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and justly. They do so because they have the greatest interest, because the circulation of the magazine depends very largely on the quality of its editorial material. The magazine is to-day the greatest training ground for authors in this country.

The CHAIRMAN. Since you represent all the magazines of the country, may I ask you the attitude of your association regarding the life of a copyright? At the present the copyright, so far as the author is concerned, runs for 28 years with renewal privilege for 28 years. It seems to me we could do away with the privilege of an additional 28 years and make the term 56 years from the beginning. Have you any opinion on this subject?

Mr. COULSON. The magazines are interested only in the right of first publication. The term of the copyright means very little to us. There has been a feeling, I think, on the part of some of the magazine publishers, that since so large a part of the value of the copyright in literary material naturally exhausts itself in the early years of a particular creation, it would be hard for anyone to justify any extension of the copyright term beyond the term that is traditionally established in our law. We have no interest in it.

The CHAIRMAN. Your organization would not be opposed to that recommendation if made by the Committee on Patents?

Mr. COULSON. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It would not harm your organization in any way? Mr. COULSON. It would have no effect on these early rights of first publication.

The CHAIRMAN. I learned a very interesting thing yesterday from one of the most brilliant authorities on the subject, Mr. Thorvald Solberg, former register of copyrights, who said that after the 28year period in the Copyright Office when the period could be extended, only 5 per cent of those who had copyrights availed themselves of the privilege of renewal.

Mr. COULSON. I think that is approximately correct.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, 95 per cent of those who have taken out copyrights have never availed themselves of the reissue of the copyright after 28 years.

Mr. COULSON. In relation to the total income of authors, if your committee limits the period to 56 years instead of leaving it 28 years with privilege of a 28-year period of renewal, the effect on the creators of literary material would be negligible because the earnings from literary material come during the first few years. From then on it is the unusual instance where there is substantial income.

The CHAIRMAN. Who knows what the perfection of televison might mean? Some of the old rights that are now in the sphere of television might be reserved. Some years ago, nobody dreamt what motion pictures would become. Then, you men had full right to everything, but to-day every author will speak for his dramatic, radio, moving-picture, talking-picture, and television rights, and who knows what this era will bring forth that will give the author more opportunities than in the domain of serial rights and first publication which is so rich to-day for the magazines.

The renewal period is given only to those authors who avail themselves of the right of renewal. If we make the terms of the copyright 56 years, we may be giving them some real property right that may mean something to them and to their descendants.

Is there any subject that you would to present to the committee, Mr. Coulson.

Mr. COULSON. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think the committee has been fair to you in all the requests you have made?

Mr. COULSON. This committee has always been fair to us and they have been very kind to us.

Mr. WARNER. May I call your attention to just one phase of the subject that you touched on in regard to the duration of time that the material was in the producer's hands? Mr. Waxman, editor of Pictorial Review, is here with us to-day and it might be helpful if he could talk to you from an editorial viewpoint.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be very glad to have the pleasure of listening to Mr. Waxman.

STATEMENT OF PERCY WAXMAN, EDITOR PICTORIAL REVIEW, NEW YORK CITY

Mr. WAXMAN. There may be occasions when it becomes necessary to hold the serial novel for longer than the outside world might think wise or necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. How long would that be?

Mr. WAXMAN. It is difficult to say.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose, instead of being the editor of Pictorial Review, you put yourself in the position of being an author or composer, and you present a book to the Pictorial Review. Do you think it is fair to the author to have your organization hold your book 3, 4, or 5 years for the first serial right without giving an opportunity to other customers, such as the drama, radio, television, and motion pictures, the right to produce it? It might destroy its value to hold it so long.

