FIGURE 9.

Closeup of whale being towed by Avangard and clear view of Alaska coastline. Photographed by Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

The CHAIRMAN. When you say this is a big step in the right direction, I assume you are in agreement with all of us here that this is only one step?

Mr. MARVICH. This is a start. It is a building stone I think in the right direction. And I hope Congress will see fit to go a lot farther. The CHAIRMAN. And when you talk about the Continental Shelf, it seems to me we have got to make that step pretty soon, too, in order to take care of this whole matter.

Mr. MARVICH. I certainly agree with you, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. That is all.

Senator BARTLETT. What was the recent action of Governor Egan, after these whalers were sighted, Mr. Marvich?

Mr. MARVICH. We promulgated a regulation which prohibits any alien not properly admitted in the United States from fishing, commercial fishing or whaling, in State waters.

Senator BARTLETT. Was that based on existing law?

Mr. MARVICH. Yes.

Senator BARTLETT. Actually, it is not too meaningful, is it, since Alaska does not have a navy?

Mr. MARVICH. I wouldn't say it wasn't too meaningful, Senator. The fact that we don't have a navy shouldn't be a deterrent to our maintaining a firm position in this regard, and doing the best we can

with what we have. It is true that our largest vessel is 76 feet, and can make about 10 knots going downhill, with the wind pushing it. But we will do the best we can, with what we have.

Senator BARTLETT. I agree wholeheartedly with you. And I didn't intend to imply the proclamation should not have been issued. My only point was that, even so, you lack the tools that a bill such as this would provide.

Mr. MARVICH. That is quite right.

Senator BARTLETT. Now, you mentioned apprehension of Japanese vessels in the Shelikof Strait area that occurred last year.

Mr. MARVICH. Yes.

Senator BARTLETT. Isn't it a fact that that apprehension would not have taken place, could not have taken place, unless those Japanese vessels had sat right there? Did they seek to move?

Mr. MARVICH. They did not.

Senator BARTLETT. What was the incident relating to Canadian halibut fishermen?

Mr. MARVICH. This last spring or early summer a Canadian halibut fisherman was fishing just off of Duke Island. Duke Island is the large island south of Annette, and I am sure you are familiar with the area, Senator. We had no choice; he was fishing in violation of State statutes and regulations; he was cited in court in Ketchikan for lack of a vessel license, lack of a gear license, and lack of personal licenses. He first entered his plea of not guilty and later changed to guilty and paid the appropriate fines and the fish were confiscated and sold by the court and the money went into the general fund of the State of Alaska.

Senator BARTLETT. Which needed it?

Mr. MARVICH. Yes.

Senator BARTLETT. It is my opinion that the State of Alaska is doing everything it can to these trying circumstances, just as I am sure the State of Massachusetts and every other affected coastal State is. It is likewise my opinion that, try as you will, you can' do enough without Federal assistance, and we propose, if all goes well, to give you that.

Alaska is confronting a terrifically difficult situation, is it not, as a result of the intrusions of these foreign fishing fleets from particularly two nations, Japan and Russia?

Mr. MARVICH. Yes. And this, of course, as I pointed out in my brief, has caused tremendous concern among our commercial fishermen. When you realize that our population in Alaska consists of about a quarter of a million people, and of that quarter of a million, we license 16,000 people participating in our commercial fisheries. These are fishermen, mind you, not counting the shoreworkers. A sizable segment of our population is directly dependent on the resource of the sea for their livelihood.

Senator BARTLETT. This is and long has been Alaska's principal industry; has it not?

Mr. MARVICH. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. At that point, are you familiar with what proportion of the salmon and halibut catch by the Japanese bears in relation to their total fish catch? I am trying to make the contrast.

Mr. MARVICH. I don't have those figures right at hand, no But they would be insignificant, I am sure.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I will supply them. They are less than minimum. Whereas, for Alaska, this is one of the most important things or the most important thing you have.

Mr. MARVICH. That is quite correct.

The CHAIRMAN. This trouble with Japan is being caused by a very minute part of the overall fishing catch of Japan, both in salmon and halibut. It is only 1.7 percent of their exports into this country of halibut, about 3 percent of salmon, whereas their tuna amounts to 57 percent into this country, but with Alaska, this is 100 times more serious. Still, they persist in some arguments about it.

If the shoe was on the other foot, it would be a pretty different story, wouldn't it?

