass an Act in conflict with an Act of Congress on a subject over which Congress is given authority by the Constitution of the United States. We are therefore of opinion that fairly construed the sections of the Military Code referred to do not conflict with the laws of Congress on the subject of the militia. The plaintiff in error further insists that the organization of the Lehr und Wehr Verein as a corporate body, under the general corporation law of the State of Illinois, was in effect a license from the Governor, within the meaning of section 5 of article XI. of the Military Code, and that such corporate body fell within the exception of the same section "of students in educational institutions where military science is a part of the course of instruction." In respect to these points we have to say that they present no federal question. It is not, therefore, our province to consider or decide them. Murdock v. Memphis, 20 Wall. 590 [87 U.S. bk. 22, L. ed. 429]. All the federal questions presented by the record were rightly decided by the Supreme Court of Illinois. Judgment affirmed. JAMES H. MCKENNEY, Clerk, Sup. Court, U.S. Judge RUMMEL. In conclusion, I would like to say that I believe the Dodd bill has been supported. The Federal Firearms Act has been held constitutional already and, in my opinion, it would be better to pass something that we are sure is right and will stand up than some law that won't and then go on for several years and have nothing. So I would like to heartily endorse the fact that this regulation should go back to the States except for the Dodd bill and I think that is a sensible approach. It is a proper approach and one which is a legal approach. Now you have talked about a committee to work on a uniform law. May I say, sir, that if there is such a committee, I think the gun owners and the sportsmen should be represented on the committee and that we, as the National Rifle Association, would be very happy to furnish somebody to cooperate with that committee or have membership on it. Just in passing, I would like to say in connection with this State control, to call your attention to the statement of J. Edgar Hoover in a bulletin to all law enforcement officials which appeared in the FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin of June 1963, where Mr. Hoover says: No one blanket proposal or universal regulation will meet the needs and requirements of all communities. He was speaking of gun legislation. The numerous facets and ramifications of gun control are so varied and complex, that regulatory measures must be at State and local levels. It is only at these levels that effective enforcement efforts can be undertaken. Many communities already have local ordinances which protect the rights of society without infringing on the rights of individuals who purchase guns for protection or legitimate recreation and pleasure. I would also like to endorse that statement of Mr. Hoover relative to the fact that this should be a local question. The CHAIRMAN. As I recall, the consensus of opinion not only of the association, but others, is in agreement with what Mr. Bennett suggested and without going into detail, we ought to do what we can within the realm of our legal possibilities to back up States that do have good laws. Judge RUMMEL. I think that could be said to be true, sir. The State laws, however, do differ and conditions differ. The CHAIRMAN. The association has taken that position that we can do something to back up States that have done something or have tried to do something about this. Judge RUMMEL. Senator, our staff prepared a little booklet called "Basic Facts of Firearms Control." I don't know whether that has been filed with this committee or not. The CHAIRMAN. You may leave it with us. (The document follows:) BASIC FACTS OF FIREARMS CONTROL (FEDERAL AND STATE) (Prepared by the National Rifle Association of America, Washington, D.C.) NOTE ON THIS DIGEST PRESENTATION The information contained herein is intended as an overall view of firearms controls on the Federal and State levels. As such, this digest presents merely the basic facts without the details, exceptions, qualifications, definitions, and related matters which would be part of an extended treatment. Federal CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" (United States Constitution, Amendment II). The courts have interpreted the second amendment as imposing a limitation on the National Government only. State Thirty-five States have constitutional provisions guaranteeing the right "to keep and bear arms." Although the State of New York has no constitutional provision on this right, article II, No. 4, of its civil rights law, a statute, affirms the right in the same words as those in the second amendment to the United States Constitution. Because of the fundamental nature of this statute, it has been generally considered as being of consitutional proportions. The courts have held that the States under their general and broad police powers may regulate, within the limits of their constitutions, the possession and use of firearms in furtherance of the health, safety, and