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M: Brskan. Yes, sir.

MC: DANILLON. Now, in those instances you do pay royalties, d Interpr.ghted materials that you use?

t bienvas. Yes, and we agree with the principle of that.

TE MASION. Now, do you negotiate with the copyright **!ue of those syndicators! M: Buss. We buy the program generally from a distribu

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V. Diviflor. Can you tell me if the word "distributor”.

a r to“syndicator"? M: Lkxax. Yes. M" DANIELA N. Thank you, that's all the questions I have. V T H ER. The gentleman from California, Mr. W

M:. W:44,184. If I understand you correctly, when you are ' alar market, you can extract from an advertiser a wine of his access to that market. In to have any data showing that the copyright owner sh

Mr. Simon. Here is the dark line, the primary viewing line agus
Mr. DANIELSON. And this is from San Francisco.
Mr. Simon. That's correct, San Francisco stations.

Mr. BRFSNAN. The white area goes all the way up to Orgon, a.. east into Nevada.

Miss Da Costa advises me that, not only do the broadcaster frit San Francisco claim this coverage and therefore ultimately mabuto filter back to the copyright area--but she says also, that the syli cators will at the same time be selling programs in the Sacranta! Reno and Redding markets, also; they are selling them again to the markets. And what they are proposing to do now in the case of CATV, is to sell them a third time in many cases.

Mr. DANIELSON. Now lastly, it's my understanding that the ow!, of a copyrightable item, let's say the film of Bambi, mar all the right to use it to, say, a Boston TV station for their regular broad. cast.

Suppose that the same film has been sold by the copyright owner. leased, licensed, what have you, to a TV station in the city of New York for its use. And through cables they picked it up and disease nated the program within the city of Boston, let's sav, a month advance of the showing in the city of New York.

Does not this diminish the value of the Boston licensee in using the film?

Mr. BRESNAN. Sir, if the copyright owner-the owner of the proud uct-didn't recognize when selling that product, in this ca-, ! Bambi film to the New York station, didn't recognize that that sa would go up into the Boston area, he is a fool because the comman area of these stations, as you will see when you examine the brochures that I am going to leave with you, is clearly depicted. This is not It's no surprise-it shouldn't be a surprise because it's stated in to advertising literature how far out that station's signal goes leave of CATV.

Mr. DANIELSON. OK. Are you, sir, or any of you in your group also to tell me, or do you have any expertise, how are the negotiations carried on between a copyright owner the owner of Band, for example and the station!

I don't know anything about that. Do you advertising prople do that kind of work?

Miss Da (ost.4. Well, generally the syndicator is the one that's programming to individual stations within markets. This notitiae and take that into account, the number of homes that are desiseret to that particular station and that particular market,

Mr. DANIELSON. I think we haven word of art here. You vidi.di. cator," are they the people who sell the films, and so forth

Miss DA (OSTA. Yes, sir.
Mr. DANIELSON frontinuing). To broadcasting stations!

Mi Da Costa. There is some company that does that, aten there are some originating producers that do their own selling

Mr. DANIELLON. But in that connetion, the sale includes all ser is the copyright rovalty, that is in the package. V DicionT^. That is a total package, yes.

Mr. D.VIILAON. Now, some of the Teleprompter stations ork!! their own programs. I am sure I heard you say that.

M: Bpparar. The copyright owner negotiates with the broa !! for Wlurh he will receive for the carriage of his progra "Ktower has available to him the advertising broch

i oni, bowing the coverage area. losit borrason to believe that the copyright owner r ' kage of such material in his negotiations. I hav a' (r, there negotiations, I'm not sure what goes on there. W 1:14.01. Does anybody at the table have personal ex

MI) Comta. I don't think that anyone can really determi w of the rate they are charging, if it's just a copyright .'",or the 11e of the program. I think the syndicator est songs that will include some copyright fees. And also, in neg mit ation he will hopefully get what he feels the pro

V» Wat But at least you are representing to us as a fact O, Brassing is tard upon the the total market to be served. M u umba. That is taken into consideration, yes, sir, W: WW Now, you have experience, Miss Da Costa, 14.pronal accounts. I gather your agency does no

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V- Di Ciresa. We have one that we call a local advert

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re Well, I was thinking more about Joe's Used

INs. It vems to me that local independents are o
'g' to dealers selling their carsI don't understa
; ar iot is really appealing to those large market,
t alebi a lexal car dealer would be unwilling

of expanded coverage because it's beyond his norm 14 ye, it it likely that commercial operators

i be denied the market of their own

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Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DANIELSON. Now, in those instances you do pay royalties, do you, for the copyr:ghted materials that you use!

Mr. BRESSAN. Yes, and we agree with the principle of that.

Jr. DANTISON. low, do you negotiate with the copyright owner, or with one of those indicators!

Jir. Bærass. We buy the program generally from a distributor of the program.

Mr. DAVISON. ('an you tell me if the word “distributor" as you the most is similar to * undirator"?

Mr. BKAN. Yes.
Mr. Davut. Thank you, that's all the questions I have.
Mr. K 4INVITR. The gentleman from California, Mr. Wiggins.

Mr. W ilsm. If I understand you correctly, when you are milang time to a large market, you can putract from an advertiwr a greater fre any of his dit to that market.

The you have any data showing that the copyright owner shares in

Mr. BRISTAN. The copyright owner negotiates with the broadcaster for the fee which he will receive for the carriage of his program. The copilulit onnes his nailable to him the advertising brochures of the nation, nowing the coverakarra.