Mr. MARVICH. I am sure it would, sir.

Senator BARTLETT. This isn't directly related, Mr. Marvich, but certainly closely related to the problem now before us. Will you tell us something about what happened, or rather perhaps what failed to happen, in Bristol Bay this year? This is the scene, of course, as we all know of the greatest red salmon fishery in the world.

Mr. MARVICH. Well, Senator, I didn't come down prepared to discuss Bristol Bay, I am sorry.

Senator BARTLETT. Just in broad terms.

Mr. MARVICH. Well, the run didn't come up to expectations. Our catches were far, far below what we expected, as was our escapement. This has resulted in a tremendously depressed economic condition within the Bristol Bay area.

I think a person has to almost visit Bristol Bay to appreciate the seriousness of the failure of the fish run in the bay to really appreciate what the impact is to the local economy. Not only does it have an adverse impact insofar as dollars and cents in the pocketbook are concerned, for the purchase of food, clothing, fuel, and so on, but there is a sizable number of fish that are used in that area for what we call subsistence needs, basic subsistence needs. The people in the area have traditionally and historically put up salmon for food and the failure of a run such as we had this year has a very depressing effect on their economy.

We, of course, want to preserve as many of the fish as we can on the spawning beds, to insure for the perpetuation and enhancement of that run.

Senator BARTLETT. To do this, the State of Alaska expends very considerable sums and the Federal Government spends a lot of money on the high seas in scientific investigations. Is that correct?

Mr. MARVICH. That is correct. There is a very close working relation between the State of Alaska; the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the University of Washington Fisheries Research Institute. We work closely together on the research of that Bristol Bay salmon fishing.

Senator BARTLETT. By and large the people who are resident there have no other source of income, is that right?

Mr. MARVICH. This is absolutely correct, sir. There is virtually little or no other way to make a living.

Senator BARTLETT. I heard of one fisherman there this year who caught two fish. Of course, the Federal and State Government are already providing emergency foodstuffs, before winter has started. The Federal Government is involved, of course, because so many of

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the people there are what we call native blood, Eskimo, and it is going to be a hard cruel winter for them.

The records show conclusively, since the North Pacific Treaty went into effect, that about 50 percent of the salmon originating in the Bristol Bay streams and lakes and going out to sea, have been caught west of 175 west longitude, by Japanese fishermen, taking that amount of fish from Alaska fishermen, who for years and years and years before that had had exclusive use.

The CHAIRMAN. This is the lifeblood of that economy in that area, is it not?

Mr. MARVICH. That is correct, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. And several thousands of people are affected, this is the lifeblood.

Senator BARTLETT. A lot of people come up from your State to work and fish.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; do you think this is the lifeblood of the Japanese fishing economy?

Mr. MARVICH. No; I do not.

The CHAIRMAN. Why, of course not.

Senator BARTLETT. You spoke about these whaling ships coming within our territorial waters. Is this new? Has this been experienced in prior years?

Mr. MARVICH. Not to my knowledge, Senator. There hasn't been any whaling activity to speak of off Alaska's shores that I am aware of for many, many years. And the whaling interests of Alaska has cropped up since about 1959 or 1960.

There was a Canadian whaling operation that operated for a number of years and it closed down because of economic factors. I think it is probably working now. In fact, I am sure it is working now. But there has been a tremendous increase in whaling interest and in the harvest of whales in the eastern North Pacific in the last 2 or 3 years.

Senator BARTLETT. There was a conference over in London recently on whaling, and one conclusion that was reached without any great difficulty was that if whaling continues at its present level, in all of the oceans of the world, there are going to be no more whales at all soon; they are going to be gone, they will have disappeared, all will have been taken.

It is my further understanding that efforts, strenuous efforts, in which the United States participated, were made to arrive at some agreement for limiting the amount of whaling.

It is my understanding that Japan and Russia failed to subscribe to any such proposal. And my fear is that this will spread, salmon, halibut, bottom fish, every kind of fish, if indiscriminate fishing continues in all of the oceans of the world.

There aren't enough fish there to resist the pressures being exerted against them.

Mr. Marvich, the committee is grateful for your statement.

The CHAIRMAN. I was going to suggest, Mr. Chairman, that this bill has a very prophetic number, 1988. If this continues until 1988, the historians can write this date down as very significant. You won't have to come down here then at all. Our fishery will have gone by the board.

Senator BARTLETT. Yes; it will be all over.