Some

Mr. WAXMAN. May I give you a specific instance in my experience. Some years ago we contracted with a well-known novelist to produce a serial novel for which we agreed to pay $30,000 for the first serial right. We discovered, when that material was delivered to us, it was not a satisfactory piece of work for us to put in the magazine, but we had contracted for it and we paid for it. We then found it necessary to wait for an opportunity to make use of that material. in order that we should not suffer an entire loss of $30,000. times the size of the magazine at different periods of the year varies and we sometimes publish more than one serial novel at a time, when advertising is good for the magazine and the size of the book is large. So we had to wait for an opportunity to publish that serial novel and we held it in our shop two and a half years. During that time we had a very pleasant relationship with the author who thoroughly understood the situation which we put before him, and he made no demur. But it was actually three years before we published it, and then we did so in conjunction with another serial running at that time because we did not think it was of sufficient quality to carry the magazine by itself.

Another instance that I recall is this: As Mr. Warner pointed out to you, variety is a great essential in publishing a monthly magazine and we try to vary the kind of serials we give throughout the year. On one occasion we were publishing a very good mystery

serial and at the very time we were publishing that another mystery serial was furnished us for sale, of such an excellent quality we decided to buy it. But we gave the author to understand that it would not be wise to follow one mystery serial with another, and it would be wise to have a lapse of time before doing that, and again it was nearly two years before we published that serial.

I might give you another illustration: We published the novel of Margaret Ayre Barnes, Westward Passage. We contracted for that serial to be issued at a certain time, but after the second installment had appeared in our magazine the book publishers came to us and said, "If you will permit us to publish this book at Christmas we can have a very much larger sale for it than we would have if we publish it in the middle of January, when your serial rights end." We gave them permission to publish that in December, although we were not quite finished with that serial until the month of January. The CHAIRMAN. Has an author the right to the material immediately after the serial is finished?

Mr. WAXMAN. Immediately after. As a rule, the book is published immediately after the completion of the serial, but on this occasion and on others that I remember, we have given rights to the book publisher and to the author to actually publish the book while the story was being published in the magazine.

The CHAIRMAN. To your own financial detriment?

Mr. WAXMAN. It might be and it might not be, but we try to be courteous to the publisher and the author. The relationship between authors and editors of magazines and book publishers is of the most amicable character.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Coulson, may I ask you a question just at this point?

Mr. COULSON. Certainly.

The CHAIRMAN. As the legal representative of these magazines, would you be in favor of incorporating into the new copyright law a provision which would give to magazines the right to publish the serial, but after that it would be forfeited?

Mr. COULSON. Yes.

Mr. RICH. Would that do justice to your organization?

Mr. COULSON. It would. There are certain instances where a magazine is buying pretty far ahead. After publication it is released. Before publication, however, the author and the magazine both realize that it may not be published for several years, and I think they should be allowed to contract for that.

THE CHAIRMAN. How about another important subject to magazines, that of mutilation?

Mr. WAXMAN. We do not consider it mutilation; but this is what we do: We have a clear understanding with the author or with the author's representative that a magazine has the right to edit and cut the story when it is best for publication.

The CHAIRMAN. That is all right, too, but in the case of cutting you mutilate that serial so that the author does not recognize his own child.

Mr. WAXMAN. We have never had any complaint in our shop. The CHAIRMAN. How about other shops?

Mr. WAXMAN. I am not aware of what they do.

THE CHAIRMAN. Let me ask, Colonel Coulson: Would you be in favor of putting in the law a clause allowing the publisher to edit and cut, but when it comes to changing or mutilating, that can not be done without the consent of the author?

Mr. COULSON. I would suggest the usual and conventional rights of the magazine which have always been exercised, the right to edit and prepare for first publication literary material. That, of course, should be recognized in the act and yet prevent actual distortion of material that would be prejudicial to the rights of the author; but the great use of literary material involves necessarily substantial changes in the composition of the magazine. This is not disputed except in the most unusual instances.

Regarding motion pictures, the difference in view between the author and the producer of the literary material is very marked. The CHAIRMAN. And also in the drama.

Mr. COULSON. An author who wants to sell his literary material, with a complete right in the hands of the producer to pull it apart and put it together, can do so by contract. I do not think that is any special problem in writing this act.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Waxman, you were speaking about material for publication.