general welfare of their citizens. Federal THE POLICE POWER Since the Federal Government is one of limited or delegated powers, it does not possess a general police power as such (except in the District of Columbia and territories and possessions). Hence, when it wishes to impose some controls over firearms, it does so on the grounds of the commerce power or its power to tax, or its jurisdiction over the mails. State The general police power resides in the individual States. In the exercise of this power and in the due administration of criminal justice, the States have adopted various controls over the possession, purchase, sale, carrying, and use of firearms. Local The extent of the police power in county and municipal governments is determined by the State through general or special statutes, charters, or similar means. FEDERAL FIREARMS CONTROL The National Firearms Act of 1934, as amended This law (a) Imposes a tax and registration on the making or transfer, among other weapons, of all fully automatic firearms and all short-barrel rifles and shotguns; (b) Provides that all manufacturers and importers of, and dealers and pawnbrokers in, the foregoing kinds of firearms must pay an annual occupational tax. The Federal Firearms Act of 1938, as amended This law (a) Requires the licensing of manufacturers and importers of, and dealers in, firearms, ammunition, and components thereof; (b) Provides certain restrictions on the movements of firearms and ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce; (c) Prohibits convicted felons, persons under indictment, and fugitives from justice from shipping, transporting, or receiving firearms or ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce; (d) Prohibits the shipment, transportation, or receipt of stolen firearms or ammunition, or firearms from which the serial number has been removed, obliterated, or altered. Postal laws and regulations Concealable firearms, such as pistols or revolvers, may not be shipped through the mails, except to certain classes of persons and under certain conditions. Unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Department of State regulations governing the international traffic in arms (a) Manufacturers, exporters, and importers of firearms and ammunition or components thereof must pay an annual registration fee of $75. (b) The importation or exportation of firearms or ammunition by any person requires an import or export license. Federal Aviation Act of 1958, as amended No person, except under special authorization, may carry a deadly or dangerous weapon aboard a commercial air carrier. Unloaded firearms in baggage not accessible to the passenger while aboard the aircraft are permissible. General comment STATE FIREARMS CONTROLS The firearms laws of the various States are principally directed at concealable firearms, such as pistols or revolvers. While rifles and shotguns are included in the statutory provisions of many States, those firearms are regulated largely as to sale to certain persons (e.g., minors, aliens, or convicted felons), discharge in certain areas and use in hunting. Positive controls (a) License to possess a handgun: One State, New York. (b) Permit, or equivalent, to purchase a handgun: Nine States-Hawaii, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island, and Virginia (certain counties). (c) Waiting period between purchase and delivery of a handgun: Nine States Alabama, California, Connecticut, Indiana, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, and Tennessee. Also the District of Columbia. (d) Registration of all firearms: One State, Hawaii. (e) License to carry a handgun on or about the person: 29 States-Alabama, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming. Also the District of Columbia. (f) License to carry a handgun in a vehicle: 18 States Alabama, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, and Washington. (g) License to sell handguns at retail: 23 States-Alabama, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota (certain counties), Oregon (certain counties), Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Texas, Virginia (certain counties), Washington, and West Virginia. Also the District of Columbia. Negative controls (a) Prohibition of the manufacture or sale of handguns: One State, South Carolina. (b) Prohibition of the carrying of a handgun on the person: 21 States— Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas (as a weapon), Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Minnesota (with intent to assault), Mississippi, Missouri (in specified areas), Nebraska, New Mexico (loaded), North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee (with intent to go armed), Texas, Vermont (with intent to assault), and Wisconsin. Federal MINIMUM AGE FOR THE ACQUISITION OF FIREARMS No minimum age is specified for the various kinds of licenses under the National or Federal Firearms Act, or for the transportation, shipment, or receipt of firearms in interstate or foreign commerce. State Minimum age for the purchase, possession, receipt, or use of handguns vary from State to State. There is an