I have no ran to belies that the copyright owner wouldn't tine advantage of ih material in his negotiations. I have never wat in on the begotiation, I'm not sure what goes on these,

Mr. W ell, ** Antonis at the table have peronal e rine anti

J * Dicono Infront think that anyone can really determine what funtion of the rate they are hanging if it's poet a copinight, or just the time, or tlom 11 of the promill. I talnih in 1901 ator established 11. rilett 2.!! 11lude the topirulit from 11. ), in neguinting with the con leo wall how full 17 wat he feels the program 14

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NI KITEXMETER. The chairman will interrupt to announce t.
.541rug for a rote on the House floor.

DANILON, Ire we coming back?
HKANTEN MEIER. No, we are not coming back.

W [PABILNIN, Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that the pamj *T" pard on the table--they don't belong in our reci i die meive them for our files, for the record ?

KATLA MEIER. Yes. Any materials that the witnesses have

Tamperelamsan from Vew York, Mr. Pattison?
* Pls. Well, I had some, but we are not going to have
1: KAZN MER. On behalf of the committee, we thank you
21. Mia Da (ota, and your associates, for appearing here t
at will announce that tomorrow at 9:30 the subcomi

, first to hear briefly the news archives issue with tw
rror and then, at 10 o'clock witnesses generally supporting s
o no particularly from the broadcasting industry.

Poslat time, the subcommittee will stand adjourned.
T a rd statement of William J. Bresnan follows:1



inclined to go to the owner of a copyrighted work and buy somethie that is shown in one of these isolated areas?

What I am trying to project to you very inartfully is that it way to me there is a ditference betweeen local advertising and regiona'ari national advertising, and that to the extent that national adserts blanket an area, they deny to a copyright owner the opportunity to e his work to a local advertiser. Have I made that point clear!

Mr. RAILSBACK. Will the gentlemen yield?

Mr. RAILSBACK. Oak Park Savings and Loan carry ball games and they come into my area, and they come in with local advertisng. Of Koons.

Miss Da Costa. I'm not familiar with those

Mr. RAILSBACK. His point is if the gentleman will yield furtheryou may not always have a regional advertiser

Miss DA COSTA. Let me just explain to you how that works starting with the national advertiser. A national advertiser presumably has tional distribution, and his product can be bought armoss the country Therefore, any advertising that he buys in one market, or an aoru. lation of markets, his advertising is worth putting it on that al because his product is everywhere.

A regional advertiser has a similar situation within the region and that they have product distribution.

As far as the local, the truly local advertising that you are de ing, sir, that advertiser feels. when he is investing money on a tee vision station within his market that the medium is strong enough to get him customers, even though he pays a 10-perrent prim:um for those homes that are not potentials for him.

Mr. Wcixs. Well, perhaps that's go. Your illustration mental New York City and Oswego, I believe. I would think there is a ** sibility at least that a used car dealership in Oswego, whuch n. *** otherwise be in the market to buy a movie, is not going todo-obes that movie is being transmitted to New York City. And that to ar es tent it is true that a copyright owner is deprived of an opportur. ir to all his product in Oswego.

Mit DA COSTA. But if we examine hard research data that 14 312:1. able to us by (ounty, where we can see the signals and stationen are being viewed by the homes in the county, we see that jo perrt of a county's home views signals that are imported from a farsi # New York. And consequently the potential for that local caris tributor is 20 penent of the market.

Mr. WIGINA. Well, I would like to be extend to this hand data in which you bas your conclusion. I realize the conclusion is statei int". testimony, but suppose that you worked out the tigrin in supt of thuis and, if you have them, would make them available to the 1991. 191er Mr. Chairman. I would apprimate it.

V: Da ( ra. Sir, I did preparawlected list of counties in with I looked at the actual viewing as it is n orted or the Nielsen (a. which IS A R I ZKI mearch organization. Thus is the kind of infor mation. If you will allow me to just mention it.

Forkrample, in Onenda ('ounty, which is in the State of Weer Vitri We found that 3. . pirnt of the households viewed the SEIT 11 mention in the coure of a whole week.

I am William J. Bresnan, Senior Vice President ****!; 12:d President of our (able Division. Teleprompter is the 2"q- pjosisjoin company, having approximately twice as man *** : as the second largest company.

Jay Ricks, a partner in the firm of Hogan & Hartson po ni Da Costa, Director of Media Information and Analysis Ben a b er left is Barry P. Simon, Teleprompter's Vice Presic El.

****** swaltion on copyrigbt is straightforward. We beliet s

bouid aot be required to pay ANY copyright fee for 18 .als

**1 his wsition. It is necessary to understand a basic fact a B on a tart which makes that industry unique among

per s praighind materials. The broadcaster, unlike the mo
tam t ik piti her, does not sell a copyrighted product. What tt
** be antio of the viewers. The purchaser is the advert

p o p prind aster can deliver to the advertiser, the more tł

A: the more the advertiser pays, the more money is

:*** In pay the copyright owner.
Pa s sat in this relationship only by enlarging the audier
s e bo prIt many cases this actually increases the ad

op ** 1. to pay the cop right owner. In no case does it de
**** *** ansthing to which he is entitled.

door fitrate hy two examples.

p in ation located in a community, part of w

p ell teription is poor. Imagine also that a cable

ATE 1: tricos: (1) they can install a tall roofto

you are

up to the people of this community. The people w D

h adast by the television station, (2) they can Registe m and thereby get the benefit of the anto **** **Mo visin sistem or 131 they can do neither and

*.**prctati. As the Supreme Court has twice r are a ily identical. Since no copyright liabilit

op TV own antenna, why should there be a ** *** hint of the antenna tower erected by the

NOT lo a n wer to say that the cable television system

* print ont of providing its service for com
21 online the television set manufacturer an
*** *** with related businesses) also apply

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