Mr. WAXMAN. The proofs of what we intend publishing in the magazine are invariably sent to the author to O. K. and that author is able to see whether the material has been, in his or her opinion, mutilated. Frequently we may cut, with which the author may not agree, and that author gives us his or her view on that, and 99 cases out of 100 accede to that request.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to protect the publisher in the sense that if he takes the right that applies to him in the unwritten law of his profession, in editing a serial, that he shall not be subject to a suit for damages on the ground that the author's creation has been destroyed. That was the thought in my mind.

Mr. WAXMAN. I can give you a specific instance for the record: Years ago I was with a magazine called Everybody's Magazine. An author sold a serial to that magazine. The editor did not consider the material adequate and it was edited and cut to the best ability of the editor. The author made a complaint against the magazine, on what basis I don't remember at the present time, and threatened suit. The very next issue the editor published on one page what the magazine considered proper and on the opposite page what the author had wanted, and there was no suit.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose you had taken the privilege of editing and cutting and had put in what you thought that novel should have been. You would have subjected Everybody's Magazine to a suit if the author had contended the value of his production was destroyed.

Mr. WAPMAN. We never add words to an author's composition in our magazine. We do edit and cut, but, as I said before, the author's O. K. is on the proofs before we publish, and I know of no instance where we have published a story without the author's O. K. on the proofs.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything else that you, as an experienced editor, would like to suggest to the committee which would help us in formulating a new copyright bill?

Mr. WAXMAN. I have nothing further at this time.

STATEMENT OF COL. WILLIAM 0. TUFTS, REPRESENTING RANDMCNALLY CO., WASHINGTON, D. C.

Colonel TUFTS. I appeared here some days ago in regard to one or two phases of copyright legislation then before the committee. The CHAIRMAN. Are you interested in the subject that Mr. Coulson spoke about?

Colonel TUFTS. I am.

The CHAIRMAN. Is your organization one of those that Mr. Coulson mentioned as having these maps made up?

Colonel TUFTS. I think not, sir.

Mr. COULSON. I want to say definitely, it is not.

Colonel TUFTS. I thought that wa sthe case, because I am familiar with the situation which Mr. Coulson and Mr. Warner have presented to the committee. Our company is in a number of different lines of publishing.

The CHAIRMAN. Your company publishes maps for high schools, colleges, and scientific societies?

Colonel TUFTS. It is the largest in the whole field. We also publish children's books, banking publications, and trade magazines; so we are interested in a good many diversified fields.

The CHAIRMAN. We have tried to get the whole picture of the copyright situation and be fair to all concerned. The matter which is before us this morning in the presentation of Mr. Lucas and Mr. Warner has come to our attention. We realize that there has been no trade association in the publishing field.

Colonel TUFTS. Our company is not one of those mentioned by Mr. Lucas and Mr. Warner. I presume there are shysters in all fields and I am not referring to any particular institution or particular group of business people, but every field has its own standard of ethics in that group.

I feel that the elimination of a damage clause in the copyright act would be an invitation to photostat concerns and commercial photographers throughout the country to take advantage of every conceivable map which they might desire to use for themselves or concerns asking for their certification.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you have a statutory amount named in the law?

Colonel TUFTS. That is our view.

The CHAIRMAN. How much should be the minimum and maximum?
Colonel TUFTS. We think $250 is sufficient for ordinary purposes.
The CHAIRMAN. How about making it $100 to $500?
Colonel TUFTS. That would be satisfactory to us.

The CHAIRMAN. Subject to the judge's opinion?
Colonel TUFTS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. There are many lawyers who are willing to go in and get the minimum fee of $250; but make it lower, they won't take the case.

Colonel TUFTS. There are hundreds of photostat concerns and commercial photographers who are deterred from using abstracts of copyright material owned by map-making organizations because of the damage clause, whereas, if it were a case of proving damages, there would be litigation in hundreds of thousands of cases throughout the United States in which the effort to prove damages would

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