even greater variance in the minimum ages that allow for the possession or handling of any firearm by a minor. The majority of States provide that a person must be at least 18 or 21 years of age in order to acquire a handgun. As to rifles and shotguns, the minimum age frequently differs from that for a handgun; and sometimes none is specified. Judge RUMMEL. I can furnish additional copies, if you wish. It is a short summary of State laws and the kind of summary that a busy person has time to read. The CHAIRMAN. If we could get 17 of them, we will give them to other members of the committee. Judge RUMMEL. We will see that they are filed with the committee members. The CHAIRMAN. We will recess for about 5 minutes. (A recess was taken.) The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. Judge, I wanted to ask this one question; if you can't answer it right now, we would like to have your opinion and that of others in the association later. Mr. Bennett, and I'm going to quote him, said on page 5 in his statement: First of all, I would recommend that the bill be amended to back up State gun laws as fully as possible. The Federal Firearms Act and S. 1975 as they now stand, do this in part, but I hope the committee will consider extending the scope of the Federal act further. This can be accomplished by amending section 2 of the bill to restrict all interstate transactions in firearms to dealers and manufacturers licensed under the Federal Firearms Act, on condition that to obtain or hold a Federal license the dealers and manufacturers must observe all local and State laws. Do you have any opinion on that? Judge RUMMEL. I think it is going a little too far to restrict all interstate shipments. Does that mean you couldn't even go hunting in another State without applying? I mean, it is a difficult thing to enforce. I believe the Dodd bill goes far enough now, and the Federal Firearms Act requires registration by dealers of all these guns that are sold. Certainly, if the mail-order business can be controlled, there is adequate control already. The CHAIRMAN. Then if you have any opinion on the suggestion of Mr. Bennett regarding increasing fees Judge RUMMEL. You mean for the dealers? The CHAIRMAN. For the dealers. Judge RUMMEL. I don't believe we opposed a reasonable fee. We certainly would oppose a tax on the ownership of guns as such-I mean an actual tax where you had to pay a license fee. The CHAIRMAN. I suppose the real purpose of the fee provision when the act was passed was to provide a records system. Judge RUMMELL. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Obviously a dollar, as Mr. Bennett points out, would hardly take care of even the administrative expense. Judge RUMMEL. I don't think that we oppose any reasonable fee. However, if the fee were unreasonable, it would be an unjust and unreasonable restriction, I believe. The CHAIRMAN. I think that is true. None of us would want anything unreasonable, but we ought to have at least a minimum to take care of the administration. However, if you have any further opinions or any of your people have any suggestions for amending section 2, we would be glad to leave the record open for it. Judge RUMMEL. All right, we will consider it, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. Now we will hear from V. K. Goodwin. Mr. Goodwin is the first vice president, National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, from Indiana. He has a short statement. We would be glad to hear from you. STATEMENT OF VAUGHN K. GOODWIN, FIRST VICE PRESIDENT, THE NATIONAL MUZZLE LOADING RIFLE ASSOCIATION, SHELBYVILLE, IND. Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. Chairman, before I start my statement I want to say one thing. Under our organization, or the NRA, had anyone brought these guns in with the bolts closed they would have been thrown off the range. The CHAIRMAN. Bolts should be open. Mr. GOODWIN. I suggest someone take a course in firearm safety. I want to give you a short background about our organization I don't think most of you know either, and then go on and give you what our feelings are with reference to any gun legislation. The National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association had a typical American beginning. It was started in February 1933, at Portsmouth, Ohio, by a handful of sportsmen who gathered from Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee, to shoot the old muzzle-loading rifles of our Nation's forebears. From this meager beginning the present National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association has grown. The platform for the association is and has remained the same since the beginning. It is dedicated to the grand sport of competitive shooting with early American muzzle loading firearms; matching promotion for the purpose of improving accuracy with these arms and to promote standard practices for competition; and last but not least to promote safety with all firearms, especially with muzzle-loading arms. Today the NMLRA numbers over 7,500 members and 148 charter clubs. It is steadily increasing in size. We have members in all |